The Ultime Indignity for native cast-offs.

[Thracian]

So if you're white, a former long-serving department head at a major Leicester store and you cannot get the people on the jobs panel to give you employment ahead of those that have the advantage of positive discrimination they've now lined up the ultimate indignity - you can become a prisoner of the system and dig a sodding garden.

And the same goes if you are in your late 50's and nobody wants you...

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20081202/tuk-j...ts-6323e80.html

Thank the Good Lord I have long chosen to work for myself. I would sooner commit suicide than attend some PC weighted interview that has nothing to do with ability.

And I say that with all confidence cos I've seen some of the people in action who do have jobs.

Cos in many cases they haven't got a clue.

[Jon the Hat]

So if you're white, a former long-serving department head at a major Leicester store and you cannot get the people on the jobs panel to give you employment ahead of those that have the advantage of positive discrimination they've now lined up the ultimate indignity - you can become a prisoner of the system and dig a sodding garden.

And the same goes if you are in your late 50's and nobody wants you...

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20081202/tuk-j...ts-6323e80.html

Thank the Good Lord I have long chosen to work for myself. I would sooner commit suicide than attend some PC weighted interview that has nothing to do with ability.

And I say that with all confidence cos I've seen some of the people in action who do have jobs.

Cos in many cases they haven't got a clue.

So you think people are better off sitting on their backside than doing something useful in their community? Conceptually if a few people in the situation you mention get caught up in something which actually gets the long term jobless off benefits then is it worthwhile? Or would you block anything becuase it might have an adverse impact of a small minority?

[Thracian]

So you think people are better off sitting on their backside than doing something useful in their community? Conceptually if a few people in the situation you mention get caught up in something which actually gets the long term jobless off benefits then is it worthwhile? Or would you block anything becuase it might have an adverse impact of a small minority?

Small minority - of this lot? Do me a favour.

http://www.belpernews.co.uk/latest/Jobless...p-18.4684016.jp

The example I quote is just one random person I happen to know.

Can you really believe this nation is unable to offer suitable employment to an articulate, former department head?

Well that seems to be the case. And I suppose you'll think his being white and his 50's is just coincidental. Well I don't.

And I'd imagine such people abound among those figures on unemployment if such sensitive figures can be found.

It is high time we had a Government that was prepared help restore the self-worth of these people instead of rubbing their noses literally in the dirt.

And don't be too smug pal. You'll be in your 50's before long. You'll soon learn what it's like if your job disappears and you try to get another.

[James.]

There's a recession on you know.

[Thracian]

There's a recession on you know.

You're right, but we are still admitting more and more people into our country to add the the ever increasing numbers chasing jobs, however that is likely to help.

I just hope what you say serves as comfort should you ever end up a discard. And that you enjoy your "gardening leave".

[James.]

You're right, but we are still admitting more and more people into our country to add the the ever increasing numbers chasing jobs, however that is likely to help.

I just hope what you say serves as comfort should you ever end up a discard. And that you enjoy your "gardening leave".

Given that 75% of my direct team have lost their jobs in the last month there's every chance I'll be discarded. That's the nature of the industry I work in.

I don't know why it would serve as comfort, it's a reality. But then I have enough belief in myself to think that I wouldn't have to use positive discrimination as a convenient excuse as to why I couldn't find work.

[davieG]

I was made redundant just after my 50th birthday, I then spent 2 years and hundreds of job applications including a bi-weekly visit to the job centre - result 3 replies/rejections and no acknowledgements, in 2 years the job centre offered nothing not even money .

I did eventually manage to get a part time job, but that disappeared and I was replaced by a younger person in a full-time position.

I can't claim any unemployment benefit even though I've contributed NI & tax none stop for 35 years because unwittingly and as a result of bad advice i took my occupational pension early.

10 years later and still no one is interested in employing me so I no longer bother looking for jobs and muddle along on my pension which will all but evaporate when I'm 65.

All this during a period of supposed prosperity, the trouble with these academics coming up with theories is they are just that and rarely if ever work because strangely enough people run businesses to make money not to employ people.

I've no problem with community activities for those claiming benefits but let's see the criminal element in our society fully involved and paying their dues in a useful way before these activities are foisted on those that are really trying to get a job.

I'm not bitter, a bit pissed off maybe oh and the people employed at the job centre were some of the most incompetent people I've ever come into contact with.

