Is the moon a giant space station...?

[Dr The Singh]

I'm not talking about 2014 or any meteor. Someone else asked if I was talking about the Mayan thing and I said no.

The Youtube videos I watch about this stuff are lectures that professors at Harvard and other places have done. I only watch them on youtube cos someone uploads them on there. I'm not getting my info from youtube vids of people farting.

How is it talking out of my udders when I'm just repeating what these professors and scientists say? The fact is that the earths rotation is slowing down and when it gets to a certain speed other factors come into play because of the mass/weight etc. of the earth and the gravitational pull of other bodies. I have done plenty of research on this kind of stuff and I am clever enough to know which people are talking with knowledge.

Mate, can you tell me which Harvard professor confirmed which sura in the Koran in DETAIL, in a scientific manner, with no supposition, or vagueness?? And relating to one of your previous wonderous Koran revelations, about the Koran being unchanged since it's conception, further being vilified by me...remember??? You do....., you actually had the audacity to state that the Encyclopedia Brittanica confirmed this and I had shown you what was actually written, which totally contradicted what you said, making you look like a fool!!!

And what was your response, "i watched it in a you tube video" , I wonder who that professor was .

Mate, I have a scientific background, I have a Master in Chemistry, and I have been fortunate to have many a discussion of those that say there religion is scientific, and to cut things short none of them could proof it!!! I find there findings to be very vague, and assuming, infact they cannot be tested with the rules of science. Yes, these religious notations give wonderful observations of phenomena, but what I have found is that these people try to fit a scientific theory or notation into that religious observation, no matter how limited or quantative. Worse still they will pick a theory (remember theory is not fact) and make out it is definite

[Dr The Singh]

Religion and science do go hand in hand. The problem is that most religious texts have been altered so much that they sound ridiculous.

I don't know of any scientific research that blows the idea of a Creator out of the window? Most of the top scientists who work on dna have said that the codes in dna actually point to an intelligent design in all of us.

If you look at the Qur'an there are alot of verses in there about things that scientists have just discovered in the last 20-40 years. Verses about barriers in the seas that are invisible to the human eye for example. There is a verse about how there is a barrier in between two seas that each sea cannot transgress (i.e Atlantic/Pacific or any others that join). And recently science has discovered that each seas water is a different density to the next. This density makes it impossible for Atlantic sea water to move into Pacific sea water for example. They bounce against eachother but don't actually mix.

Another verse is something along these lines, "Have you not seen how the universe was once one entity and then We seperated it." This seems rather like what people call the Big Bang to me.

There are plenty more verses along similar lines.

And all the original religious books (before they were changed) tell us to have scientific minds so I think that the two do go together.

To you maybe, but to the scientific world and some one with abit of common sense would say that was a very vague observation or assumption, it gives not scientific value at all. Infact nostradamus on a high gave alot more insight, maybe he should have been a prophet!!

There's load of literature that would say otherwise!! And how is sperm produced in the koran my friend, that observation of one being produced in the spine, isn't quite accurate is it???

ANyway, enough ot this nonsense, my challenge to you El Empty is to find a quranic statement that is pure scientific and acan be quantitively and qualitively proved by science and scientific research, NOT an vague observation!!!

[Number 6]

Other interesting space activity.

[Edmund]

Mate, can you tell me which Harvard professor confirmed which sura in the Koran in DETAIL, in a scientific manner, with no supposition, or vagueness?? And relating to one of your previous wonderous Koran revelations, about the Koran being unchanged since it's conception, further being vilified by me...remember??? You do....., you actually had the audacity to state that the Encyclopedia Brittanica confirmed this and I had shown you what was actually written, which totally contradicted what you said, making you look like a fool!!!

And what was your response, "i watched it in a you tube video" , I wonder who that professor was .

Mate, I have a scientific background, I have a Master in Chemistry, and I have been fortunate to have many a discussion of those that say there religion is scientific, and to cut things short none of them could proof it!!! I find there findings to be very vague, and assuming, infact they cannot be tested with the rules of science. Yes, these religious notations give wonderful observations of phenomena, but what I have found is that these people try to fit a scientific theory or notation into that religious observation, no matter how limited or quantative. Worse still they will pick a theory (remember theory is not fact) and make out it is definite

To you maybe, but to the scientific world and some one with abit of common sense would say that was a very vague observation or assumption, it gives not scientific value at all. Infact nostradamus on a high gave alot more insight, maybe he should have been a prophet!!

There's load of literature that would say otherwise!! And how is sperm produced in the koran my friend, that observation of one being produced in the spine, isn't quite accurate is it???

ANyway, enough ot this nonsense, my challenge to you El Empty is to find a quranic statement that is pure scientific and acan be quantitively and qualitively proved by science and scientific research, NOT an vague observation!!!

