College refuses entry to women wearing Veils

[Koke]

Singh, other Muslim countries in Middle East and North Africa should not be viewed the same way as Saudi Arabia.

I don't wanna sound like a cock who know better than you, but I've been to a lot of these countries and seen things first hand. The amount of exaggerations is unbelievable.

[Zingari]

Last time I checked Saudi Arabia wasn't the only Muslim country in the world. We know Saudis are barbaric cunts for foucks sake.

I would never defend Saudis but please have some perspective before spouting rubbish, which you've been doing versus Islam since the day I joined this place.

Saudis are racist bigoted knobheads. I went to Hajj in 1999. Santana Heskey (Emile's brother) went in 2004 iirc, and he told me he experienced the same shit I experienced - out and out racism. But because I could speak Arabic, I had an easier ride than he did. So I would never defend them, but this story is bollocks, and so is your perspective and opinions.

so Saudis are barbaric cvnts are they ?

how very enlightened .

we shall have to leave it there as i can't think how i could possibly convince you of anything

[Koke]

so Saudis are barbaric cvnts are they ?

how very enlightened .

we shall have to leave it there as i can't think how i could possibly convince you of anything

I know we have religious fanatics and barbaric cunts in our ranks [mostly Saudis], I've never denied that and never will. And I am their biggest critic.

What else do you wanna convince me of that you haven't read from the Daily Mail?

[Zingari]

I know we have religious fanatics and barbaric cunts in our ranks [mostly Saudis], I've never denied that and never will. And I am their biggest critic.

What else do you wanna convince me of that you haven't read from the Daily Mail?

sorry mate you've played an excellent trump all card there

i know when i'm beaten all the best , no hard feelings eh ?

you can and will no doubt believe what you want to believe (as will I)

[Dr The Singh]

Singh, other Muslim countries in Middle East and North Africa should not be viewed the same way as Saudi Arabia.

I don't wanna sound like a cock who know better than you, but I've been to a lot of these countries and seen things first hand. The amount of exaggerations is unbelievable.

Karim, i'm not trying to undermine Mulsims around the world, I can only say what I know and see, and yes your right, I haven't the vast first hand knowledge of the muslim world as you do, and if i do get it wrong, I apologise but we all agree the minority tarnish the majority. I agree the muslim world varies, in regards to tolerance etc, S Arabia and it's consorts seem very intolerant, and many nations have there own personal issues, eg pakistan with India, Sikhs etc, hence it's for muslims themselves either tackle the issue head on, or except there are issues in certain nations, and certain quarters of islam, rather then being in denial.

An example, I was with a few muslim friends the other week, mostly pakistani's, and we spoke about the current taliban issue, there arguement was that it's a CIA, Mossad conspiracy and that RAW (Indian agents) were the causes for the problems in the Baluch area also. Ok, so I could in essence believe that such agents are trying to cause trouble. I quizzed the fact the hardliners recruit from Madrassers, religious schools which were in essence funded by muslims, inparticular Saudi's, and that these Madrassers teach a radical version of the quran, and that the taliban or tribals have been following a radical form for centuries, so the arguement about the radical talibans destabilizing pakistan, is an Islamic issue as much if proven, one ragarding the influence of outsiders. They could not see the paradigm, that the radical elements of islam, is a major factor of destabilizing the region, instead they saw these radicals with sharia being the protectorate of islam and islamic values, even though these tribals have caused a wave of attrocities and when I asked them, why do muslims protest at the wests 'colateral' killing of innocents, yet when islamic elements do the same to innocents, there's no protest..............................

[l444ry]

I don't like banning things and I want to uphold the right to freedom of expression. Seeing women wearing the full burka may make me feel vaguely uncomfortable but that is not reason enough to ban it. However, it is a symbol of cultural apartheid. The message it sends out is clear: I don't want to be part of British society even though I live here. The burka further ghettoises the women who wear it. But is that enough reason to ban it? We'd never ban a sari, but then saris don't shield a woman's face, do they?

Western women who go to Saudi Arabia are required to respect the dress code of the country and clothe themselves accordingly. Our liberal values don't require the same in return. Sometimes we may be too tolerant for our own good.

The day a woman can wear a bikini on a beach in Saudi Arabia will be the day I will totally accept the burka.

[Tommy G]

Such a non-story.

The college was right on the money on this occasion, but I love when people throw a hissy fit and emotional outburst when it comes to the veil subject.

Yet you are the one to change your picture to a woman wearing a veil?

[Bellend Sebastian]

I think the L1 hard boys should be made to wear them so I don't have to look at their acne.

Urrrgh

[James.]

