How many more before the nation cries "enough"?

[Thracian]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20081228/tuk-a...rs-6323e80.html

[Finnegan]

Cries enough and does what exactly?

[Nationwider]

Adams was certainly our manager at the time, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't him personally that called in the administrators.

[stez]

Cries enough and does what exactly?

obviously we're supposed to shop solely at shops from yester-year, who's owners and/or bosses have failed to keep up with, or predict changing consumer habits. you have to feel sorry for the staff, but i have my own family and family finances to look after first.

[Guest]

obviously we're supposed to shop solely at shops from yester-year, who's owners and/or bosses have failed to keep up with, or predict changing consumer habits. you have to feel sorry for the staff, but i have my own family and family finances to look after first.

Exactly. As sad as I was to see the demise of Woolies (my first proper Saturday job was at Woolies), it hadn't moved with the times.

[Thracian]

Cries enough and does what exactly?

The first step would be to see the back of the Marxist/Communists that have fecked the country backwards, forwards and sideways.

Pretty much anyone would stand a chance of representing an improvement.

Whether one could hope for wise and reinvigourating leadership is quite something else.

But every journey starts with the first step.

And I don't think it would take a lot to improve on the clever sod who sold half this nation's gold at just about the worst price he was ever likely to get in this new millennium - against all advice.

Or the same clever sod who has presided over this nation's lowest level of production since records began.

Or a Party which has allowed this country to waste billions of pounds that it hasn't got and cannot afford on an unwinable and often obscene war that it never had an honest mandate for in the first place.

Or a Party who has used Human Rights principles to take the piss out of hardworking people everywhere while effectively opening this country up as a state registered charity and being shafted for billions in consequence.

And, as if that's not enough they've left those same hardworking people with no jobs, no pensions, the prospect of losing their home, their dignity, their sense of worth and endless other things - unless of course they somehow avoid the PC pitfalls and hitch themselves onto the predictably ever-expanding Government payroll.

Is that enough for starters? You did ask!

[The People's Hero]

In a capitalist system, you can't keep every dead dog, lame horse and bad idea going forever.

[stez]

In a capitalist system, you can't keep every dead dog, lame horse and bad idea going forever.

unfortunately, the 'market system' now appears to mean, bailing out companies which the govenment sees fit, and allowing others to die. not really a great advert for it.

[The People's Hero]

Wish someone would bail me out.

[davieG]

The first step would be to see the back of the Marxist/Communists that have fecked the country backwards, forwards and sideways.

Pretty much anyone would stand a chance of representing an improvement.

Whether one could hope for wise and reinvigourating leadership is quite something else.

But every journey starts with the first step.

And I don't think it would take a lot to improve on the clever sod who sold half this nation's gold at just about the worst price he was ever likely to get in this new millennium - against all advice.

Or the same clever sod who has presided over this nation's lowest level of production since records began.

Or a Party which has allowed this country to waste billions of pounds that it hasn't got and cannot afford on an unwinable and often obscene war that it never had an honest mandate for in the first place.

Or a Party who has used Human Rights principles to take the piss out of hardworking people everywhere while effectively opening this country up as a state registered charity and being shafted for billions in consequence.

And, as if that's not enough they've left those same hardworking people with no jobs, no pensions, the prospect of losing their home, their dignity, their sense of worth and endless other things - unless of course they somehow avoid the PC pitfalls and hitch themselves onto the predictably ever-expanding Government payroll.

Is that enough for starters? You did ask!

Isn't the current banking fiasco the result of a free uncontrolled financial market where getting a quick buck at everyone elses expense was the prime aim. And then to expect to be bailed out by those very people they've been taking advantage of?

I don't think our current situation has anything to do with communism or marxism more to do with Labour trying it's hardest to be Tories.

They're all a bunch of self serving arseholes.

[stez]

Wish someone would bail me out.

there are ways and means, as long as you don't actually own anything of any value!

[The People's Hero]

there are ways and means, as long as you don't actually own anything of any value!

Do I own my wit - or does it own me?

[Guest]

The first step would be to see the back of the Marxist/Communists that have fecked the country backwards, forwards and sideways.

