FAO BNP Voters (And BNP Haters)

[Guest]

Did you answer mine..."And you base reliability and credibility on what?"

Lets cut to the chase, who's the guilty and who's the innocent?

Reliability and credibility are based on a number of things. As you said, I don't know these people, so how can I form an opinion on the matter and decide who is innocent or not?

[ob1kanobe0]

Reliability and credibility are based on a number of things. As you said, I don't know these people, so how can I form an opinion on the matter and decide who is innocent or not?

Lisa, imagine im electronicly holding your hand, given what you've read, quotes from all those involved, all eye witnesses etc etc

Mr Griffin, encouraged attack upon himself OR innocent victim of assualt via a political belief system (fascism) by Ben?

Ben, hooligan thug who used politics as his means for attacking Mr Griffin OR innocent of any wrong doing?

Labour MP, liar OR truth teller?

BNP security, wrongly attacked Ben OR justifiable self defence of themselves/Mr Griffin?

Lets not go round in riddled circles shal we.

[davieG]

I meant, do it, because i know you can't.

He may have changed the cover of the book to make them more electable but the contents are still Fascists.

</h2>

<h2>Why the BNP is Still Fascism

Geoffrey Brown

THE GAINS made by the BNP in local elections in recent years – it now has almost fifty councillors, an achievement unprecedented in the history of the far right in Britain – have been assisted by a systematic revamping of the party's image. The public expressions of Nazi sympathies and Holocaust denial for which the BNP had become notorious have been junked and it now presents itself as a respectable, mainstream political party. The question arises – does this amount to a fundamental change in the BNP's political character, or is it a cosmetic exercise designed to fool voters into backing an organisation that has in reality failed to break with its fascist past?

Origins of the BNP

That the British National Party has fascist origins is of course indisputable. The party was founded in 1982 under the leadership of John Tyndall, a longtime Nazi sympathiser whose involvement with the far right dated back to the 1950s. A former chairman of the National Front and editor of the fascist magazine Spearhead, Tyndall was on record as stating that "Mein Kampf is my bible".

Having resigned from the NF in 1980 after losing a factional struggle against his rival and former close collaborator Martin Webster, Tyndall formed his own group called the New National Front. He established the BNP on the basis of a fusion between the NNF and two smaller fascist groups, the British Movement and the British Democratic Party. Tyndall remained at the head of the BNP until 1999, when he was successfully challenged for the position of chairman by the present incumbent, Nick Griffin. After his death in July 2005 a Guardian obituary rightly described Tyndall as "a racist, violent neo-Nazi to the end".

Enter Nick Griffin

For all the carefully cultivated "reasonableness" of his public persona today, Griffin has a similar far-right background to Tyndall. He was a national organiser for the NF in the 1970s, and in the 1980s was heavily influenced by Roberto Fiore, a leader of the Italian fascist organisation the Armed Revolutionary Nuclei (NAR), who fled to Britain to avoid prosecution over the 1980 bombing of Bologna railway station in which 85 people died. Throughout the 1980s Griffin was a leading figure in what remained of the NF, promoting a NAR-inspired "Third Positionist" ideology that claimed to offer an alternative to both capitalism and communism. Griffin and the Third Positionists advocated a "political soldier" strategy which rejected the 1970s NF's objectives of mass membership and electoral success in favour of building an elite corps of professional fascist "revolutionaries".

However, as the NF fragmented in an outbreak of political infighting, the Third Positionists broke away in 1989 to form a separate grouping, and by 1991 Griffin had abandoned organised fascist politics altogether. After a brief period in the political wilderness he joined the BNP in 1995 and became editor of Tyndall's magazine Spearhead. Ironically, in view of subsequent developments, Tyndall brought Griffin into the BNP to act as a counterweight to an opposition headed by Tony Lecomber and others who favoured playing down the fascist character of the party in order to establish a broader popular appeal.

Griffin used Spearhead to denounce the "spiral of sickly moderation" and scorned the idea of the BNP projecting an image of restraint and respectability. Commenting on the party's earlier success in a council by-election in Millwall in 1993, Griffin wrote that the voters had not backed "a Post-Modernist Rightist Party, but what they perceived to be a strong, disciplined organisation with the ability to back up its slogan 'Defend Rights for Whites' with well-directed boots and fists. When the crunch comes, power is the product of force and will, not of rational debate."