[BoneDog]

And how is sperm produced in the koran my friend, that observation of one being produced in the spine, isn't quite accurate is it???

ANyway, enough ot this nonsense, my challenge to you El Empty is to find a quranic statement that is pure scientific and acan be quantitively and qualitively proved by science and scientific research, NOT an vague observation!!!

It doesn't say sperm is 'produced' in the spine. That has been proved many times but you obviously pick and choose which reports you read. You are reading an English? translation of this verse. And most people know that in Qur'anic Arabic there are alot of words which cannot be translated simply into English. I can see it is not worth talking to you about anything to do with Islam cos you seem to have a bit of prejudice towards it? Forgive me if I'm wrong.

I think a verse about unseen barriers in the seas are enough when science has just recently discovered these barriers. Like I said, there are more verses though.

[BoneDog]

Mate, can you tell me which Harvard professor confirmed which sura in the Koran in DETAIL, in a scientific manner, with no supposition, or vagueness??

I didn't say a Harvard professor confirmed a Koran verse. I'm sure that I said I've seen them doing lectures talking about how the earth is slowing down its rotation didn't I?

And how many times do I have to say that these videos I watch on youtube are not just some twat with a webcam, they are lectures at universities and other places by top professors and scientists. You can watch most things there, discovery channel programmes etc. Just because I choose to look for them makes it no different to watching them 'live' at wherever they take place.

[BoneDog]

Mate, I have a scientific background, I have a Master in Chemistry, and I have been fortunate to have many a discussion of those that say there religion is scientific, and to cut things short none of them could proof it!!! I find there findings to be very vague, and assuming, infact they cannot be tested with the rules of science.

You are not talking to the right people then. I have seen plenty of scientists explaining verses in detail and how they fit in with modern science. Let's not forget also that many scientific 'facts' get demolished after a decade or two. Not all, but many of them. Science can never have all the answers.

[Edmund]

I think a verse about unseen barriers in the seas are enough when science has just recently discovered these barriers. Like I said, there are more verses though.

We seem to be going round in circles here. These so called barriers have always been visible to the naked eye so they were obviously going to know that they existed. The difference is they said it was down to religion where in actual fact scientists have explained the real reason why (one river has more sediment from the hills). Look at this picture of the amazon below, it is clearly visible.

It's like saying the greeks had a verse about magical white pillows in the sky. We now know that they are clouds!!!

[Dr The Singh]

It doesn't say sperm is 'produced' in the spine. That has been proved many times but you obviously pick and choose which reports you read. You are reading an English? translation of this verse. And most people know that in Qur'anic Arabic there are alot of words which cannot be translated simply into English. I can see it is not worth talking to you about anything to do with Islam cos you seem to have a bit of prejudice towards it? Forgive me if I'm wrong.

I think a verse about unseen barriers in the seas are enough when science has just recently discovered these barriers. Like I said, there are more verses though.

Sorry Empty, the Koran says sperm was produced between the backbone and ribs, and that's of a pro islamic site, funnily enough the site goes onto say 'some scientist believe the testes to develop from this region' as an answer to this conundrum, but fails to mention which scientist or provide any proof!!

Mate, I come from a Sikh background, Gurmukhi, the script is far far more complexe then Arabic, yet that is translated, although it does take some of the beauty out of the scriptures!! Mate, most modern scholars say your talking shite as most tranlsations have written commentary!! It's funny how so many islamic 'missionarys' give english versions of the Koranic to those it wants to convert, and the first thing many islamic people say to people in the west is 'have you read the koran' knwoing full well they would have to read an english translation................the translation can't be that bad then can it Empty!!!

[BoneDog]

We seem to be going round in circles here. These so called barriers have always been visible to the naked eye so they were obviously going to know that they existed. The difference is they said it was down to religion where in actual fact scientists have explained the real reason why (one river has more sediment from the hills). Look at this picture of the amazon below, it is clearly visible.

It's like saying the greeks had a verse about magical white pillows in the sky. We now know that they are clouds!!!

That picture is in South America and is where the Amazon comes out into the sea. It is not a picture of the different density of water between the Pacific and Indian oceans for example. Or the Atlantic and Med. I wasn't talking about a river and the sea.

[BoneDog]

Sorry Empty, the Koran says sperm was produced between the backbone and ribs, and that's of a pro islamic site, funnily enough the site goes onto say 'some scientist believe the testes to develop from this region' as an answer to this conundrum, but fails to mention which scientist or provide any proof!!

Mate, I come from a Sikh background, Gurmukhi, the script is far far more complexe then Arabic, yet that is translated, although it does take some of the beauty out of the scriptures!! Mate, most modern scholars say your talking shite as most tranlsations have written commentary!! It's funny how so many islamic 'missionarys' give english versions of the Koranic to those it wants to convert, and the first thing many islamic people say to people in the west is 'have you read the koran' knwoing full well they would have to read an english translation................the translation can't be that bad then can it Empty!!!