Surely a Marxist/Communist market economy wouldn't see businesses fold as they wouldn't be in competition with each other. The principle of free market economies is contrary to Marxist beliefs.

[Finnegan]

The first step would be to see the back of the Marxist/Communists that have fecked the country backwards, forwards and sideways.

... sorry... what?

[The People's Hero]

... sorry... what?

Thracnorance.

[Daggers]

Damn those Marxists and Communists from robbing me of the opportunity to buy over-priced tat for my children.

Anyway - I want snow and I want it now and I'll give my vote to the party who brings it to North Birmingham first.

Go!

[Thracian]

Exactly. As sad as I was to see the demise of Woolies (my first proper Saturday job was at Woolies), it hadn't moved with the times.

Companies have always come and gone. But the difference these days is that there's lots of them going bust and big ones which occupied significant spaces, employed a lot of people, and which, backward as you might think them, had survived for periods of up to a 100 years.

If companies that have coped for so long cannot manage today how do you seriously expect masses of new ones to prevail - and especially when it is so damned difficult to get investment finance?

It's funny how many people will defend the human rights of individuals but not give a toss about the demise of companies who employ those people and often do so much to look after their welfare.

Besides many of these companies have been forced into receivership by circumstances beyond their control but certainly not beyond the control of politicians.

In other words the level playing field of their operation suddenly developed more moguls than could be negotiated. It has affected small companies like the local butchers and the local shoemakers for years but now even the big boys are wilting.

I even wonder if it is accidental or deliberate, especially with the Government becoming our nation's principal expanding industry.

The Marxists have always seen the motherland as provider and protector and have never been comfortable with people amassing their own wealth by prudent endeavour.

And, by accident or design that seems to be the way we're heading once again with the state gaining ever greater control of property, industry and labour.

It's like watching a stealth missile come in and not being able to do a damn thing about it.

And if I'm right, and it is of course, only a theory for debate, the demise of Woolies and Adams is a sad day indeed. Just like the closing of the local butchers I mentioned. A good butcher he was. Popular and well used within the community.

[davieG]

Companies have always come and gone. But the difference these days is that there's lots of them going bust and big ones which occupied significant spaces, employed a lot of people, and which, backward as you might think them, had survived for periods of up to a 100 years.

If companies that have coped for so long cannot manage today how do you seriously expect masses of new ones to prevail - and especially when it is so damned difficult to get investment finance?

It's funny how many people will defend the human rights of individuals but not give a toss about the demise of companies who employ those people and often do so much to look after their welfare.

Besides many of these companies have been forced into receivership by circumstances beyond their control but certainly not beyond the control of politicians.

In other words the level playing field of their operation suddenly developed more moguls than could be negotiated. It has affected small companies like the local butchers and the local shoemakers for years but now even the big boys are wilting.

I even wonder if it is accidental or deliberate, especially with the Government becoming our nation's principal expanding industry.

The Marxists have always seen the motherland as provider and protector and have never been comfortable with people amassing their own wealth by prudent endeavour.

And, by accident or design that seems to be the way we're heading once again with the state gaining ever greater control of property, industry and labour.

It's like watching a stealth missile come in and not being able to do a damn thing about it.

And if I'm right, and it is of course, only a theory for debate, the demise of Woolies and Adams is a sad day indeed. Just like the closing of the local butchers I mentioned. A good butcher he was. Popular and well used within the community.

As you know I'm no labourite or tory but we've got a way to go to match the number of well known long standing businesses that disappeared under the Thatcher regime and I don't just mean the miners or steel industry. There was also little for the many people who lost their jobs at the time certainly no redundacy payments like today or the benefits backup that now exists.

I think you've got your conservative blinkers on Thrac.

[Thracian]

As you know I'm no labourite or tory but we've got a way to go to match the number of well known long standing businesses that disappeared under the Thatcher regime and I don't just mean the miners or steel industry. There was also little for the many people who lost their jobs at the time certainly no redundacy payments like today or the benefits backup that now exists.

I think you've got your conservative blinkers on Thrac.

:D It's a long time since I voted Conservative, or for anyone else.

And the situation today is far different from Thatcher's time.

