College refuses entry to women wearing Veils

[Tommy G]

Do you even know what a veil is, you clueless clown.

Of course I do

Get off your high horse you nobber, your lanky enough without it..

[Dr The Singh]

The Saudi regime have nothing to do with Islam. Obvious surely? Yes, a majority of the people there are Muslims, but the leaders and lawmakers are not.

From what I know, Saudi's propagate Wahibi version of Islam, and if you were to talk to the leaders, they would argue the fact that there laws are Islamic. Unfortunately, the quran, hadiths etc are interpretable, and Mohammed not having himself written the quran, or his biography, has left Islam wide open for a wider range ideals!!!

[BoneDog]

From the islamic people I speak to there seems to be element of 'denial' and a belief that there's alot of anti islamic 'propaganda' against them!! Some it of it maybe the case, as media does mainly highlight the negative aspects of all walks of life, BUT some of it is basically non acceptance of the issues the Islamic people of have not only in the UK but the wider world, although a minority tarnish the majority, denying the minorities attitude is also wrong and placing blame on others is also wrong!!

Are you seriously saying that there is not an 'anti Islam' propaganda game in motion?

And the minority who give Islam a bad name are on the payroll of certain secret services. e.g B Laden and I could name many more but I know it would be pointless. They have been on the payroll since the early 80's as far as I know, maybe longer.

[Webbo]

Are you seriously saying that there is not an 'anti Islam' propaganda game in motion?

Sorry you're going to have to explain that. Why is there an anti-islamic propaganda game in motion?

[Dr The Singh]

Are you seriously saying that there is not an 'anti Islam' propaganda game in motion?

And the minority who give Islam a bad name are on the payroll of certain secret services. e.g B Laden and I could name many more but I know it would be pointless. They have been on the payroll since the early 80's as far as I know, maybe longer.

Empty, if you read what I said after that, I said 'some of it maybe the case........' So actually, I agree there maybe anti islamic propaganda, propagated by the media!!

Mate, you can blame which ever agency you like, the fact is that there is an issue with Islamic elements and committing some really barbaric acts, in the name of Islam, although it's a minority!!!

[BoneDog]

An example, I was with a few muslim friends the other week, mostly pakistani's, 1. and we spoke about the current taliban issue, there arguement was that it's a CIA, Mossad conspiracy and that RAW (Indian agents) were the causes for the problems in the Baluch area also. Ok, so I could in essence believe that such agents are trying to cause trouble. I quizzed the fact the hardliners recruit from Madrassers, religious schools which were in essence funded by muslims, inparticular Saudi's, and that these Madrassers teach a radical version of the quran, and that the taliban or tribals have been following a radical form for centuries, so the arguement about the radical talibans destabilizing pakistan, is an Islamic issue as much if proven, one ragarding the influence of outsiders. They could not see the paradigm, that the radical elements of islam, is a major factor of destabilizing the region, instead they saw these radicals with sharia being the protectorate of islam and islamic values, even though these tribals have caused a wave of attrocities and when I asked them, why do muslims protest at the wests 'colateral' killing of innocents, 2. yet when islamic elements do the same to innocents, there's no protest..............................

1. This is truth. Did you know that in June 2001 the US sent the Taliban $41 million in aid (3 months before Sep 11th)? And that a year before that, that the Taliban high brass were in the US having a private tour round the country with Bill C? I've seen the videos that were not on any news. They even had a trip to Mount Rushmore (I think that's what it's called, where the Presidents are carved into the mountains). All the main players in Taliban and Qaeda are on the payroll. It just helps create an 'enemy', just like they did with Saddam when they sold him chemicals before saying 'look what this bastard is doing to his people'. Also just like they did with Iran when they helped set up their nuclear programme when the Shah (who was only in power thanks to a US backed coup) was in charge. All the mad Mullahs are in the same crew and on the payroll. Yes, they get some followers, but that is what their job is.

2. There are protests where Muslims come out and protest against these things but our news doesn't show it. I have seen some protests myself, and I am not lying.

The fact is that we are being led into another manufactured massive world conflict and there is nothing we can do about it. It is going to happen, well, it has already started happening. And the only people who will suffer are innocent civilians (mainly in Muslim countries) and soldiers who are doing their jobs. The leaders who make these wars will continue to sit pretty and laugh at us, while pretending they care.

[BoneDog]

Someone in a veil asked for my number on Monday.

[BoneDog]

From what I know, Saudi's propagate Wahibi version of Islam, and if you were to talk to the leaders, they would argue the fact that there laws are Islamic. Unfortunately, the quran, hadiths etc are interpretable, and Mohammed not having himself written the quran, or his biography, has left Islam wide open for a wider range ideals!!!