In the course 1998, however, Griffin executed a dramatic U-turn and placed himself at the head of the Lecomber faction, arguing that the Tyndall-led BNP's overt identification with fascism was a political liability. (As he and Lecomber later informed Tyndall: "The many photographs of you in neo-Nazi uniform have always been a public relations handicap for the party.") When Griffin stood against Tyndall for the party leadership in 1999 he did so on a programme of "modernising" the organisation in order to make it more electable.

Griffin was inspired by the example of Jean-Marie le Pen's Front National, which has won significant electoral support in France by distancing itself from its fascist origins and taking on the character of a more mainstream right-wing party. (Griffin modelled the BNP's "Red, White and Blue" festival on the FN's "Fête Bleu, Blanc, Rouge" and the BNP's magazine Identity borrowed its title from the FN's Identité.) Having ousted Tyndall, Griffin set out to persuade the BNP membership to abandon their skinhead haircuts and swastika badges, wear smart clothes and in general project a more acceptable image, a tactic encapsulated in the slogan "suits not boots".

Griffin has a history of making sharp ideological turns in which he has embraced political views that he earlier repudiated and has condemned positions that he once enthusiastically supported. As some of his former comrades observed after he took over the leadership of the BNP: "He has been a conservative, a revolutionary nationalist, a radical National Socialist, a Third Positionist, a friend of the 'boot boys' and the skinhead scene, a man committed to respectable politics and electioneering, a 'moderniser'. Which is he in reality?"

Griffin himself would claim that over the years he has undergone a genuine ideological evolution in which he learned from his mistakes and adapted his views to a changing political reality. A more convincing explanation is that he is an unprincipled opportunist who is prepared to adopt or reject any variant of far-right ideology in order to further his own personal ambitions.

Griffin explains 'modernisation'

At the same time as he proposed to moderate the BNP's image, Griffin made it clear that the party's fundamental politics had not changed, and that its core membership should remain committed to fascism. In a 1999 article for Lecomber's magazine Patriot, published some months before he deposed Tyndall as chairman, Griffin outlined to BNP activists his plans for the "modernisation" of the party. He wrote:

"Why do nationalists [i.e. fascists], and nationalists alone, insist on spelling out in words of one syllable where they come from and where they want to go? Is it really honesty, or is it just plain stupidity? This is a life and death struggle for white survival, not a fancy dress party. A little less banner waving and a little more guile wouldn't go amiss....

"As long as our own cadres understand the full implications of our struggle, then there is no need for us to do anything to give the public cause for concern ... we must at all times present them with an image of moderate reasonableness....

"Of course, we must teach the truth to the hardcore, for, like you, I do not intend this movement to lose its way. But when it comes to influencing the public, forget about racial differences, genetics, Zionism, historical revisionism [i.e. Holocaust denial] and so on – all ordinary people want to know is what we can do for them that the other parties can't or won't."

Griffin emphasised that this did not mean the BNP had abandoned its long-term political objectives. He argued that it was all a matter of tactics and expediency:

"Politics is always the art of the possible, so we must judge every policy by one simple criterion: Is it realistically possible that a decisive proportion of the British people will support it? If not, then to scale down our short-term ambitions to a point at which the answer becomes 'yes' is not a sell-out, but the only possible step closer to our eventual goal."

Fascist sympathies

Out of the public eye, the BNP's "cadres" make no secret of their fascist sympathies. In a 2002 Channel 4 documentary entitled Young, Nazi, and Proud Mark Collett, the then head of the BNP's youth organisation and a protégé of Griffin, was secretly filmed declaring that "Hitler will live on forever". Collett endorsed Griffin's view that an openly Nazi movement was inappropriate to Britain in the early 21st century. But he insisted:

"National Socialism was the best solution for German people in the 1930s.... When people say 'Do you take any inspiration from that?', I mean, I honestly can't understand how a man who's seen the inner city hell of Britain today can't look back on that era with a certain nostalgia and think, yeah, those people marching through the streets and all those happy people out in the streets, you know, saluting and everything, was a bad thing ... would you prefer your kid growing up in Oldham and Burnley or 1930s Germany?"