Which pro Islamic site is this? There are plenty of bad ones. Submission.org being one.

And there are plenty of wrong English translations of the Koran too. Just like there are plenty of wrong Bibles and other books that have been changed countless times since their conception.

P.S I don't want to turn this into a religion debate again. I was only mentioning how the earths rotation is slowing down in the first place.

[Edmund]

That picture is in South America and is where the Amazon comes out into the sea. It is not a picture of the different density of water between the Pacific and Indian oceans for example. Or the Atlantic and Med. I wasn't talking about a river and the sea.

No it's not it's all one river : the amazon. It is muddy water meeting with clear waters.

http://rainforests.mongabay.com/0602.htm

[BoneDog]

No it's not it's all one river : the amazon. It is muddy water meeting with clear waters.

http://rainforests.mongabay.com/0602.htm

I've got a David Attenborough dvd about it and I'm sure it's where it meets the sea. I'll have a check though

[Dr The Singh]

I didn't say a Harvard professor confirmed a Koran verse. I'm sure that I said I've seen them doing lectures talking about how the earth is slowing down its rotation didn't I?

And how many times do I have to say that these videos I watch on youtube are not just some twat with a webcam, they are lectures at universities and other places by top professors and scientists. You can watch most things there, discovery channel programmes etc. Just because I choose to look for them makes it no different to watching them 'live' at wherever they take place.

You said

The science talk just seemed to say the same thing (and they weren't Muslim scientists). When I find it i'll post it in here.

So the scientist said exactly what was written in that verse.......NO!!! Your peicing 2 different objects together, there maybe similarities but there is no scientific similarity!!!

[Babylon]

I think a verse about unseen barriers in the seas are enough when science has just recently discovered these barriers. Like I said, there are more verses though.

People can find meanings in any old scripts if they really want to. Is there anything conclusive that these scripts were talking about exactly the same thing as the scientists... probably not.

Nostradamus is a prime example of people seeing what they want to see.

[davieG]

A question for El, where do you stand on this religious question, if I recall in a previous topics you said you weren't a Muslim yet you spend a considerable amount of time defending it against all other options.

I'd like to know what you're beliefs are so that I can judge how biased or not you are.

For me I was 'raised' in a fairly strict C of E environment, baptised, confirmed and I'm now very ambivalent towards religion due to the over whelming hypocrisy I encountered.

I don't know if evolution answers all the questions or not but I'd like to think I have an open mind to the idea. I'm not even against the idea of a creator, in fact I don't think at this point they can be classed as mutually exclusive.

I'm not convinced that the existence of a 'creator' requires one to be 'religious' either, certainly not based on the religions I've come across on Earth.

You don't seem to be very open minded about anything other than what the Koran is perceived to be saying and that only it contains the truth.

If you don't feel you want to say fair enough but it diminishes your views if I don't have an understanding of where your coming from.

Apologies if you've already discussed this but I've not seen it.

[Dr The Singh]

Which pro Islamic site is this? There are plenty of bad ones. Submission.org being one.

And there are plenty of wrong English translations of the Koran too. Just like there are plenty of wrong Bibles and other books that have been changed countless times since their conception.

P.S I don't want to turn this into a religion debate again. I was only mentioning how the earths rotation is slowing down in the first place.

Mate, you can read that translation from Yousaf Ali's English translation, infact it's probably on your wonderous Encylclopedia Britanica, the fact that people, whether they be Islamic or otherwise try to make a scientific debate about it or any other religious document is ridiculous!!!

Like I have said, many religious books give wonderful observation or quirks into our world, and these should be thought of as philosophical rather then physical!! You don't help yourself by giving us Koranic revalations as proven and expect everyone not to debate them!!

[BoneDog]

You said

The science talk just seemed to say the same thing (and they weren't Muslim scientists). When I find it i'll post it in here.

So the scientist said exactly what was written in that verse.......NO!!! Your peicing 2 different objects together, there maybe similarities but there is no scientific similarity!!!

I was talking about the scientists saying that the earth is slowing down and it will get to a point where the earth springs back on itself and rotates the other way, meaning that the sun will rise from the west. I don't think that is a verse from the Koran, I think it's just one of the signs of the end days that are in the Hadith. Might be wrong though.

All I'm saying is that this thought in science that says the earth will reverse it's rotation matches up to the prophecy of the Sun one day rising from the west instead of east.

[Edmund]

I've got a David Attenborough dvd about it and I'm sure it's where it meets the sea. I'll have a check though

I have the same dvd "amazon abyss", but that site explains it all anyway. Good dvd that is

[BoneDog]

People can find meanings in any old scripts if they really want to. Is there anything conclusive that these scripts were talking about exactly the same thing as the scientists... probably not.

