Nigel and Lloyd

[Alf Bentley]

Good to see Mr. Pearson giving Lloyd a lot of love at the end of the game this evening. I really like Pearson. I have the impression that Pearson knows what he believes and will forge ahead with that regardless of what anyone thinks - when you put that together with decent judgement, that's a pretty good combination.

As for Lloyd, quite apart from giving the impression that he needs a good cuddle (blimey, chaps, I can see it and I'm a particularly insensitive married man!), I reckons Nigel's judgement is spot on.

1) Opposing defences worry about his pace - he pushes them wide and deep, creating space for others, even if he isn't doing the business himself (as he hasn't most matches for the past 2 months, after being MOM for most matches before that). He's an important part in the balance of the team.

2) At this level, opposing teams are a bit scared and sit deep so we rarely the benefits of Lloyd's pace - particularly after he made a name for himself in the first 2 months of the season. Ironically, he may be a better player in the Championship (fingers crossed, hope we get there etc.) as we'll be back playing opposition who'll attack and be vulnerable to pace on the counter.

3) The strikers are particularly unsuited to Lloyd's play. Fryatt has many great qualities but he's not a fox-in-the-box, late run for the 2-yard tap-in. Howard doesn't have the pace or movement for that either - and plays a different, deep role. Even during some of his poorer performances recently, Lloyd has been beating his full back and getting crosses in...but nobody's been there. He is potentially a better player at Championship level against better teams than he is at this level.

[Munzie]

The Lloyd love-in...

Are you Lloyd Dyer?

[BoneDog]

I think Lloyd can only improve in the near future. He has shown the quality he has (here and at MK Dons) and I can see him becoming a top level player in the next 4 years, hopefully at Leicester.

[Collymore]

I liked Lloyd's snap shot early on in the game!

[Lovejoy]

Dons fans are all saying how they miss him .

[Thracian]

Good to see Mr. Pearson giving Lloyd a lot of love at the end of the game this evening. I really like Pearson. I have the impression that Pearson knows what he believes and will forge ahead with that regardless of what anyone thinks - when you put that together with decent judgement, that's a pretty good combination.

As for Lloyd, quite apart from giving the impression that he needs a good cuddle (blimey, chaps, I can see it and I'm a particularly insensitive married man!), I reckons Nigel's judgement is spot on.

1) Opposing defences worry about his pace - he pushes them wide and deep, creating space for others, even if he isn't doing the business himself (as he hasn't most matches for the past 2 months, after being MOM for most matches before that). He's an important part in the balance of the team.

2) At this level, opposing teams are a bit scared and sit deep so we rarely the benefits of Lloyd's pace - particularly after he made a name for himself in the first 2 months of the season. Ironically, he may be a better player in the Championship (fingers crossed, hope we get there etc.) as we'll be back playing opposition who'll attack and be vulnerable to pace on the counter.

3) The strikers are particularly unsuited to Lloyd's play. Fryatt has many great qualities but he's not a fox-in-the-box, late run for the 2-yard tap-in. Howard doesn't have the pace or movement for that either - and plays a different, deep role. Even during some of his poorer performances recently, Lloyd has been beating his full back and getting crosses in...but nobody's been there. He is potentially a better player at Championship level against better teams than he is at this level.

Nothing against the manager giving him a bit of a lift or sticking by him during a rough patch but were he Gradel or Porter there'd be calls for others to be given a chance and no mistake.

I never heard anyone say the strikers were unsuited to Gradel when he sent passes to the near post but headers were misdirected or corners in that weren't finished off.

If you are saying Dyer's a good player and deserves some slack, fair enough. But he doesn't need excuses when none would count for anyone else. I've always thought, that Dyer could do with a bit of competition but in fact the competition's kept sidelined in the main. As for Dyer's so-called pace he is not as electric as he looks. I noticed it in a pre-season friendly (Luton I believe).

Yes he has a turn of pace and enough skill to get around some defenders but the fact that he cannot get round the quick ones suggests to me that he'll find it hard to shine in the Championship. Especially if his staying power doesn't improve.