In October 2004, when the BNP contested a council by-election in Dagenham, an Evening Standard reporter infiltrated their campaign. He quoted Tony Lecomber, who as we have noted was one of the earliest proponents of the current "modernising" project, expressing similar pro-Nazi sentiments to Collett's. Lecomber asked: "Do you remember Cabaret with Liza Minnelli, the part where, one by one, the Hitler Youth, our fellas, stand up and start saluting and singing? That is right stirring that is, gets the blood up every time."

On the eve of the 2005 general election the Yorkshire Evening Post reported details of a video made at a BNP social event "in which its members and supporters sing neo-Nazi songs, praise the leadership of Adolf Hitler's Third Reich, and give Sieg Heil salutes accompanied by shouts of 'Auschwitz!'." One of the songs sung in the video is "a re-write of the Kenny Rogers 1969 chart hit 'Ruby, don't take your love to town', except that the words have been changed to 'Nigger, get the **** out of my town'."

A recent study published by the University of Essex, The BNP: The Roots of its Appeal, has commented that such reports "reveal a British National Party that is far from throwing off the violence, racism and fascist sympathies that Griffin seeks to disown".

BNP and anti-semitism

As a convinced Nazi, Griffin was until his latest political turn an unabashed anti-semite. In 1997 he co-authored a pamphlet entitled Who are the Mindbenders? which asserted that the British people had been brainwashed by Jewish-controlled media. It was a typical paranoid fascist fantasy about a world dominated by cabals of scheming Jews.

In May 1998 Griffin was found guilty of inciting racial hatred and received a two-year suspended jail sentence. The charge arose from his writings in the BNP publication, The Rune, in which he referred to the Holocaust as the "Holohoax". Attacking far-right "historian" David Irving for admitting in an interview that up to four million Jews were killed by the Nazis, Griffin wrote: "True revisionists will not be fooled by this new twist to the sorry tale of the Hoax of the Twentieth Century." The prosecution was the result of a complaint to the police by the Liberal Democrat MP Alex Carlile, who was attacked by Griffin as "this bloody Jew ... whose only claim is that his grandparents died in the Holocaust".

In his defence Griffin reasserted his stand on Holocaust denial in unequivocal terms: "I am well aware that the orthodox opinion is that 6 million Jews were gassed and cremated or turned into lampshades. Orthodox opinion also once held that the earth is flat.... I have reached the conclusion that the 'extermination' tale is a mixture of Allied wartime propaganda, extremely profitable lie, and latter day witch-hysteria."

However, one of the notable features of the BNP's makeover under Griffin's leadership has been his efforts to avoid public displays of anti-semitism. Bizarrely, the party even has a councillor of Jewish origin – Patricia Richardson (née Feldman) who won a seat in Epping Forest in 2004. Richardson justifies her membership of the BNP on the grounds that the "present party is different to the old party", which is of course precisely the message that Griffin wants to convey to the electorate, though the issue has provoked angry criticism from within the BNP's ranks.

Last year Griffin told an interviewer that the BNP now rejects "old fantasies about Learned Elders of Zion controlling the world, and the rabid anti-semitism that they reflect and incite". He explained:

"Look – we have very serious enemies in this country, both at home and abroad. If you're going to go with that old nonsense of Jews under every bed and responsible for all the ills of the world, then you're going to have a crazy strategic vision of who you're fighting and what to do about it. The idea that 'the Jew is the enemy' is simply over for us now, and not a moment too soon, because now we can get on with the real struggles."

Who are these "real struggles" to be fought against, then? Griffin told the same interviewer:

"We are deeply concerned about the mainly – though not exclusively – French elite project to morph the EU, Turkey and the Maghreb into 'Eurabia'. Bat Ye'or is 100% right about this. If this now far-advanced scheme comes to fruition then it would in turn lead to the Islamification of the whole European continent. A generation ago the revival of the historic Islamic threat to Europe would have been unthinkable; now it is clearly destined to be the great issue and decision of our time. For us, the closely linked threats of mass Third World immigration and Islamification outweigh all other considerations."

More recently, Griffin has repeated this point in an article on the BNP website, condemning "people whose one-track concern about 'the Jews' is blinding them to the clear and present danger of resurgent Islam". As usual, Griffin argued this on purely pragmatic grounds. He stressed: "We should be positioning ourselves to take advantage for our own political ends of the growing wave of public hostility to Islam currently being whipped up by the mass media." In short, inciting Islamophobia would produce better results than promoting anti-semitism.