Nostradamus is a prime example of people seeing what they want to see.

Yes I think it is conclusive that the verse was talking about the same thing. It says, "Have you not seen how We have set a barrier between the two seas? Neither one can transgress the other." Seems pretty conclusive to me.

I don't know much about Nostradamus so can't comment on him. Didn't he say that someone in the middle east would start worldwide hatred leading to World War 3? I only say that cos I heard it in a rap tune from 1991.

[BoneDog]

A question for El, where do you stand on this religious question, if I recall in a previous topics you said you weren't a Muslim yet you spend a considerable amount of time defending it against all other options.

I'd like to know what you're beliefs are so that I can judge how biased or not you are.

For me I was 'raised' in a fairly strict C of E environment, baptised, confirmed and I'm now very ambivalent towards religion due to the over whelming hypocrisy I encountered.

I don't know if evolution answers all the questions or not but I'd like to think I have an open mind to the idea. I'm not even against the idea of a creator, in fact I don't think at this point they can be classed as mutually exclusive.

I'm not convinced that the existence of a 'creator' requires one to be 'religious' either, certainly not based on the religions I've come across on Earth.

You don't seem to be very open minded about anything other than what the Koran is perceived to be saying and that only it contains the truth.

If you don't feel you want to say fair enough but it diminishes your views if I don't have an understanding of where your coming from.

Apologies if you've already discussed this but I've not seen it.

I am not a Muslim but I have read the Koran aswell as the King James version of the Bible. I was raised C of E aswell, but not strict. I only went to church with school at Christmas. I can honestly say I'm not biased, I just think that the Koran makes alot of sense.

The only reason I don't quote the Bible is because there are too many contradictions due to the hundreds of changes made in the last 1500 years. It just doesn't make sense anymore.

I can understand why people see alot of hypocrisy in Religion cos there are alot of nutters around who give it a bad name. But if you look at the true people in all religions they are very good people and would never harm anyone.

I don't believe in evolution cos I have seen alot of talks that I think prove it wrong. That's just my opinion though.

And I like to think I am open minded about things, I watch alot of talks by all-sorts of people and read alot of non-fiction books.

Ask me any more if I've not answered.

[davieG]

I am not a Muslim but I have read the Koran aswell as the King James version of the Bible. I was raised C of E aswell, but not strict. I only went to church with school at Christmas. I can honestly say I'm not biased, I just think that the Koran makes alot of sense.

The only reason I don't quote the Bible is because there are too many contradictions due to the hundreds of changes made in the last 1500 years. It just doesn't make sense anymore.

I can understand why people see alot of hypocrisy in Religion cos there are alot of nutters around who give it a bad name. But if you look at the true people in all religions they are very good people and would never harm anyone.

I don't believe in evolution cos I have seen alot of talks that I think prove it wrong. That's just my opinion though.

And I like to think I am open minded about things, I watch alot of talks by all-sorts of people and read alot of non-fiction books.

Ask me any more if I've not answered.

Thanks for that just to pick up on the hypocrisy, my distaste has nothing to do with the loonies they are generally clearly visible and much more to do with those that hold the power yet live lives of luxury or relative luxury basking in the reflected glory achieved by those that believe yet live a frugal and honest lifestyle. There are also so many that vigorously dictate/interpret acceptable lifestyles for these believers yet fail to follow it themselves.

Having been raised in a C of E children's home, although thankful for their support even at a local level the snobbery and hypocrisy shown by those 'supporters' where we were treated like lepers in their company when attending church and excluded from their 'exclusive' C of E schools left me with this distaste.

[Babylon]

Yes I think it is conclusive that the verse was talking about the same thing. It says, "Have you not seen how We have set a barrier between the two seas? Neither one can transgress the other." Seems pretty conclusive to me.

I don't know much about Nostradamus so can't comment on him. Didn't he say that someone in the middle east would start worldwide hatred leading to World War 3? I only say that cos I heard it in a rap tune from 1991.

If that's what you class as conclusive then there's no point in even arguing the point.

[Trav Le Bleu]

Is this El Empty Baiting thread still going?

[BoneDog]

the fact that people, whether they be Islamic or otherwise try to make a scientific debate about it or any other religious document is ridiculous!!!

You don't help yourself by giving us Koranic revalations as proven and expect everyone not to debate them!!

I don't think it's ridiculous to make a scientific debate out of certain religious texts. And neither do about 4 or 5 billion other people including thousands of scientists (maybe more) including scientists who work on the Human Genome Project. I don't think these people are ridiculous. Modern science is coming up with lots of evidence to support the idea of an intelligent force behind the creation of our universe.

To be honest, I find it quite ridiculous for anyone to think that everything we see in the universe just appeared without a creative force behind it. Surely it is far too perfect for that.

I also don't mind if people debate what I say, it's only my opinions I am putting forward.