Seems to me we have three totally different players available on the left. Dyer, a beat-the-full-back-for-pace-and-cross-it type but who's not so quick, Gradel a beat-the-full-back-with-tricks-winger, who is a bit hit and miss and Porter, a pass-and-move winger who probes defences rather than gets around the back.

And Dyer gets the nod, presumably because he's the senior player, probably the highest paid of the three and the one who Pearson brought in rather than because he's necessarily he best.

Yes Dyer still beats most full-backs on occasions. But it's two or three occasions now rather than consistently throughout the match. He seems to run out of influence in the second half and that's what's causing concern rather than where he puts the ball when he does actually make some impression.

Yes, I'd have started him on the left at the beginning of the season because he was scoring goals. But it would be a lot harder decision now, although there's precious little opportunity offered to anyone who might wish to demonstrate their case.

Not that it matters of course. Dyer is perfectly good enough for us in this Division anyway. And we continue to win matches and forge ahead at the top of the League so there's really no hope for anyone else.

But the situation can't be any incentive for those on the sidelines especially when Dyer gets talked up while they never would.

[coale39]

I think he played fairly well yesterday (tv)

I think people were being a bit harsh in the ratings thread.

[TrickyTrev]

And Dyer gets the nod, presumably because he's the senior player, probably the highest paid of the three and the one who Pearson brought in rather than because he's necessarily he best.

Except it probably is because he is the best.

[Ric Flair]

Nothing against the manager giving him a bit of a lift or sticking by him during a rough patch but were he Gradel or Porter there'd be calls for others to be given a chance and no mistake.

I never heard anyone say the strikers were unsuited to Gradel when he sent passes to the near post but headers were misdirected or corners in that weren't finished off.

If you are saying Dyer's a good player and deserves some slack, fair enough. But he doesn't need excuses when none would count for anyone else. I've always thought, that Dyer could do with a bit of competition but in fact the competition's kept sidelined in the main. As for Dyer's so-called pace he is not as electric as he looks. I noticed it in a pre-season friendly (Luton I believe).

Yes he has a turn of pace and enough skill to get around some defenders but the fact that he cannot get round the quick ones suggests to me that he'll find it hard to shine in the Championship. Especially if his staying power doesn't improve.

Seems to me we have three totally different players available on the left. Dyer, a beat-the-full-back-for-pace-and-cross-it type but who's not so quick, Gradel a beat-the-full-back-with-tricks-winger, who is a bit hit and miss and Porter, a pass-and-move winger who probes defences rather than gets around the back.

And Dyer gets the nod, presumably because he's the senior player, probably the highest paid of the three and the one who Pearson brought in rather than because he's necessarily he best.

Yes Dyer still beats most full-backs on occasions. But it's two or three occasions now rather than consistently throughout the match. He seems to run out of influence in the second half and that's what's causing concern rather than where he puts the ball when he does actually make some impression.

Yes, I'd have started him on the left at the beginning of the season because he was scoring goals. But it would be a lot harder decision now, although there's precious little opportunity offered to anyone who might wish to demonstrate their case.

Not that it matters of course. Dyer is perfectly good enough for us in this Division anyway. And we continue to win matches and forge ahead at the top of the League so there's really no hope for anyone else.

But the situation can't be any incentive for those on the sidelines especially when Dyer gets talked up while they never would.

I agree with all of that. Lloyd Dyer was fantastic for us earlier in the season, but he has been dog shit for best part of a month or so. Pearson has made very few mistakes so far this season and I expect him to do the right thing regarding Dyer and that's either to stick with him and Dyer re-discovers his form quickly or to drop him and show the fringe players that they'll get their chance if players are out of form or there's injuries etc.

Come on Lloyd, do the business.

[marbelladave]

Thoughtful thread for a change.

Dyers lack of effectiveness in recent games highlights what I feel is our greatest weakness, a fixed and inflexible formation with no ideas of how to change things around when key players are out or our 4-4-2 is not getting the job done.

