How many more before the nation cries "enough"?

[Flynny]

Pubs with nice smoking facilities are gaining smokers to their bars. Its responsible for a shift in drinking patterns, not a decline.

That said, that shift could well be away from 'traditional', non-chain pubs that can't afford to put expensively maintained smoking areas in and towards chains that invest in their pubs.

Change happens and its shit to be left behind, but changing laws to encourage people to drink at pubs is never going to happen. It'll only impact negatively on other areas if they are changed, too, as Lisa pointed out.

[Ultra]

It was reported today that Wetherspoons are cutting the price of ale to just 99p/pint.

And they are also giving away £20 worth of beer vouchers to all members of CAMRA.

I don't see too many of their pubs closing. Indeed, wherever I travel they always seem to be doing a decent trade.

The question arises why other pub chains don't follow their lead.

[Thracian]

Pubs with nice smoking facilities are gaining smokers to their bars. Its responsible for a shift in drinking patterns, not a decline.

That said, that shift could well be away from 'traditional', non-chain pubs that can't afford to put expensively maintained smoking areas in and towards chains that invest in their pubs.

Change happens and its shit to be left behind, but changing laws to encourage people to drink at pubs is never going to happen. It'll only impact negatively on other areas if they are changed, too, as Lisa pointed out.

:D Not convinced about a "decline". Check the figures about pub closures and try checking em again in 12 months for confirmation.

http://www.camra.org.uk/page.aspx?o=lpwclosures

http://www.ananova.com/business/story/sm_2753129.html?menu=

No-one has talked about "encouraging " people to drink.

Just about the government loading the dice to discourage them and, in so doing, blatantly and viciously affecting a whole industry while they are about it with no prospect of them generating alternative jobs unless you count the 100,000 jobs Gormless Gordon is going to conjure up to counter the 600,000 shortly to disappear, among others!

And still one of the "Brown" shirts has the humour to suggest that I might be drunk!

Well, I hope so. Perhaps soon I can awake from my stuppor to discover that Britain 2009 is really alive, well, and ready to write another of those inspiring headlines "You've never had it so good". Ahhhhh happy days!. :beer:

[Thracian]

It was reported today that Wetherspoons are cutting the price of ale to just 99p/pint.

And they are also giving away £20 worth of beer vouchers to all members of CAMRA.

I don't see too many of their pubs closing. Indeed, wherever I travel they always seem to be doing a decent trade.

The question arises why other pub chains don't follow their lead.

:D

Good old Ultra. What splendid news. I'll be heading straight down to the Corn Exchange first thing tomorrow!

In fact I cannot believe I've got a weekday stall so close to such cheap beer.

Mind you, I can just see my customers waiting til I've had a few...

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Instead of wasting money putting irresponsible single mothers in swish houses I'd see that our University students got the education they've earned without the debts which will weigh them down for years. Going to university should be a challenge and an awakening not a constant worry about debt.

Interesting - mothers, the forever teachers of our children - you'd see them forced to work instead of bring their children up correctly. (True some that are helped do neither, but may I remind you, many of them still do and wouldn't be reported in your tabloids.)

And you're also suggesting to go back to the ways of how University's used to be - however you disagree with a large proportion of people who went to university when it was fully funded by the tax payer and sit in the labour and conservaties party!

Purhapse, being saddled with debt at some stage of life will make the then to be higher earners a little more humble, and greatful for the opportunity to go to university to better there prospects?

[Flynny]

:D Not convinced about a "decline". Check the figures about pub closures and try checking em again in 12 months for confirmation.

http://www.camra.org.uk/page.aspx?o=lpwclosures

http://www.ananova.com/business/story/sm_2753129.html?menu=

No-one has talked about "encouraging " people to drink.

Just about the government loading the dice to discourage them and, in so doing, blatantly and viciously affecting a whole industry while they are about it with no prospect of them generating alternative jobs unless you count the 100,000 jobs Gormless Gordon is going to conjure up to counter the 600,000 shortly to disappear, among others!

And still one of the "Brown" shirts has the humour to suggest that I might be drunk!