Rant over.

PS not as incompetent as the fool at Citibank I spent 12 minutes on the phone to today, who after I gave him my email address read back something completely different and before I could correct him put the phone down leaving me no further forward than I was the 12 minutes before. They now have one less card holder.

[Phube]

I was made redundant just after my 50th birthday, I then spent 2 years and hundreds of job applications including a bi-weekly visit to the job centre - result 3 replies/rejections and no acknowledgements, in 2 years the job centre offered nothing not even money .

I did eventually manage to get a part time job, but that disappeared and I was replaced by a younger person in a full-time position.

I can't claim any unemployment benefit even though I've contributed NI & tax none stop for 35 years because unwittingly and as a result of bad advice i took my occupational pension early.

10 years later and still no one is interested in employing me so I no longer bother looking for jobs and muddle along on my pension which will all but evaporate when I'm 65.

All this during a period of supposed prosperity, the trouble with these academics coming up with theories is they are just that and rarely if ever work because strangely enough people run businesses to make money not to employ people.

I've no problem with community activities for those claiming benefits but let's see the criminal element in our society fully involved and paying their dues in a useful way before these activities are foisted on those that are really trying to get a job.

I'm not bitter, a bit pissed off maybe oh and the people employed at the job centre were some of the most incompetent people I've ever come into contact with.

Very similar to my Dad, he was made redundant after 37 years of constant work (i.e. Tax and NI contributions), but after claiming JSA for 6 months, he was stopped outright and just had to sign on every fortnight (getting no money). Yet there are people who claim for years and years, having NEVR contributed a penny to the system...

How is this fair?

Oh and his pension was taken from him, after 30 years of contributions!!

(Luckily he got a job after a year and is still in one!)

[Jon the Hat]

Small minority - of this lot? Do me a favour.

http://www.belpernews.co.uk/latest/Jobless...p-18.4684016.jp

The example I quote is just one random person I happen to know.

Can you really believe this nation is unable to offer suitable employment to an articulate, former department head?

Well that seems to be the case. And I suppose you'll think his being white and his 50's is just coincidental. Well I don't.

And I'd imagine such people abound among those figures on unemployment if such sensitive figures can be found.

It is high time we had a Government that was prepared help restore the self-worth of these people instead of rubbing their noses literally in the dirt.

And don't be too smug pal. You'll be in your 50's before long. You'll soon learn what it's like if your job disappears and you try to get another.

I can certainly believe that in retail they are not employing managers but are employing idiots to provide alledged service on the shop floor.

By the time I hit my 50's I plan to be financially independent, in part due to having to see my Dad go through the joys of redundancy three times.

I think we will have to disagree on this, but I think that managed properley a scheme which reqruies people who claim benefits to be involved in some community work would in fact restore self worth. Make a difference. Certainly it is better than attending endless seminars on hunting for jobs. It would also mean that some people who have no skills wahtsoever can develop some, be involved in a work environment and end up with a reference.

The only problem is, this government will inevitably find a way to make it expensive, pointless and degrading. Roll on May 2010 when at least we should be able to start getting the expensive bit cut down.

[Lillehamring]

to be honest it sounds like a good idea - i didn't have chance to read the whole article, but i'm hoping that it is meant to address the workshy layabouts in their 20s and 30s - who just play the system and survive having all their bills paid for them...(if it's not i'll shut up and retract this).

a clamp down on abuse of the benefits system is long overdue.

davieG, do you remember, also, when you had been on sickness benefit, and when you were better they didn't even bother to check and you had to report your availabilty to work yourself - perhaps you should have kept on claiming

[Jon the Hat]

to be honest it sounds like a good idea - i didn't have chance to read the whole article, but i'm hoping that it is meant to address the workshy layabouts in their 20s and 30s - who just play the system and survive having all their bills paid for them...(if it's not i'll shut up and retract this).

a clamp down on abuse of the benefits system is long overdue.

davieG, do you remember, also, when you had been on sickness benefit, and when you were better they didn't even bother to check and you had to report your availabilty to work yourself - perhaps you should have kept on claiming

Agreed. Perhaps there should be a minimum period of work required before you can qualify for benefits. You would have to put in place a scheme to ensure people who leave school with no skills etc can actually go out and learn something, but then that is the solution really, and the control of benefits is just the stick to speed things along.