The Koran is exactly as he recited it verse by verse. Hundreds of people around him memorized it at the time. And then it was recorded on paper. And now millions more have memorized it too. It is the only book that a few million people know off by heart. There are even 10 year olds who can say it all out loud from memory. That is the reason it has stayed the same.

[BoneDog]

Empty, if you read what I said after that, I said 'some of it maybe the case........' So actually, I agree there maybe anti islamic propaganda, propagated by the media!!

Mate, you can blame which ever agency you like, the fact is that there is an issue with Islamic elements and committing some really barbaric acts, in the name of Islam, although it's a minority!!!

I agree with you totally, but I'm saying that the groups that commit these acts are not proper Muslims but are set up by certain powers. A proper Muslim would never kill an innocent person or blow themselves up because their book says that is a major sin that will never be forgiven.

[Leicfox]

When would you ever have to interract with a woman in a burka? Probably never.

One of the main reasons women wear this is because they don't believe in mingling with the opposite sex all the time. Only with close friends and family.

And the reason for this is human nature. What happens in western society alot? Affairs, husbands and wives splitting up or being tempted by someone else which ruins families. This is just human nature, people get attracted to eachother easily and it can have disastrous effects. The women who wear the veil keep themselves away from all this grief and spend all their time on family life. It's a good thing, not bad.

I'm not saying that someone who wants to have free love and all that is bad I used to be a player back in the day!

Do these burka wearing women do this by choice? I've always for some reason thought (maybe wrongly) that their husbands make them wear them.

[lou]

Do these burka wearing women do this by choice? I've always for some reason thought (maybe wrongly) that their husbands make them wear them.

In the vast majority of cases its the womans choice. Theyre not all the subservient oppressed females the likes of Nick Griffin would have you believe. Some of the Muslim women I know are the strongest women Ive ever met!

Obviously there are always exceptions but you get that in all walks of life.

[Dr The Singh]

The Koran is exactly as he recited it verse by verse. Hundreds of people around him memorized it at the time. And then it was recorded on paper. And now millions more have memorized it too. It is the only book that a few million people know off by heart. There are even 10 year olds who can say it all out loud from memory. That is the reason it has stayed the same.

Even Islamic scholars agree that there amended copies of the koran prior to the one devised by caliph Umar, as you once said read the 'Encyclopedia Britinica'. Infact in many hadiths there were questions asked which Sura's were missing, and how the sentences and verses should be recited. There's a whole load of evidence, we've had this discussion before, it's like deja vu!!!

[Dr The Singh]

1. This is truth. Did you know that in June 2001 the US sent the Taliban $41 million in aid (3 months before Sep 11th)? And that a year before that, that the Taliban high brass were in the US having a private tour round the country with Bill C? I've seen the videos that were not on any news. They even had a trip to Mount Rushmore (I think that's what it's called, where the Presidents are carved into the mountains). All the main players in Taliban and Qaeda are on the payroll. It just helps create an 'enemy', just like they did with Saddam when they sold him chemicals before saying 'look what this bastard is doing to his people'. Also just like they did with Iran when they helped set up their nuclear programme when the Shah (who was only in power thanks to a US backed coup) was in charge. All the mad Mullahs are in the same crew and on the payroll. Yes, they get some followers, but that is what their job is.

2. There are protests where Muslims come out and protest against these things but our news doesn't show it. I have seen some protests myself, and I am not lying.

The fact is that we are being led into another manufactured massive world conflict and there is nothing we can do about it. It is going to happen, well, it has already started happening. And the only people who will suffer are innocent civilians (mainly in Muslim countries) and soldiers who are doing their jobs. The leaders who make these wars will continue to sit pretty and laugh at us, while pretending they care.

Empty, I must admit, you half ain't entertaining!! This is going off topic again....

1. Every nation, does what it considers in it's best interests, so if that means 'dancing with the devil' or killing civilians it will do. In 2001 I can imagine, the US paying some tribes of the Afghan region, but subsequently, the US has control of Afghan, it has placed a leader who is in US control (Karzai), it has has puppet for a leader in Pakistan. If the aim for control of Afghan as some suggest was to control the oil pipeline from Iran\Iraq through Afghan, Pakistan to the biggest consumers outside US, both India and China (subsequently the whole of asia).......Infact not surprisingly US compnies have won the contract to build the pipeline and maintain it, a contract worth a initial 20 billion dollars, so the US has now full control of the oil supply to the east. BUt, there's a stumbling block, the Taliban have made the country unsafe, and hence made the building of the pipeline very difficult, so if the Taliban were under US control or payroll, why couldn't the US just tell them to stop???????

