super city & UKIP.

[RobHawk]

Any polital party that has Kilroy as amember cannot be taken seriously!!

Anyway, heres one of the UKIP candidates, she is also the treasurer of the party.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marta_Andreasen

Argentine born Spanish accountant declaring the UK should be independent?? What does she know??

Also interesting to read about the fact she was sacked from her last job essentially for fraud!

UKIP =

[Alexikokopops]

I just think the EU have some absolutely stupid ideas on things, and the quicker we leave it the better, its not a load of racial torture either, its hardly the BNP.

You seem to be completely missing my point. I'm not saying the UKIP is into racial torture! What I'm saying is this.

Human rights principles include the elimination of racial and sexual discrimination and convention against torture.

You want to get rid of human rights so coppers can beat up criminals

Ergo you are willing see the illegality of racial and sexual discrimination, and torture, removed so some criminals can get beaten up

That's what I'm concerned about. UKIP does not come into this

[James.]

I hope super city learns some stuff before he is allowed to vote. That's the basic problem - he's just misinformed and a bit gullible.

If you're serious about politics try to read a variety of material to improve your understanding and provide some balance to your opinions.

[Alexikokopops]

I hope super city learns some stuff before he is allowed to vote. That's the basic problem - he's just misinformed and a bit gullible.

If you're serious about politics try to read a variety of material to improve your understanding and provide some balance to your opinions.

Exactly. It's like Blaby Fox and his views on Muslims, that was down to misinformation.

[Jon the Hat]

Exactly. It's like Blaby Fox and his views on Muslims, that was down to misinformation.

And intelligence. People who are intelligent question what they read and are told.

[Alexikokopops]

And intelligence. People who are intelligent question what they read and are told.

He's only 16, I can understand him being a bit naive.

[Jon the Hat]

He's only 16, I can understand him being a bit naive.

Was more of a general comment than aimed specifically at the lad.

And to be fair, at 16 I am not sure I had much of a political view at all, so he has some interest which is a starting point.

[Dan]

Call it that then, the election after next thats where it gets interesting

[Bryn]

Fair ****s to Super City for giving a shit, to be honest. However, I'd suggest that he's misguided and I hope that over the next couple of years before he reaches the age of suffrage, he educates himself a bit better.

Ash on the other hand just brought Tupac into a political argument, surpassing all our expectations as to what a tit he is.

Didn't read pages 4 or 5.

[coale39]

Shouldn't this be in the jokes thread?

No, it really shouldn't. IMO i think that's a good amount to pay for the benefits.

Before studying economics of European integration at uni, I held a fairly sceptical view of the EU. Was it really worth £40 billion a year?

First point I want to highlight is the non - economic benefits.

At the end of 1945, Europe was a mess. Most of Europe had been ruled by a fascist dictator or been occupied by a foreign army. France had gone back to the same output as they had in 1891. Countries were worried that in another 10-20 years time when the countries had recovered, there would be a good chance of another world war.

(I was going to write a massive amount as a type of essay but doubt many people couldn’t be arsed to read it if it was long prose or hard to read language, no offence super fox)

So the early EU was formed to stop future wars and bring economic benefits, and started agreements on basic commodities such as steel and coal. Heres a quick list of benefits the EU brings to the UK I’ve stolen off the internet because I’m lazy:

- Expansion of democracy.

- Creation of the world's largest internal market. 27 nations, 500 million people. 20% of the world's exports.

- When European consumers buy anywhere in Europe - it's just like buying at home. The increased competition drives down prices and raises quality.

- Cooperation to combat crime. EU arrest warrants to catch criminals wherever they are in the EU.

- Ease of travel and buying property in another EU country. Another country is now just a cheap flight away. You can even retire in the sun, without losing your pension rights.

- Free medical help if you fall ill in any EU country

- A safer neighbourhood. The prospect of membership helping to bring on EU neighbours, like Turkey and Ukraine.