From my recollection every miner I ever met got decent severence pay, not to mention medical compensation and a good many of them spent that money on paying for the houses Mrs Thatcher gave them the opportunity to buy, something Labour never wanted.

It was the biggest lift the working man ever got.

Furthermore while the mines closed the mining areas were redeveloped and were the better for it because there was never any sense in one area relying on one type of industry.

Not only that but the mineworkers never stopped complaining about what their work was doing to their health. Pneumoconiosis etc was rife. How ironic that their politicis still made them complain about the closures and the opportunity to get themselves into healthy work.

And there were alternatives. No-one would complain about the closure of Woolworths etc if there was any signs of new industry or sources of work (apart from more Government departments). But there isn't.

In Thatcher's day there were options and, furthermore the native population had no problem taking those options if they wished to, whereas nowadays they would be way down the politically correct league table and there's not much in the way of productive jobs anyway.

Perhaps you'll explain to me where the options are coming from? Cos I've heard of no great vision for a prosperous future - no great Gordon Brown plan for the re-generation and reinvigorating of Great Britain PLC.

[davieG]

It's a long time since I voted Conservative, or for anyone else.

And the situation today is far different from Thatcher's time.

From my recollection every miner I ever met got decent severence pay, not to mention medical compensation and a good many of them spent that money on paying for the houses Mrs Thatcher gave them the opportunity to buy, something Labour never wanted.

It was the biggest lift the working man ever got.

Furthermore while the mines closed the mining areas were redeveloped and were the better for it because there was never any sense in one area relying on one type of industry.

Not only that but the mineworkers never stopped complaining about what their work was doing to their health. Pneumoconiosis etc was rife. How ironic that their politicis still made them complain about the closures and the opportunity to get themselves into healthy work.

And there were alternatives. No-one would complain about the closure of Woolworths etc if there was any signs of new industry or sources of work (apart from more Government departments). But there isn't.

In Thatcher's day there were options and, furthermore the native population had no problem taking those options if they wished to, whereas nowadays they would be way down the politically correct league table and there's not much in the way of productive jobs anyway.

Perhaps you'll explain to me where the options are coming from? Cos I've heard of no great vision for a prosperous future - no great Gordon Brown plan for the re-generation and reinvigorating of Great Britain PLC.

You seemed to have missed this:

I don't just mean the miners or steel industry.

There were 1000's of companies that went into liquidation in general manufacturing, in hosiery, in light engineering and none of them got the high profile sweeteners that Thatcher had to give to the miners to cool that situation.

I didn't see to many options for them either other than they mostly ended up doing none jobs whilst all our manufacturing went abroad and has stayed there.

I don't have the answers to today's problems but I do think by and large it has been caused by money grabbing opportunist in the financial industry that we now almost entirely rely on for this countries wealth producing now that all the light industry has disappeared.

Most of those going bust are retailers who get all their goods from China which in itself is a legacy of Thatcher's regime.

I'm sure this 'marxist' government could have done more to control them, as could the right wing governments of the USA etc but I've no doubt at all that any attempts by Labour to close them in would have been met by screams from the Tories.

As I said they're pretty much all a bunch of self seeking arseholes.

[Head Honcho]

Companies have always come and gone. But the difference these days is that there's lots of them going bust and big ones which occupied significant spaces, employed a lot of people, and which, backward as you might think them, had survived for periods of up to a 100 years.

If companies that have coped for so long cannot manage today how do you seriously expect masses of new ones to prevail - and especially when it is so damned difficult to get investment finance?

It's funny how many people will defend the human rights of individuals but not give a toss about the demise of companies who employ those people and often do so much to look after their welfare.

Besides many of these companies have been forced into receivership by circumstances beyond their control but certainly not beyond the control of politicians.

In other words the level playing field of their operation suddenly developed more moguls than could be negotiated. It has affected small companies like the local butchers and the local shoemakers for years but now even the big boys are wilting.

I even wonder if it is accidental or deliberate, especially with the Government becoming our nation's principal expanding industry.

The Marxists have always seen the motherland as provider and protector and have never been comfortable with people amassing their own wealth by prudent endeavour.