Well, I hope so. Perhaps soon I can awake from my stuppor to discover that Britain 2009 is really alive, well, and ready to write another of those inspiring headlines "You've never had it so good". Ahhhhh happy days!. :beer:

Hah, nah, but the Smoking ban is no reason for a net decline, or at least certainly not a very large proportion of it, it has to be something else.

[Hullfox]

The breathalyser, the huge tax on alcohol which pushed the price of drinks up to ridiculous proportions, the smoking ban all represent penalties on the pub trade which have eroded their trade ON TOP of other factors mentioned.

Whoever introduced the breathalyser Labour could easily have got rid of it if they thought it appropriate.

Absolutely incredible.

You come out with things like this and everything else becomes irrelevant to me.

[Guest]

Whoever introduced the breathalyser Labour could easily have got rid of it if they thought it appropriate.

Have you ever stopped to consider that it might be very appropriate?

Approaching the 2nd anniversary of the death of friend, I really wish someone had once stopped to breathalyse him. He might still be with us.

[Daggers]

• Labour have proved they are a bunch of incompetent twats.
  
• The Tories has also proved they are a bunch of incompetent twats when they were in power.
  
• The Lib-Dems continue to amaze me by the way they are a shambolic collection of incompetent twats.
  
• That's it, the rest are idiots.
  

Now, if someone can point out to me the reason why I should give a flying fuck about any of them from now on I'd be delighted to hear it. Being better than one of the other parties simply isn't an option - each one of them appears to be a self-serving collection of bellends who have no idea what it is like to work in the real world, skipping straight from public education (or Middle-class catchment area comp) to university to politics. None of them appreciate real life because the few that did forgot about it once they immersed themselves in their gravy train.

Ideologically, in the round, I am left of centre - and yet I am left amazed at the largess of our current benefits system, the state of our legal system and the half-sharp way in which business is supported. I'll not be voting in the next election unless someone has a really funny name.

[davieG]

• Labour have proved they are a bunch of incompetent twats.
  
• The Tories has also proved they are a bunch of incompetent twats when they were in power.
  
• The Lib-Dems continue to amaze me by the way they are a shambolic collection of incompetent twats.
  
• That's it, the rest are idiots.
  

Now, if someone can point out to me the reason why I should give a flying fook about any of them from now on I'd be delighted to hear it. Being better than one of the other parties simply isn't an option - each one of them appears to be a self-serving collection of bellends who have no idea what it is like to work in the real world, skipping straight from public education (or Middle-class catchment area comp) to university to politics. None of them appreciate real life because the few that did forgot about it once they immersed themselves in their gravy train.

Ideologically, in the round, I am left of centre - and yet I am left amazed at the largess of our current benefits system, the state of our legal system and the half-sharp way in which business is supported. I'll not be voting in the next election unless someone has a really funny name.

What he said!

Yours totally disillusioned.

[Thracian]

Interesting - mothers, the forever teachers of our children - you'd see them forced to work instead of bring their children up correctly. (True some that are helped do neither, but may I remind you, many of them still do and wouldn't be reported in your tabloids.)

And you're also suggesting to go back to the ways of how University's used to be - however you disagree with a large proportion of people who went to university when it was fully funded by the tax payer and sit in the labour and conservaties party!

Purhapse, being saddled with debt at some stage of life will make the then to be higher earners a little more humble, and greatful for the opportunity to go to university to better there prospects?

a) :D I never agreed with the principle of both parents going to work. It was marketed as a double-your-money ploy but I alway recognised it as a con to get two people working to earn more money but with the cost of living doubled. I've been a dealer for much of my life and I had to laugh at the cheek of it. But it worked a treat. Just like the Pied Piper's music.

b) As for women being the teachers...wishful thinking and a blanket generalisation which just doesn't stand up.

Indeed, though they do exist it is a rare woman can teach teenage lads anyway. It's quite simply a myth of our time perpetuated by leftist female politicals to fuel the notion that women should get the kids in the epidemic of child custody battles which have surged during the period of the Labour Party administration.