Whilst I feel that the management has been excellent in many areas, it is overcautious and inflexible during the games themselves. The 4-4-2 is virtually the only formation played and players are shoehorned into that system. Oakley, for example, offers no width on the right and if Gilbert does not get forward or is missing, we have nothing down that flank.

This is also apparent with the use of substitutes, they are invariably 'like for like' and I can not recall a City substitution that made a real difference, especially when really needed (Brighton, Swindon, Walsall etc).

I was exited by the team chosen for the first Palace game as the prospect of Gradel and Dyer getting forward from the flanks to support and even get past Howard is something I have wanted to see for some time. Both players provide a goal threat when they cut inside but we played so cautiously that this never even looked like happening.

This I think is the nub of the issue, neither Dyer nor Gradel have been given the licence to roam and to really get at the defense which has badly limited their effectiveness as this would really conflict with our 4-4-2 system.

In summary, I feel that both Gradel and Dyer would be hugely more effective if given free roles, but we would have to change our formation and that is not going to happen anytime soon!

[Lillehamring]

I agree with all of that. Lloyd Dyer was fantastic for us earlier in the season, but he has been dog shit for best part of a month or so. Pearson has made very few mistakes so far this season and I expect him to do the right thing regarding Dyer and that's either to stick with him and Dyer re-discovers his form quickly or to drop him and show the fringe players that they'll get their chance if players are out of form or there's injuries etc.

Come on Lloyd, do the business.

the trouble is, in the meantime, no one is getting a look in - and because he doesn't get replaced by his natural competition (MG or LP) there is nothing pushing him to improve, and to just drop him without the other two even replacing him as a sub first could damage his confidence even more.

[Alexikokopops]

Whilst I feel that the management has been excellent in many areas, it is overcautious and inflexible during the games themselves. The 4-4-2 is virtually the only formation played and players are shoehorned into that system. Oakley, for example, offers no width on the right and if Gilbert does not get forward or is missing, we have nothing down that flank.

Oakley's been playing a class above since being moved to the right

[andyh1884]

Thoughtful thread for a change.

Dyers lack of effectiveness in recent games highlights what I feel is our greatest weakness, a fixed and inflexible formation with no ideas of how to change things around when key players are out or our 4-4-2 is not getting the job done.

Whilst I feel that the management has been excellent in many areas, it is overcautious and inflexible during the games themselves. The 4-4-2 is virtually the only formation played and players are shoehorned into that system. Oakley, for example, offers no width on the right and if Gilbert does not get forward or is missing, we have nothing down that flank.

This is also apparent with the use of substitutes, they are invariably 'like for like' and I can not recall a City substitution that made a real difference, especially when really needed (Brighton, Swindon, Walsall etc).

I was exited by the team chosen for the first Palace game as the prospect of Gradel and Dyer getting forward from the flanks to support and even get past Howard is something I have wanted to see for some time. Both players provide a goal threat when they cut inside but we played so cautiously that this never even looked like happening.

This I think is the nub of the issue, neither Dyer nor Gradel have been given the licence to roam and to really get at the defense which has badly limited their effectiveness as this would really conflict with our 4-4-2 system.

In summary, I feel that both Gradel and Dyer would be hugely more effective if given free roles, but we would have to change our formation and that is not going to happen anytime soon!

Whilst I understand what you're saying about a rigid formation, why change it? We've won almost 70% of our league games this season, dropped just 18 points in 25 games and scored more goals than all but one of the sides in our division. I'd hardly call those statistics the result of being 'over-cautious'. 4-4-2 has, invariably, got the job done.

There have been very few games where we've needed to do anything other than like-for-like substitutions, we've generally been ahead for the final third or quarter of matches & so it's mainly been a case of giving people a breather.

Also, as Alex says, Oakley has been excellent on the right wing

[marbelladave]

Oakley's been playing a class above since being moved to the right

Quite true, But not as a wide player! He plays more as an inside right, for those of you who remember such a thing!