- Being a member gives you a stronger voice in the world. When Europe speaks with one voice, we have clout. When we impose sanctions, or just begin to talk about doing so, countries around the world take notice.

- Increased global security. Still at a young stage, but the EU is becoming better at delivering global security, whether in Africa, or the Balkans. We cooperate and coordinate when necessary.

- We need to be part of Europe to continue being a global player. With China and India on the rise economically, being inside the EU means you get your voice heard.

This site also has good points

http://www.ecademy.com/node.php?id=80546

PS: I also want to say that im not blind to the EU's mistakes and certain disadvantages. But overall, in my opinion, the advantages far out way the disadvantages.

[Guest]

IMO, UKIP are pretty much BNP-lite. People like to blame other people for their problems and the EU is a giant entity that takes most of the stick, because people only see the bad red tape stuff in the Sun and not the good things that it does for our country in terms of the economy, providing jobs, law and justice etc.

I'm sure these people won't be slagging off the EU when their roaming charges are either reduced or abolished whilst they are on holiday in the Med.

As well as losing us countless billions and bringing in the Human Rights law, possibly the stupidest law ever made.

Human Rights law is the stupidest law ever made? Good Lord! Also it's the Council of Europe that are in charge of the European Convention on Human Rights and the European Court of Human Rights. That's not the European Union

What Alex said. Also, the European Convention on Human Rights was one that the British, among others, pushed to the fore, and the document was drafted by British lawyers. You need to look at the context in which it was drafted and the reasoning behind it. It was a reaction to the atrocities committed by the Nazis during the War.

But we've had to bring it in as soon as we joined the EU.

And its done nothing but help criminals tbh, when arresting someone you are not allowed to hurt them or else you face the sack, how stupid is that?

And besides, you've not told me who you're voting for and why.

We have always had to abide by the ECHR. The problem was that as it was not incorporated into our legal system, if anybody wanted to rely on it, they had to go to Strasbourg. The Human Rights Act means that these matters can now be dealt with in our courts, saving time and money.

As for your second paragraph, I take it you wouldn't object to being beaten up when falsely arrested?

I just think the EU have some absolutely stupid ideas on things, and the quicker we leave it the better, its not a load of racial torture either, its hardly the BNP.

Stupid ideas like telling mobile phone companies that roaming charges throughout the community go against the principles of the union?

The EU is primarily an economic union, aimed at improving trade throughout the member states. It has no say on human rights issues.

[Webbo]

Before studying economics of European integration at uni, I held a fairly sceptical view of the EU. Was it really worth £40 billion a year?

It's a bit more that that.

At the end of 1945, Europe was a mess. Most of Europe had been ruled by a fascist dictator or been occupied by a foreign army.

We hadn't, so why do we need these countries to tell us how to run our country?

- Expansion of democracy.

Hmm, not sure that's anything to do with the EU

- When European consumers buy anywhere in Europe - it's just like buying at home. The increased competition drives down prices and raises quality.

It also stops us from buying cheaper third world imports, reinforcing their poverty.

- Cooperation to combat crime. EU arrest warrants to catch criminals wherever they are in the EU.

Crimes gone up since we've joined the EU

- We need to be part of Europe to continue being a global player. With China and India on the rise economically, being inside the EU means you get your voice heard.

They've not listening to my voice.

I'm not denying that there are some advantages and I'm not saying we should withdraw but it's not the panacea it's made out to be.

It's a largely undemocratic and corrupt gravy train and it needs reforming.

[Ultra]

Perhaps reforms are needed, but they won't be achieved by voting UKIP, or trying to veto a treaty agreed by the rest of the EU.

[Webbo]

Perhaps reforms are needed, but they won't be achieved by voting UKIP, or trying to veto a treaty agreed by the rest of the EU.

I thought Ireland had voted against it?

[coale39]

I'm not denying that there are some advantages and I'm not saying we should withdraw but it's not the panacea it's made out to be.

It's a largely undemocratic and corrupt gravy train and it needs reforming.