Thus the May 2006 local election campaign was fought by the BNP as a "referendum on Islam". Their election leaflet stated:

"Terrorist atrocities in London, militant marches on our streets and 'preachers' calling for the deaths of normal British people simply because they don't follow Islam. This is not some nightmare vision – but the reality of Islamic extremism in Britain today, yet our government do nothing but pander to these people. The BNP say enough is enough! We are the only people speaking out against the dangers of the Islamification of Britain. If you want to make Blair and Co hear your voice, vote BNP, and use this election as a referendum on Islam."

However, this shift in political tactics does not mean the BNP membership have abandoned their anti-semitic views. In the documentary Young, Nazi, and Proud Mark Collett, unaware that he was being recorded, opined: "I'd never say this on camera, the Jews have been thrown out of every country, including England. There's not a single European country the Jews have not been thrown out of.... When it happens that many times it's not just persecution. There's no smoke without fire."

In 2003 Steve Batkin, who has stood as the BNP's candidate for mayor of Stoke, caused Griffin severe embarrassment during the local elections by asserting that Jews had made money out of the Holocaust and had lied about the death toll. Griffin publicly reprimanded Batkin, who was instructed not to confuse "personal hobbyhorses with the party line" or else the BNP's backing for his candidacy would be withdrawn. A chastened Batkin was forced to inform the press: "I stated my personal view on this occasion and not the view of the Party. It was a mistake."

The mask slipped again in June 2006 when Liam Birch, the BNP's candidate in a Plymouth council by-election, was exposed as having posted racist comments on his weblog in which he referred to the "alleged" gassing of Jews by the Nazis and asserted that the chimney of a concentration camp crematorium was "a Soviet dummy". Birch also wrote: "The Jews declared war on the Nazis, not the other way round."

It is quite clear that the public downplaying of anti-semitism by the BNP under Griffin's leadership is just another tactical manoeuvre that does not affect the party's basic ideology. In any case, a shift in emphasis from anti-Jewish to anti-Muslim racism is hardly evidence of a renunciation of fascism. In October 2005 a contributor to Combat 18's Blood and Honour discussion forum argued along similar lines to Griffin, though in more forthright terms, that the traditional fascist concentration on Jewish conspiracy theories is now outmoded:

"... the world is facing a bigger threat. Right now our whole way of life is under a threat of the magnitude that no Jew has ever presented us: Sharia Law. Little by little, piece by piece Blair is facilitating the Muslim take over of our society. Burger King remove icecreams because a squiggle on the packaging looks like 'Allah'. A council removes pictures of pigs during Ramadan. They are pushing and pushing – seeing what they can get away with. If they are refused it's 'Islamophobia'. How long before all pork is banned because of 'Islamophobia'. How long before we are told what to wear, what to drink, what to say?

"At the moment our society is the best in the world (even if it is run by some secret group of Jews!!). Compare our way of life to the real enemy: People who'll flog your feet for listening to music or being clean shaven. People who'll behead you for drinking a lager.... Groups like Hisb ut Tarir [sic] want an Islamic world, with white people as subservients – paying tax to their caliph king. Despite the noise made by Blair, they are still all around us and still getting stronger.

"Obsession with ZOG [Zionist Occupation Government, a popular white supremacist myth] is a distraction. fook it – forget about the Jews. Focus on the real enemy. Defending the Jews isn't something I make a habit of, but at least they are more or less like us.... The Jews don't eat pork, but they don't shove their religion down our throats, but there are people out there who will – if we lose sight of who the real enemies are."

Conclusion

In summary, I would endorse the assessment of the BNP made by Nigel Copsey, in his book Contemporary British Fascism: The British National Party and the Quest for Legitimacy (2004), where he writes that "even if the image and tactics have changed under Griffin there has been little modification of the party's core ideology".

The fact that the Griffin-led BNP has publicly dispensed with the Nazi trappings of the past does not mean that it has evolved into some sort of post-fascist right-wing populist party, as has arguably been the case with Le Pen's Front National. This is not to say that such an evolution is theoretically impossible, but the BNP's organisational and ideological roots in the British Nazi movement are so deep that any such development must be seen as a very long-term prospect.