And, by accident or design that seems to be the way we're heading once again with the state gaining ever greater control of property, industry and labour.

It's like watching a stealth missile come in and not being able to do a damn thing about it.

And if I'm right, and it is of course, only a theory for debate, the demise of Woolies and Adams is a sad day indeed. Just like the closing of the local butchers I mentioned. A good butcher he was. Popular and well used within the community.

I don't see everyone making such a fuss when an engineering company goes bust why should the media make such a fuss when a high street retailer goes bust?

Oh thats why! Because people like you sit up and get sucked in by all the drivel they churn out.

If your business isn't capable of riding out the recession then it's adios.

Where has all the money gone from when times were good?

[Ultra]

From my recollection every miner I ever met got decent severence pay, not to mention medical compensation and a good many of them spent that money on paying for the houses Mrs Thatcher gave them the opportunity to buy, something Labour never wanted.

Labour weren't (and aren't) opposed to council house sales as an option. The points of issue were the massive discounts offered to buyers, together with the ban on reinvesting what proceeds there were into new building. This resulted in a chronic housing shortage which will take decades to reverse, with all the social consequences that ensue from that.

Furthermore while the mines closed the mining areas were redeveloped and were the better for it because there was never any sense in one area relying on one type of industry.

Not even the Tories would come out these days with this kind of crap. As many people I know will tell you, many of those areas were left to rot. Many shops and businesses went down the tube because local communities had no money to spend in them. But none of the rabid-right papers, from which you so extensively quote, gave a flying fcuk.

Not only that but the mineworkers never stopped complaining about what their work was doing to their health. Pneumoconiosis etc was rife. How ironic that their politicis still made them complain about the closures and the opportunity to get themselves into healthy work.

There were no opportunities there, and even if there had been, the poor state of their health would have meant they'd have probably been unable to take advantage of them anyway.

In Thatcher's day there were options and, furthermore the native population had no problem taking those options if they wished to, whereas nowadays they would be way down the politically correct league table and there's not much in the way of productive jobs anyway.

Your memory is playing tricks on you. There were often more than THREE MILLION unemployed, many of them with degrees and other skills, during the Tory years. They could have been usefully employed putting their talents to productive use, but the government of the time treated them with contempt.

Perhaps you'll explain to me where the options are coming from? Cos I've heard of no great vision for a prosperous future - no great Gordon Brown plan for the re-generation and reinvigorating of Great Britain PLC.

As any economics student will tell you, booms and busts are part of the capitalist system, something New Labour and ALL of its right-wing critics conveniently ignored for a long time. Brown at least shows some signs of being able to respond to the global economic crisis, something none of the other parties appear able to do.

[stez]

Labour weren't (and aren't) opposed to council house sales as an option. The points of issue were the massive discounts offered to buyers, together with the ban on reinvesting what proceeds there were into new building. This resulted in a chronic housing shortage which will take decades to reverse, with all the social consequences that ensue from that.

Not even the Tories would come out these days with this kind of crap. As many people I know will tell you, many of those areas were left to rot. Many shops and businesses went down the tube because local communities had no money to spend in them. But none of the rabid-right papers, from which you so extensively quote, gave a flying fcuk.

There were no opportunities there, and even if there had been, the poor state of their health would have meant they'd have probably been unable to take advantage of them anyway.

Your memory is playing tricks on you. There were often more than THREE MILLION unemployed, many of them with degrees and other skills, during the Tory years. They could have been usefully employed putting their talents to productive use, but the government of the time treated them with contempt.

As any economics student will tell you, booms and busts are part of the capitalist system, something New Labour and ALL of its right-wing critics conveniently ignored for a long time. Brown at least shows some signs of being able to respond to the global economic crisis, something none of the other parties appear able to do.

a very good post!

re. the bold bit; i'd rather have vince cable in charge of the financial end of the govenment

[Daggers]

It was the biggest lift the working man ever got.

Is this part of a Python routine which never made it because the whole post seemed very comedic to me.

[Zingari]

britain is a nation of over educated workshy layabouts, illegal immigrants and single parent scroungers

that's the trouble and the sooner people start listening to enoch powell, the better