Totally agree. Reform is needed. Just being out of it completely would disadvantage us so much.

[Ultra]

I thought Ireland had voted against it?

That had more to do with Irish voters having issues with their own government, rather than with the EU.

The decision will be reversed by the end of this year.

[Dan]

I'm sure these people won't be slagging off the EU when their roaming charges are either reduced or abolished whilst they are on holiday in the Med.

What Alex said. Also, the European Convention on Human Rights was one that the British, among others, pushed to the fore, and the document was drafted by British lawyers. You need to look at the context in which it was drafted and the reasoning behind it. It was a reaction to the atrocities committed by the Nazis during the War.

We have always had to abide by the ECHR. The problem was that as it was not incorporated into our legal system, if anybody wanted to rely on it, they had to go to Strasbourg. The Human Rights Act means that these matters can now be dealt with in our courts, saving time and money.

As for your second paragraph, I take it you wouldn't object to being beaten up when falsely arrested?

Stupid ideas like telling mobile phone companies that roaming charges throughout the community go against the principles of the union?

The EU is primarily an economic union, aimed at improving trade throughout the member states. It has no say on human rights issues.

Only beat up people that try to resist arrest.

[lou]

Only beat up people that try to resist arrest.

Haaahhhaaahhhaaaaaa thats the funniest thing Ive read all night! Ahh the naivity of youth

[ASH17LCFC]

Got my voting thing today, i hate the EU and i hate being part of it.

[DeclanMC]

Haaahhhaaahhhaaaaaa thats the funniest thing Ive read all night! Ahh the naivity of youth

Fook it let's just execute every criminal.

[lou]

Fook it let's just execute every criminal.

Why stop there? Execute everyone who LOOKS like they might be a criminal!

[DeclanMC]

Why stop there? Execute everyone who LOOKS like they might be a criminal!

I don't think that measure goes far enough, execute everyone.

[Guest Bilo]

I'm not denying that there are some advantages and I'm not saying we should withdraw but it's not the panacea it's made out to be.

It's a largely undemocratic and corrupt gravy train and it needs reforming.

Absolutely right. The EU has many flaws in terms of the way it operates, not least in the political processes behind it. The attempts at European convergence in so many areas have been a complete mess and the European Parliament is the foremost example of this. It is perceived by voters to be an unaccountable haven for failed politicians, and rather than sling the usual insults of xenophobia at those who point out these simple facts Europe would do far better to make the changes that are so desperately needed. The emergence of the so-called tiger economies of China and India in recent years show that Europe as a political entity needs to become more competitive on the world stage, and only modernisation of the political processes will achieve this.

Perhaps reforms are needed, but they won't be achieved by voting UKIP, or trying to veto a treaty agreed by the rest of the EU.

Reforms are definitely needed as I've stated above, and I agree that voting for a party whose MEPs have proved to be as useful as a chocolate fireguard is not the way to achieve those reforms. One issue though, the treaty has not been ratified by the rest of the EU. Holland, France and Ireland have all rejected it in separate referenda. We may never know if the British public would ratify the treaty as Brown clearly has no intention of granting us the same opportunity to decide.

[Ultra]

The Netherlands and France rejected the Nice Treaty, not the Lisbon one.

Decisions on constitutional matters of this type are best dealt with by governments and parliaments.

If we had a referendum, most folk wouldn't be bothered enough to read the treaty, and would just rely on the media's interpretation of it.

That's not my idea of democracy.

[DeclanMC]

The Netherlands and France rejected the Nice Treaty, not the Lisbon one.

Decisions on constitutional matters of this type are best dealt with by governments and parliaments.

If we had a referendum, most folk wouldn't be bothered enough to read the treaty, and would just rely on the media's interpretation of it.

That's not my idea of democracy.

That's right, and it's why everyone against Europe is clamouring for a referendum, because they know it will go their way. The mass media will portray, as they have always done, the EU as the Devil.