This war is costing the US billions, it's having to pay the Pakistan government billions. A question must also be asked, as we know the Talibs are tribal, which tribals are under control of US and which are not. There is no cohesion between these tribes, infact everything is very random, the tribals which have been untouched by the war, who follow a strict sharia code are now involved eg the tribals of South Wazirastan. These tribals although part of a bigger nation, do not conform to any government, and agreements were made many years ago to respect each values, these tribals are now like butchers, imposing there beliefs and conquering!! WHat about NWPF, many different cultures live there and in peace, the tribals there are now desicrating other faiths temples, forcing sharia and jaziya. These tribals have nothing in essence to do with the war with the US, there aim is to Islamify.........what would US or any other nation gain in the benefit of this?????

2. You Tube??

You don't need organised protests, it's when you speak to the average muslim on the street, whenever a discussion regarding the west etc, they get puffy cheeks, yet when it's muslim killing muslim or anyone else, it's all blank faces!! I must admit, the media does tend to be one directional, and does generally give a bad impression but that's not just muslims, the media wants to 'sensationalise'!!

[BoneDog]

Do these burka wearing women do this by choice? I've always for some reason thought (maybe wrongly) that their husbands make them wear them.

I agree with what Lou said below your post mate. I know lots of Muslims and trust me, women rule the roost! One of the 'rules' in the Koran is that women are boss of the home. All Muslim women I know are very happy, lively people who enjoy their lives. And most Muslim men I know do not want their wife wearing a full covering. They like the hair scarf thing but not many are fond of that all over thing. I have seen some good documentarys on tele that talk to these covered women and the ones interviewed were very intelligent and happy with what they do.

There are obviously exceptions but there are thousands of white English women in all cities whose lives are made a misery by their men. It's the same for all races, bad and decent people in equal measures (most being decent).

[BoneDog]

Empty, I must admit, you half ain't entertaining!! This is going off topic again....

Every nation, does what it considers in it's best interests, so if that means 'dancing with the devil' or killing civilians it will do. 1. In 2001 I can imagine, the US paying some tribes of the Afghan region, but subsequently, the US has control of Afghan, it has placed a leader who is in US control (Karzai), it has has puppet for a leader in Pakistan. If the aim for control of Afghan as some suggest was to control the oil pipeline from Iran\Iraq through Afghan, Pakistan to the biggest consumers outside US, both India and China (subsequently the whole of asia).......Infact not surprisingly US compnies have won the contract to build the pipeline and maintain it, a contract worth a initial 20 billion dollars, so the US has now full control of the oil supply to the east. 2. BUt, there's a stumbling block, the Taliban have made the country unsafe, and hence made the building of the pipeline very difficult, so if the Taliban were under US control or payroll, why couldn't the US just tell them to stop???????

3. This war is costing the US billions, it's having to pay the Pakistan government billions. A question must also be asked, as we know the Talibs are tribal, which tribals are under control of US and which are not. There is no cohesion between these tribes, infact everything is very random, the tribals which have been untouched by the war, who follow a strict sharia code are now involved eg the tribals of South Wazirastan. These tribals although part of a bigger nation, do not conform to any government, and agreements were made many years ago to respect each values, these tribals are now like butchers, imposing there beliefs and conquering!! WHat about NWPF, many different cultures live there and in peace, the tribals there are now desicrating other faiths temples, forcing sharia and jaziya. These tribals have nothing in essence to do with the war with the US, there aim is to Islamify.........what would US or any other nation gain in the benefit of this?????

1. We agree on these points, that the US pays tribal warlords in all parts of the country. And that one of the main reasons for invading was for this very important (to the US administration) oil pipeline. And that the president of Afghanistan and Pakistan are both US servanst. Most civilians in these countrys don't like these leaders and are the ones who suffer due to the raids that their police and army are sent on. They are not after 'terrorists' on these raids as they say, they are after opposition to their rule. And they take out or imprison the clever folks in the society who can mobilise support for opposition. So these raids are only to protect US interests, which are mainly to fill the pockets of the US high rollers (not US civilians).

We see drone attacks or helicopter attacks on villages every week and these are mostly innocent people who get killed.

2. As for the stumbling block, these so called Taliban are not the same ones who were in power before the US invaded. They were nearly completely destroyed in the first year. The only Talib who were not killed were the leaders who were with the US (some were killed apparantly). These new 'insurgents' are Afghanis who are angry at being invaded and seeing the destruction. All towns and villages were bombed and many continue to be. Hundreds of thousands of people saw family members blown to pieces in front of their eyes, so this is the reason for the continuous flow of new fighters. If people were bombing our towns for years we would also have a massive amount of people who came out to fight the 'enemy'.