EDIT. The benefit of cutting payments to lazy gits being that you have cash availble to support those who like Davie G who have worked for 30 years paying their tax and NI.

[Thracian]

I was made redundant just after my 50th birthday, I then spent 2 years and hundreds of job applications including a bi-weekly visit to the job centre - result 3 replies/rejections and no acknowledgements, in 2 years the job centre offered nothing not even money .

I did eventually manage to get a part time job, but that disappeared and I was replaced by a younger person in a full-time position.

I can't claim any unemployment benefit even though I've contributed NI & tax none stop for 35 years because unwittingly and as a result of bad advice i took my occupational pension early.

10 years later and still no one is interested in employing me so I no longer bother looking for jobs and muddle along on my pension which will all but evaporate when I'm 65.

All this during a period of supposed prosperity, the trouble with these academics coming up with theories is they are just that and rarely if ever work because strangely enough people run businesses to make money not to employ people.

I've no problem with community activities for those claiming benefits but let's see the criminal element in our society fully involved and paying their dues in a useful way before these activities are foisted on those that are really trying to get a job.

I'm not bitter, a bit pissed off maybe oh and the people employed at the job centre were some of the most incompetent people I've ever come into contact with.

Rant over.

PS not as incompetent as the fool at Citibank I spent 12 minutes on the phone to today, who after I gave him my email address read back something completely different and before I could correct him put the phone down leaving me no further forward than I was the 12 minutes before. They now have one less card holder.

It does you credit that you're not bitter because I know at first hand what an utter waste of ability it is that you are one of the discarded many.

But one read of what you say enables me to rest my case completely.

Ability matters for nothing when there's social and political aspects to consider.

[davieG]

It does you credit that you're not bitter because I know at first hand what an utter waste of ability it is that you are one of the discarded many.

But one read of what you say enables me to rest my case completely.

Ability matters for nothing when their's social and political aspects to consider.

I just think the systems and peoples attitudes are anti 50s+ people.

the pension situation is a good example at that time, and maybe still is you could take your occupational pension early, companies take/took advantage of this in selecting people for redundancy, in my case there was 10 of us all just over 50, the the redundaancy package was apparently sweetened by the inclusion of the pension package, at hte time it seemed ok but no one let on about not getting any unemployment payments as result and the fact that the pension all but disappears when you reach 65.

With my applications most of them I met all the criteria, tried all over the country I can only assume my age was the common factor preventing any further progress, maybe I'm paranoid but having worked closely with an HR department (training) and observing the recruitment process, in spite of guidelines it was easy to see older people being overlooked time and again.

But we aren't unique it happens to other sections of society, women, the very young, the ugly (maybe my problems as well ), black etc, etc.

[Thracian]

I just think the systems and peoples attitudes are anti 50s+ people.

the pension situation is a good example at that time, and maybe still is you could take your occupational pension early, companies take/took advantage of this in selecting people for redundancy, in my case there was 10 of us all just over 50, the the redundaancy package was apparently sweetened by the inclusion of the pension package, at hte time it seemed ok but no one let on about not getting any unemployment payments as result and the fact that the pension all but disappears when you reach 65.

With my applications most of them I met all the criteria, tried all over the country I can only assume my age was the common factor preventing any further progress, maybe I'm paranoid but having worked closely with an HR department (training) and observing the recruitment process, in spite of guidelines it was easy to see older people being overlooked time and again.

But we aren't unique it happens to other sections of society, women, the very young, the ugly (maybe my problems as well ), black etc, etc.

Anyone who doesn't have sufficiently strong and militant voices fighting on their behalf. We have much to learn from other comminities.

In terms of unity, organisation, common aims, publicity, guarantee of protest and a few other things.

[Zingari]

it's possibly an indignity , but i doubt if it will be the ultimate one , i'm sure there's many more to come

but well said anyway thracian

[Steven]

I was made redundant just after my 50th birthday, I then spent 2 years and hundreds of job applications including a bi-weekly visit to the job centre - result 3 replies/rejections and no acknowledgements, in 2 years the job centre offered nothing not even money .

I did eventually manage to get a part time job, but that disappeared and I was replaced by a younger person in a full-time position.