Well as Oakley has played, without Gilbert we have offered little wide right and looked lopsided as a result. Also I do not think that this has helped Dyer.

[Ric Flair]

Quite true, But not as a wide player! He plays more as an inside right, for those of you who remember such a thing!

Well as Oakley has played, without Gilbert we have offered little wide right and looked lopsided as a result. Also I do not think that this has helped Dyer.

You are right there, since the transformation of our midfield, Dyer has been poor and not seen as much of the ball or space to hurt teams. But, our midfield is a lot more stronger now and i'd not want to change it too much as Davies, King and Oakley have been superb for the majority of games since.

[marbelladave]

Whilst I understand what you're saying about a rigid formation, why change it? We've won almost 70% of our league games this season, dropped just 18 points in 25 games and scored more goals than all but one of the sides in our division. I'd hardly call those statistics the result of being 'over-cautious'. 4-4-2 has, invariably, got the job done.

There have been very few games where we've needed to do anything other than like-for-like substitutions, we've generally been ahead for the final third or quarter of matches & so it's mainly been a case of giving people a breather.

Also, as Alex says, Oakley has been excellent on the right wing

All true enough, but to my mind shortsighted. We have just lost our best defender and were Fryatt or Howard to get injured or should Fryatt fall into a bout of 'New Contract lethargy', we need options.

Also we need to be better if we are to do much in the Championship, and i think we have the players who can do that!

Just give them a chance.

[Alexikokopops]

Quite true, But not as a wide player! He plays more as an inside right, for those of you who remember such a thing!

Well as Oakley has played, without Gilbert we have offered little wide right and looked lopsided as a result. Also I do not think that this has helped Dyer.

But it has resulted in Andy King playing a lot better, the introduction of Mark Davies who's looked a class above, and some thoroughly commanding performances. A narrow formation works if you've got the quality in the centre of the park, but I agree that with Dyer on teh other wing it is a bit lopsided and it may be a cause of his recent perform.

Let's just Maxi on the left, get him cutting inside, use Mattock and Gilbert to provide the width and Robert is your mother's brother. We'll be promoted this time next week. I should definitely be manager

[marbelladave]

You are right there, since the transformation of our midfield, Dyer has been poor and not seen as much of the ball or space to hurt teams. But, our midfield is a lot more stronger now and i'd not want to change it too much as Davies, King and Oakley have been superb for the majority of games since.

So why not play them as a midfield 3, with Dyer and/or Gradel given free roles further forward alongside Fryatt and/or Howard?

For those of you who think we are doing well enough;

Football teams are dynamic objects, they do not stand still, they improve or they get worse, you have to keep trying to get better!

[Number 6]

I too would like to see Gradel and Lloyd playing down each flank at some point, but as people have said Oakley has been playing well so there is no need to take him out. Dyer set his standards very high at the beginning of the season and now we long to see that player again. I don't think he did too badly against Yeovil to be honest (mostly in the first half), and if the cross had come in earlier to him he may have had a goal instead of volleying narrowly wide (a good effort I thought). I love what Maxi can do when at his best and see no reason why he shouldn't at least be given some sub opportunities to show what he can do. I guess it's easier to stick to a winning formula.

[orod]

hahaha

Are you Lloyd Dyer?

[Simi]

Quite true, But not as a wide player! He plays more as an inside right, for those of you who remember such a thing!

Well as Oakley has played, without Gilbert we have offered little wide right and looked lopsided as a result. Also I do not think that this has helped Dyer.

True to some extent, but I reckon the move has improved us more than it has been a hinderence.

Oakley has scored on a decent enough basis whilst Dyer's goals have dried up. Perhaps now would be the perfect chance to get Porter involved. Although Pearson doesn't seem keen.

Dyer gives us direct pace down the wing, something Oakley doesn't. Whoever went to or watched the game the other night could clearly see he's still doing this.

He's ok at the moment for me, although I wouldn't be against switching it.