So I say that the people who are trying to sabotage the pipeline (even though they are not very succesful) are not the old Taliban who were on the payroll, they are small groups of locals and some foreigners who are against the US.

I have read books by John Simpson and other prominent journalists who have spent many months, sometimes years, in the country and they say different things about the 'insurgents' and even the old Taliban. The only real bad ones in the Taliban were the high brass who were all on the payroll of US and took their orders from them to create the excuse for invading..

3. Yes, this war is costing the US billions, but that money is not coming from the pockets of the elite who started the war and profit from the oil. The billions are coming from US taxpayers (and our taxes). This is why the economy is stumbling so badly. Because all the money that should be used for hospitals and all the other things we are supposed to pay for is being mainly used to fund a war machine.

Most of our money that we pay to keep our country running smoothly is being used to destroy countries and put our soldiers at great risk.

Another way they fund it is through the massive heroin trade in Afghanistan. Did you know that since the invasion that the heroin/opium trade has more than doubled?!!! It is ridiculous. The US has tens of thousands of troops there, flies spy planes over the whole country constantly, has satellites spying on the country and yet apparantly they can't control poppy farmers!!

These fields of poppys take good time to harvest. Their positions are well known and nothing is done to stop them. This tells us 1 thing, that the powers that be are making the money from the trade. Yes, now and again they do an operation and show it on the news just to give the illusion that they are trying to combat the heroin trade, but the reality is opposite.

It is well known that the CIA are heavily involved in the cocaine trade so the heroin trade will be no different. It is a great income for the rulers personal accounts.

[BoneDog]

2. You Tube??

You don't need organised protests, it's when you speak to the average muslim on the street, whenever a discussion regarding the west etc, they get puffy cheeks, yet when it's muslim killing muslim or anyone else, it's all blank faces!! I must admit, the media does tend to be one directional, and does generally give a bad impression but that's not just muslims, the media wants to 'sensationalise'!!

Yes youtube some of them!

A Muslim would never kill another Muslim, or any other religion unless they were fighting a war or someone who killed a relative.

It says in the book that if you kill ANY innocent person, you will not be forgiven. So if they are a Muslim that means they believe in this book, so they wouldn't do it.

All these bombs you see on TV blowing up mosques or bus queues or whatever else, they are not set off by Muslims. They are set off by some group that wants a certain person in that mosque or bus queue dead (and they don't care how many innocent people get caught up in it). Then blamed on Muslims by saying on the news that such and such group has claimed responsibility. (and these groups that pop up are all started by mainly US secret services). I bet ya!

[davieG]

Yes youtube some of them!

A Muslim would never kill another Muslim, or any other religion unless they were fighting a war or someone who killed a relative.

It says in the book that if you kill ANY innocent person, you will not be forgiven. So if they are a Muslim that means they believe in this book, so they wouldn't do it.

All these bombs you see on TV blowing up mosques or bus queues or whatever else, they are not set off by Muslims. They are set off by some group that wants a certain person in that mosque or bus queue dead (and they don't care how many innocent people get caught up in it). Then blamed on Muslims by saying on the news that such and such group has claimed responsibility. (and these groups that pop up are all started by mainly US secret services). I bet ya!

It also says in the Bible thou shalt not kill but it hasn't stopped Christians killing other Christians or other religeous/non-religeous people over the centuries - why are you so convinced that Muslims wouldn't haven't done the same.

As I've said before you profess to be neutral but refuse to see any bad in Muslims but are quite happy to believe that people of every other religion/nation are awash with evil conniving people.

I really don't know why I'm responding to you because you are so one eyed!

[Dr The Singh]

Yes youtube some of them!

A Muslim would never kill another Muslim, or any other religion unless they were fighting a war or someone who killed a relative.

It says in the book that if you kill ANY innocent person, you will not be forgiven. So if they are a Muslim that means they believe in this book, so they wouldn't do it.

All these bombs you see on TV blowing up mosques or bus queues or whatever else, they are not set off by Muslims. They are set off by some group that wants a certain person in that mosque or bus queue dead (and they don't care how many innocent people get caught up in it). Then blamed on Muslims by saying on the news that such and such group has claimed responsibility. (and these groups that pop up are all started by mainly US secret services). I bet ya!

Oh empty aren't we bias!! But the facts say otherwise, so your saying those lashkars or Wazaristani's killing there own, or pak soldiers, aren't muslim killing muslim..............................what about those tribals enforcing there own beliefs on more relaxed muslims, and goignto the extent of killing and maming!!