If we are to argue over definitions, I would concede that the BNP might more accurately be termed "neo-fascist", in the sense that it draws its inspiration from fascist movements of the past while adapting its ideology and forms of organisation to the political situation in Britain today. But this is no invention of Nick Griffin, even if he has taken the process further than others. Back in 1992, under Tyndall's leadership, the BNP's election manifesto stated: "Fascism was Italian; Nazism was German. We are British. We will do things in our own way...."

A discussion of the political strategy necessary to defeat the BNP is outside the scope of this article. But the exposure of the fascistic character of the party is an essential part of the struggle against it. The BNP may have attracted wider electoral support over the past few years by prettifying its image, but its main cadre remains a bunch of unreconstructed Hitler admirers and Holocaust deniers. Those who accept Griffin's fraudulent claim that he has effected a fundamental transformation of the party's character will only play into the BNP's hands.

[Guest]

Lisa, imagine im electronicly holding your hand, given what you've read, quotes from all those involved, all eye witnesses etc etc

Mr Griffin, encouraged attack upon himself OR innocent victim of assualt via a political belief system (fascism) by Ben?

Ben, hooligan thug who used politics as his means for attacking Mr Griffin OR innocent of any wrong doing?

Labour MP, liar OR truth teller?

BNP security, wrongly attacked Ben OR justifiable self defence of themselves/Mr Griffin?

Lets not go round in riddled circles shal we.

I'm not going round in riddled circles, I am not commenting because there are several different stories as to what happened.

[ob1kanobe0]

He may have changed the cover of the book to make them more electable but the contents are still Fascists.

</h2>

You're using a Marxist, a die hard political and social enemy of the BNP, to give a balanced view on the BNP

Where did you learn credibility, at the Peter Taylor school of thought

Why don't you (i loved that programme) give me an example of fascism, and equate it to the BNP?

Are you a marxist davieG?

[maddog]

Bloody hell this thread nearly has 1000 posts in it

The BNP must be this attention

[ob1kanobe0]

I'm not going round in riddled circles, I am not commenting because there are several different stories as to what happened.

Do you ever comment on things like who might be coming to city, whether Pearson was falling out with Milan recently, whether a city manager is playing the right formation/system, giving your opinion?

Isn't it the case Lisa, that you don't wana have to admit on FoxesTalk as an admin moderator, that inlight of all the evidence so far, that the obvious conclusion is that Mr Griffin was attacked by a far left thug in a fascist way? Its ok to hate fascism Lisa.

[davieG]

You're using a Marxist, a die hard political and social enemy of the BNP, to give a balanced view on the BNP

Where did you learn credibility, at the Peter Taylor school of thought

Why don't you (i loved that programme) give me an example of fascism, and equate it to the BNP?

Are you a marxist davieG?

No I'm not I'm very apolitical, as in interested but do not believe in party politics of any hue. As for finding credible evidence I'm sure who ever I quoted unless they were a member of the BNP you'd say they were biased against them.

You believe what you want and I'll do the same, to me anyone who is so obsessed and has total belief in any particular party is blinkered or brainwashed or an extreamist.

[Guest]

Do you ever comment on things like who might be coming to city, whether Pearson was falling out with Milan recently, whether a city manager is playing the right formation/system, giving your opinion?

Isn't it the case Lisa, that you don't wana have to admit on FoxesTalk as an admin moderator, that inlight of all the evidence so far, that the obvious conclusion is that Mr Griffin was attacked by a far left thug in a fascist way? Its ok to hate fascism Lisa.

But you only say that because you believe the BNP side of things. That is not the obvious conclusion, as you only want to believe what you want to believe. I, on the other hand, am keeping an open mind on events.

If I was being honest, I can think of many things that I would like seen thrown at Griffin, and he would have a lot more to worry about than a dry cleaning bill.

[Nick]

Do you ever comment on things like who might be coming to city, whether Pearson was falling out with Milan recently, whether a city manager is playing the right formation/system, giving your opinion?

Isn't it the case Lisa, that you don't wana have to admit on FoxesTalk as an admin moderator, that inlight of all the evidence so far, that the obvious conclusion is that Mr Griffin was attacked by a far left thug in a fascist way? Its ok to hate fascism Lisa.

Wow. At this juncture I feel inclined to give my opinion.