Yes, they're okay for French, domestic science, and RI but how many women can inspire really expressive art, live and understand music, drive properly, analyse football, spin a cricket ball, map read, survive unaided in the outback.....?

c) Since when have I argued that the only people who should go to university should be people I'd agree with when they come out?

My views might be slightly controversial on occasions but, shit, I've never had a problem with folk disagreeing with them.

d) Why do you want kids on their way through university being humble? Hell kids believe they can change the world at that age and some of em do. From the emerging of intelligence, if a kid doesn't believe in himself there's no guarantee that anyone else will. Let em shine and leave humility to people of my age who've got next to nothing left to offer anyone.

[Thracian]

Have you ever stopped to consider that it might be very appropriate?

Approaching the 2nd anniversary of the death of friend, I really wish someone had once stopped to breathalyse him. He might still be with us.

Out of respect for your friend I'm not even going to argue that one. Seat belts are a good thing too. But if someone I knew hadn't been trapped by his he'd never have died in his blazing car before anyone could get him out.

[Fosse Boy]

It was reported today that Wetherspoons are cutting the price of ale to just 99p/pint.

:w00t:

[Thracian]

Absolutely incredible.

You come out with things like this and everything else becomes irrelevant to me.

I don't suppose I'll ever get it across to you. This is not about breathalysers as such, or seat belts, speed limits, closing time, parking on double yellow lines...it is about being increasingly told how to live your life by this non-stop nannying state and having more and more decisions taken on my behalf.

You may feel it's necessary and be quite happy to be constantly compliant.

But me, I feel I'm perfectly capable of living out my natural span without government guidance thanks. And of being fairly careful with other people's lives too which is more than the hypocrites of our government are with their endless pointles wars and patients they leave for hours on trolleys until they die.

[Flynny]

Nanny statism is a good thing to get pissed off at. It's ludicrous the extent to which this government in particular feels the need to interfere. However, breathalysers are primarily about protecting safe road users and a deterrent against people who'd put them at risk, and EVEN if it was a government initiative to persecute drivers, this use would still make them worthwhile.

[Thracian]

Nanny statism is a good thing to get pissed off at. It's ludicrous the extent to which this government in particular feels the need to interfere. However, breathalysers are primarily about protecting safe road users and a deterrent against people who'd put them at risk, and EVEN if it was a government initiative to persecute drivers, this use would still make them worthwhile.

The very fact that you are happy to excuse and accept government nannying or monitoring only means you open yourself up to more and more both now and in the future.

And with this government it really has become an obsession and for reasons that they have caused in many ways.

[Ultra]

a) :D I never agreed with the principle of both parents going to work. It was marketed as a double-your-money ploy but I alway recognised it as a con to get two people working to earn more money but with the cost of living doubled. I've been a dealer for much of my life and I had to laugh at the cheek of it. But it worked a treat. Just like the Pied Piper's music.

In the past decade, with house prices shooting up quicker than smackheads on an Afghan tour, two incomes were often a necessity for many households in order to pay the mortgage.

b) As for women being the teachers...wishful thinking and a blanket generalisation which just doesn't stand up.

Indeed, though they do exist it is a rare woman can teach teenage lads anyway. It's quite simply a myth of our time perpetuated by leftist female politicals to fuel the notion that women should get the kids in the epidemic of child custody battles which have surged during the period of the Labour Party administration.

Whether you approve of it or not, women have formed the majority of the teaching profession for a long time. And there is little or no evidence of them being any less successful at it than men.

I don't study the background to child custody cases in great detail but I do know of many instances where men have refused to take their responsibilities as fathers seriously. So it's no great shock that judges, magistrates, etc tend to take the side of the mothers.

Yes, they're okay for French, domestic science, and RI but how many women can inspire really expressive art, live and understand music, drive properly, analyse football, spin a cricket ball, map read, survive unaided in the outback.....?

You'd be surprised.

Some of them can even fire a gun - as you may discover, the next time you visit the Swan and Rushes and voice the same sentiments as these..