I can't claim any unemployment benefit even though I've contributed NI & tax none stop for 35 years because unwittingly and as a result of bad advice i took my occupational pension early.

10 years later and still no one is interested in employing me so I no longer bother looking for jobs and muddle along on my pension which will all but evaporate when I'm 65.

All this during a period of supposed prosperity, the trouble with these academics coming up with theories is they are just that and rarely if ever work because strangely enough people run businesses to make money not to employ people.

I've no problem with community activities for those claiming benefits but let's see the criminal element in our society fully involved and paying their dues in a useful way before these activities are foisted on those that are really trying to get a job.

I'm not bitter, a bit pissed off maybe oh and the people employed at the job centre were some of the most incompetent people I've ever come into contact with.

Rant over.

PS not as incompetent as the fool at Citibank I spent 12 minutes on the phone to today, who after I gave him my email address read back something completely different and before I could correct him put the phone down leaving me no further forward than I was the 12 minutes before. They now have one less card holder.

What a pile of crap that is. Particularly as my fifties are fast approaching.

[Tabou]

Woah Woah Woah....

DavieG is over 50?!

[Daggers]

Paying people money to smoke, watch Jeremy Kyle and spend their days off their tits on cheap lager is a joke.

[Lillehamring]

Woah Woah Woah....

DavieG is over 50?!

...and married with (incredible) kids and 'barnebarn'!

[Guest]

I think we will have to disagree on this, but I think that managed properley a scheme which reqruies people who claim benefits to be involved in some community work would in fact restore self worth. Make a difference. Certainly it is better than attending endless seminars on hunting for jobs. It would also mean that some people who have no skills wahtsoever can develop some, be involved in a work environment and end up with a reference.

to be honest it sounds like a good idea - i didn't have chance to read the whole article, but i'm hoping that it is meant to address the workshy layabouts in their 20s and 30s - who just play the system and survive having all their bills paid for them...(if it's not i'll shut up and retract this).

a clamp down on abuse of the benefits system is long overdue.

I agree with both of these points.

From what I have read, it is as Val puts it. But of course, it wouldn't be like the slightly-more-right-wing elements of the media to turn it around to another anti-government critique. I would like to know how the Tories plan to go about things, because my overall impression is that they are no better than the current lot.

[Flynny]

Tories suggested this ages back.

[Jon the Hat]

I would like to know how the Tories plan to go about things, because my overall impression is that they are no better than the current lot.

While a lot of policies are not all that different I hope to see a general shift in the way things are done. For example, Labour think the way to give people on low incomes support is to create a bureaucratic Tax credit system which is very expensive to run, and makes people reliant on state funding. As we have seen this is fine until they bugger it up and ask for it back. It generally encourages people to be "gratefull" to the state for their support. A tory approach to the same problem would be more along the lines of taking less tax from low earners in the first place, thus removing the completely pointless costs asscoaited with taking it and giving it back. People then feel more in control and reliant only on themselves.

It is going to be diffcult to cut taxes, but I do expect to see a reversal of the continuous shift towards govt intereference in everything this bunch of idiots have presided over. Cancel ID cards. Slim down the government. Cap council tax (as far as possible). The fact of the matter is you could save a fortune if you have to balls to do it. 1.8Million of the jobs "created" under labour are either in or realint on the state.

I hope to see a move back towards individual responsibility, for yourself and your community. Labour's tendancy to make everything within their remit just lets everyone off the hook.

[Zingari]

this'll sort the workshy lazy buggers out

Nationwide lie detector tests to catch benefit cheats

Benefit claimants will be subjected to lie detector tests to discover if they are cheating the system in a widespread Government crackdown.

told you it wasn't the "ultimate" indignity,

and ther's plenty more where that came from , so just watch it matey

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics...fit-cheats.html

[Steven]

this'll sort the workshy lazy buggers out

Nationwide lie detector tests to catch benefit cheats

Benefit claimants will be subjected to lie detector tests to discover if they are cheating the system in a widespread Government crackdown.

told you it wasn't the "ultimate" indignity,

and ther's plenty more where that came from , so just watch it matey

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics...fit-cheats.html

There is no scientific basis for "lie dectectors" in their current format.

[Zingari]

There is no scientific basis for "lie dectectors" in their current format.

don't you watch the excellent "jeremy kyle show" ?

if that's not proof i don't know what is