A man who peddles so much hate and riles so many is likely to get a pint thrown over him in many pubs across the uk and the planet.

Such a person to commit such an enviable crime I doubt could be considered a far left thug carrying out fascist political aims.

It's more like a regular fella who despises prejudice, segregation, and the underpinning narrative of the BNP's exclusive use of democratic privileges which undermine the very principles the notion of democracy was built on, showing his distaste in an aggressive manner, post a few beers. I'm sure many would gladly line up to do the same given the opportunity. I might consider joining this que, it wouldn't make me a far left fascist though, just a fella who believes that the BNP are racist intolerant idealistic indoctrinated, poorly socially aware, naive people all screaming Nationalism with no real policies, political grounding or real solutions, preaching to the poor the disaffected and the desperate echelons of our society blaming ethnicity as a causational folk devil.

Stop talking crap and have a good look at what the BNP really is.

N.

The rest is all conjecture.

[welck12]

I cant believe he wasted a pint on him, a pint of guiness at that! What a waste!

[ob1kanobe0]

No I'm not I'm very apolitical, as in interested but do not believe in party politics of any hue. As for finding credible evidence I'm sure who ever I quoted unless they were a member of the BNP you'd say they were biased against them.

You believe what you want and I'll do the same, to me anyone who is so obsessed and has total belief in any particular party is blinkered or brainwashed or an extreamist.

You do though now understand, that providing credible evidence for something the way you did wasn't the best. Credible isn't who provides it, but what it is. Providing evidence from a marxist is like saying a man's best friend is a shark.

So Labour, Conservatives and Lib Dems are blinkered or brainwashed or an extreamist?

[ob1kanobe0]

But you only say that because you believe the BNP side of things. That is not the obvious conclusion, as you only want to believe what you want to believe. I, on the other hand, am keeping an open mind on events.

If I was being honest, I can think of many things that I would like seen thrown at Griffin, and he would have a lot more to worry about than a dry cleaning bill.

The evidence is overwhelmingly infavour of Mr Griffin being a victim of far left fascism.

Is that an admitence of fascism by you Lisa? Very much sounds like it.

[AjcW]

The evidence is overwhelmingly infavour of Mr Griffin being a victim of far left fascism.

Is that an admitence of fascism by you Lisa? Very much sounds like it.

Its an opinion by lisa... If you want to put a title to that opinion thats your choice but keep it to yourself, you cant just go around branding people fascists.

[ob1kanobe0]

A man who peddles so much hate and riles so many is likely to get a pint thrown over him in many pubs across the uk and the planet.

Are you advocating that so long as anyone see's another as peddeling so much hate, then its justifiable to attack them? Free for all.

You're now peddeling hate against the BNP, that mean people can attack you. Silly.

Such a person to commit such an enviable crime I doubt could be considered a far left thug carrying out fascist political aims.

But thats what fascism is, using violence in the name of politics, which is what Ben did. Of the thousands of thugs that have attacked the BNP over their 15? year history, all belong to atleast a left wing stance, communists, marxists, anarchists, extremists.

Shouldn't we all think along the lines of what Voltaire said?

Stop talking crap and have a good look at what the BNP really is.

How long do i have to wait before you can prove what you think the BNP really are?

[ob1kanobe0]

Its an opinion by lisa... If you want to put a title to that opinion thats your choice but keep it to yourself, you cant just go around branding people fascists.

She's obviously against the politics of the BNP, and it looks like she's advocating violence against them more than what Ben did, because of, = fascism. Lisa?

[CupidStunt]

I grew up just off of Melton Road during the 70s and 80s, and the decorations have always said "season's greetings". They never used the word "christmas". It was a decision taken so that all religious festivals around the end of the year are celebrated, and not just the one. If that means that it is the end of the world, then some people really haven't got any real problems to worry about.

So did i on ,Harrison road,and canon street, the signs had various tags on them, I am pretty sure happy Christmas was written on a few of them, i sort of remember vaguely reading an article in the mercury about it, with all the fuss it kicked up

I Might be wrong,but i am 90% sure that what it was about

Therefore, should the government adopt some BNP policies like closing the boarders, sending back the million illegal invaders, asylum seekers? Should the government stop supporting the UAF hooligans? Should the government create jobs for the British ahead of foreigners? Should they ban the black n Asian police, teacher, nurse etc associations?