Since when have I argued that the only people who should go to university should be people I'd agree with when they come out?

My views might be slightly controversial on occasions but, shit, I've never had a problem with folk disagreeing with them.

Just as well..

Why the bloody hell do you want kids on their way through university being humble? Hell kids believe they can change the world at that age and some of em do. From the emerging of intelligence, if a kid doesn't believe in himself there's no guarantee that anyone else will.

Absolutely. The younger generation should be motivated more through confidence than through fear.

[AoWW]

b) As for women being the teachers...wishful thinking and a blanket generalisation which just doesn't stand up.

Indeed, though they do exist it is a rare woman can teach teenage lads anyway. It's quite simply a myth of our time perpetuated by leftist female politicals to fuel the notion that women should get the kids in the epidemic of child custody battles which have surged during the period of the Labour Party administration.

Yes, they're okay for French, domestic science, and RI but how many women can inspire really expressive art, live and understand music, drive properly, analyse football, spin a cricket ball, map read, survive unaided in the outback.....?

You'd be surprised.

Some of them can even fire a gun - as you may discover, the next time you visit the Swan and Rushes and voice the same sentiments as these..

A single bullet would be too quick and, theoretically, insufficiently painful.

As for debating the points Thracian raises... I simply wouldn't waste my breath. <_<

[Thracian]

"Whether you approve of it or not, women have formed the majority of the teaching profession for a long time. And there is little or no evidence of them being any less successful at it than men."

If women represent the majority of teachers and everything I read talks about kids not being able to red andwrite, exams being dumbed down and absenteeism being rife, doesn't that tell you something?

[Katy]

If women represent the majority of teachers and everything I read talks about kids not being able to red andwrite, exams being dumbed down and absenteeism being rife, doesn't that tell you something?

No not really mate, it's easy to see everything in black and white isn't it.

[Fez of Mahrez]

If women represent the majority of teachers and everything I read talks about kids not being able to red andwrite, exams being dumbed down and absenteeism being rife, doesn't that tell you something?

Not being able to red and write?

[Thracian]

"A single bullet would be too quick and, theoretically, insufficiently painful."

There you go, responding to criticism with the very notion of violence. It really isn't the right example for a teacher. No wonder we're always at War.

[Thracian]

Not being able to red and write?

Exactly - I meant read and right.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

a) :D I never agreed with the principle of both parents going to work. It was marketed as a double-your-money ploy but I alway recognised it as a con to get two people working to earn more money but with the cost of living doubled. I've been a dealer for much of my life and I had to laugh at the cheek of it. But it worked a treat. Just like the Pied Piper's music.

b) As for women being the teachers...wishful thinking and a blanket generalisation which just doesn't stand up.

Indeed, though they do exist it is a rare woman can teach teenage lads anyway. It's quite simply a myth of our time perpetuated by leftist female politicals to fuel the notion that women should get the kids in the epidemic of child custody battles which have surged during the period of the Labour Party administration.

Yes, they're okay for French, domestic science, and RI but how many women can inspire really expressive art, live and understand music, drive properly, analyse football, spin a cricket ball, map read, survive unaided in the outback.....?

c) Since when have I argued that the only people who should go to university should be people I'd agree with when they come out?

My views might be slightly controversial on occasions but, shit, I've never had a problem with folk disagreeing with them.

d) Why do you want kids on their way through university being humble? Hell kids believe they can change the world at that age and some of em do. From the emerging of intelligence, if a kid doesn't believe in himself there's no guarantee that anyone else will. Let em shine and leave humility to people of my age who've got next to nothing left to offer anyone.

Read my post again - I did not say about women being teachers, as in schools per-say - I was saying about Mothers, who when bringing us up have a great deal to do with the teachings to us as kids that shape us as a person.

Another example of the students of yesteryear that haven't been sadled with the debt of the current lot would be the leaders of the banks. I'm sure had they known personally what it was like being in debt they proberly wouldn't have got this country into as much of a mess as it is in now.

[Alexikokopops]

How much longer can this thread go on before Foxestalk cries "enough"?