I can believe that there is a underhand to many bombings, and that they could be influenced by many agencies, infact if you read about the 'Kanishka Bombing' of the Air India Airplane to Canada by so called Sikh Terrorist, investigative journalist and the Canadian Secret Service all point a finger to RAW (Indian Secret Service). Just alittle while ago, in another Canadian enquiry the former head of the Canadian Secret Service, even states that they met a third party (RAW), and knew details of the bombing prior to it, and he was told by his superior that there national interest lies with cooperating with the third party!!!

BUT, I still stand and say, those Sikhs that were on the RAW payroll, were still Sikhs and that there were individual Sikhs that did aide the bombing, I don't make shitty excuses for them, and denounce there Sikhy as 'oh, a true Sikh would never do such and such' because there's no such thing as a true muslim or sikh, to be such they wouldn't be human but like a pure angel, we are all human, and prone to sin and mistakes!!!

[Zingari]

well said Singhy

Did you know that its ok to be gay in India now ?

http://www.watoday.com.au/world/indias-ban...90703-d7go.html

[Dr The Singh]

well said Singhy

Did you know that its ok to be gay in India now ?

http://www.watoday.com.au/world/indias-ban...90703-d7go.html

It's funny, how India accepts the existences of gays in India, but doesn't believe the existence of Sikhs...Article 25 of the indian constitution has Sikhs under the category of Hindus, how racist and erogatory is that, BUMP!!!

[Edmund]

Have nothing against people wearing what they want. It's just a bit of cloth people. Go to Brighton people wear cowboy outfits on the street but you do have to question the ladies who drive with the full on burkha. Surely that impairs there driving

[BoneDog]

1. It also says in the Bible thou shalt not kill but it hasn't stopped Christians killing other Christians or other religeous/non-religeous people over the centuries - why are you so convinced that Muslims wouldn't haven't done the same.

2. As I've said before you profess to be neutral but refuse to see any bad in Muslims but are quite happy to believe that people of every other religion/nation are awash with evil conniving people.

3. I really don't know why I'm responding to you because you are so one eyed!

1. Yes it does say that in the Bible. But all these so-called Christians who do the killing are NOT Christians. The last US president said he was a Christian. Do you really believe that he is?! Surely not. Cos I assure you, he isn't. And the Crusaders weren't Christian either. Some of their army might of been, but the leaders weren't for sure.

2. I am very neutral. I stand up for human beings whatever race, religion, sex or whatever else. As I've said before, anyone who is a Muslim would not kill any innocent person. The ones who go around with guns or bombs are not Muslims. They might be born in a Muslim counrty, but they are gangsters and bandits, not Muslims. I think it's pretty obvious what I am saying.

3. I am certainly not one-eyed. And I don't know why you have such a problem responding to me, I'm not trying to be nasty to anyone. I'm only trying to say that the wars and terrorist atrocities around the world are not started by anyone but our rulers.

Are you in the one-eyed club by any chance?! You know what I mean

And I know they know about me cos I've talked to loads of em, but I'm not bothered.

[Webbo]

1. Yes it does say that in the Bible. But all these so-called Christians who do the killing are NOT Christians. The last US president said he was a Christian. Do you really believe that he is?! Surely not. Cos I assure you, he isn't. And the Crusaders weren't Christian either. Some of their army might of been, but the leaders weren't for sure.

He was christian in the sense that he believed in God and Jesus and went to church and prayed.That makes him a christian in my book, just the same as the muslim terroists are largely devout muslims.

[BoneDog]

Oh empty aren't we bias!! But the facts say otherwise, so your saying those lashkars or Wazaristani's killing there own, or pak soldiers, aren't muslim killing muslim..............................what about those tribals enforcing there own beliefs on more relaxed muslims, and goignto the extent of killing and maming!!

No I'm not biased.

And yes, I am saying that they are NOT Muslim killing Muslims. They are people BORN in Muslim countries killing real Muslims.

Just because they are from Pakistan doesn't make them Muslim. They might of been born Muslim but they certainly aren't anymore. They are gangsters doing the Pakistan governments work for them, which is killing Muslims.

As for the tribal leaders who enforce their ways on villagers, they are not Muslim either. The Muslims in these places are the ones being slaughtered, in Mosques, markets and other places.

How can you think that someone who blows up a Mosque is a Muslim?!! They are just from a Muslim country, but are not practicing Muslims. Fact

[BoneDog]

well said Singhy

No offence to Singh but I don't think it was well said.

To me it just sounds like he's saying that everyone in Pakistan is a Muslim, so it means that when someone kills someone else there it means that a Muslim killed a Muslim.

That's like saying that when there is a murder in America or UK that a Christian killed a Christian.