Do the BNP exist because of the last 60 years of British government policy?

Its of my opinion that this train of thought is more common that what a lot of people think, most people i speak to these days comment on the subject of the influx of foreign workers in this country and the open border policy and how they see its having an detrimental affect on the country.

However, This argument isn't going to get settled in this forum by us or anyone else or on anyone other forum

[Guest Bilo]

The BNP sprung out of the National Front, which in turn rose from the ashes of the British Union of Fascists, the pre-war fascist party that had close links to Adolf Hitler and General Franco.

The founder of the party, John Tyndall, wrote a charming book called The Totalitarian State in the 1960s which propogated the old chestnut that Jews controlled the world using the tool of liberal democracy and that the only cure was an authoritarian or fascist government.

Their leader Nick Griffin refers to the Holocaust as the Holohoax, a typical anti-semitic fascist slur. If you want evidence of their present links to European groups that can't even be bothered to deny their fascist opinions, then click this link.

None of these are opinions or leftist propaganda, they are documented fact.

[davieG]

You do though now understand, that providing credible evidence for something the way you did wasn't the best. Credible isn't who provides it, but what it is. Providing evidence from a marxist is like saying a man's best friend is a shark.

I think you missed my point so I'll repeat it, you would say any view given by someone who is not a BNP activist would be biased so it's impossible to find one in those circumstances, besides most of what was written in that article is fact not opinion and it clearly shows their Facist credentials only blinkered or brainwashed people would think otherwise.

So Labour, Conservatives and Lib Dems are blinkered or brainwashed or an extreamist?

I would class them as blinkered/brainwashed if they believed that everything they stood for was the only solution or policy to follow, which they tend to do and certainly our party political system of using whips to enforce policy votes sustains that.

[Guest]

The evidence is overwhelmingly infavour of Mr Griffin being a victim of far left fascism.

Is that an admitence of fascism by you Lisa? Very much sounds like it.

Just to help you out a bit, as it's clear you don't know what fascism is,

fas·cism play_w2("F0045700") (fshzm)n.1. often Fascisma. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.b. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.2. Oppressive, dictatorial control.

So did i on ,Harrison road,and canon street, the signs had various tags on them, I am pretty sure happy Christmas was written on a few of them, i sort of remember vaguely reading an article in the mercury about it, with all the fuss it kicked up

I Might be wrong,but i am 90% sure that what it was about

IIRC, the lights came about not long after the NF shit in the late 70s/ early 80s, and the idea was social cohesion and integration. That's what we were told in assembly, any way. I didn't care, as it meant more parties!!

[ob1kanobe0]

The BNP sprung out of the National Front, which in turn rose from the ashes of the British Union of Fascists, the pre-war fascist party that had close links to Adolf Hitler and General Franco.

The founder of the party, John Tyndall, wrote a charming book called The Totalitarian State in the 1960s which propogated the old chestnut that Jews controlled the world using the tool of liberal democracy and that the only cure was an authoritarian or fascist government.

Their leader Nick Griffin refers to the Holocaust as the Holohoax, a typical anti-semitic fascist slur. If you want evidence of their present links to European groups that can't even be bothered to deny their fascist opinions, then click this link.

None of these are opinions or leftist propaganda, they are documented fact.

oh my, you use stopthebnp as evidence of who and what they are. New Labour aren't old Labour, BNP aren't NF, Cameron isn't Thatcher, understand?

Describing one holocaust as a holohoax is nothing more that ignorance, nothing to do with fascism If you want to know who and what the BNP are, read their manifesto.

[Webbo]

There is such a load of shit on here (on both sides of the argument), can't somebody just close this thread?

[ob1kanobe0]

Just to help you out a bit, as it's clear you don't know what fascism is,

fas·cism play_w2("F0045700") (fshzm)n.1. often Fascisma. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.b. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.2. Oppressive, dictatorial control.

This is getting silly. What dictionary is that from? 1 says that New Labour/any government/any political party are fascists. 2 says New Labour.

[ob1kanobe0]

There is such a load of shit on here (on both sides of the argument), can't somebody just close this thread?

Why tune in if its a load of shit?

[Guest]

This is getting silly. What dictionary is that from? 1 says that New Labour/any government/any political party are fascists. 2 says New Labour.