I think the L1 hard boys should be made to wear them so I don't have to look at their acne.

Urrrgh

On a similar note Lee Jobber's grotesquely overweight stomach makes me feel far more uncomfortable than a woman wearing a veil.

Maybe we should all wear more clothes, not less. I reckon these burkha women have got the right idea.

[Zingari]

I think the L1 hard boys should be made to wear them so I don't have to look at their acne.

Urrrgh

the colour of a person's skin should be irrelevant

so what if it it red with yellow eruptions , does that make them bad people ?

well does it ?

[Dr The Singh]

On a similar note Lee Jobber's grotesquely overweight stomach makes me feel far more uncomfortable than a woman wearing a veil.

Maybe we should all wear more clothes, not less. I reckon these burkha women have got the right idea.

Depends how fit and sexy they are, the munters are more then welcome to wear the burkha, the sexy fitties can wear less as possible, this should keep both sides of the spectrum happy!!!!

[Zingari]

On a similar note Lee Jobber's grotesquely overweight stomach makes me feel far more uncomfortable than a woman wearing a veil.

Maybe we should all wear more clothes, not less. I reckon these burkha women have got the right idea.

try going on top or go for reach around position

[Corky]

I think the L1 hard boys should be made to wear them so I don't have to look at their acne.

Urrrgh

With a nice rendition of "Come on in!"

[Samilktray]

Someone in a veil asked for my number on Monday.

[Koke]

Karim, i'm not trying to undermine Mulsims around the world, I can only say what I know and see, and yes your right, I haven't the vast first hand knowledge of the muslim world as you do, and if i do get it wrong, I apologise but we all agree the minority tarnish the majority. I agree the muslim world varies, in regards to tolerance etc, S Arabia and it's consorts seem very intolerant, and many nations have there own personal issues, eg pakistan with India, Sikhs etc, hence it's for muslims themselves either tackle the issue head on, or except there are issues in certain nations, and certain quarters of islam, rather then being in denial.

An example, I was with a few muslim friends the other week, mostly pakistani's, and we spoke about the current taliban issue, there arguement was that it's a CIA, Mossad conspiracy and that RAW (Indian agents) were the causes for the problems in the Baluch area also. Ok, so I could in essence believe that such agents are trying to cause trouble. I quizzed the fact the hardliners recruit from Madrassers, religious schools which were in essence funded by muslims, inparticular Saudi's, and that these Madrassers teach a radical version of the quran, and that the taliban or tribals have been following a radical form for centuries, so the arguement about the radical talibans destabilizing pakistan, is an Islamic issue as much if proven, one ragarding the influence of outsiders. They could not see the paradigm, that the radical elements of islam, is a major factor of destabilizing the region, instead they saw these radicals with sharia being the protectorate of islam and islamic values, even though these tribals have caused a wave of attrocities and when I asked them, why do muslims protest at the wests 'colateral' killing of innocents, yet when islamic elements do the same to innocents, there's no protest..............................

I'm with you Singh, I know what you mean. A lot of Muslims do live in denials about current affairs which is part of the problem. And unfortunately they are the ones who are being heard and seen the most. Because several Arab media members have spoken out ardently against violent Muslim fundamentalism. Al-Arabia and other news organizations have spoken out against Muslim fanatics and violence time & time again. Al-Jazeera, although are not Saints either, have again spoken out against the enemy within. Several other Arab columnist, political commentators and bloggers have openly condemned terrorist activities as direct contradictions to the tenets of Islam, and have also believe Islamic nations need look at the mirror and take part in collective self-criticism and look at the enemy within.

But the bias and exaggerations of the Western media cannot be over-stated. People actually believe Islam is "the root of all evil" [how many times have I heard that phrase] and Western governments are flawless. This then leads me & others to get defensive and start shifting the blame elsewhere, it's a psychological trend and people do that in all walks of life - and for that reason people on this board as well as outside see me as anti-Western who tries to sweep all the Islamic problems under the carpet, which is far from the truth. I was born in Britain and even though I've spent more time abroad than here, I feel very much this is my home - I could go on all night about this subject.

The day a woman can wear a bikini on a beach in Saudi Arabia will be the day I will totally accept the burka.

What has Saudi Arabia got to do with anything? The day countless of Saudi women wear burkas in England is the day you have a leg to stand on.

Yet you are the one to change your picture to a woman wearing a veil?

Do you even know what a veil is, you clueless clown.

[filbertway]

Someone in a veil asked for my number on Monday.

How did that work out?

[lookwhaticando]

Don't mind me, I'm just popping in to see if anyone's been shot yet.

Well, ta-ta fer now

Do you even know what a veil is, you clueless clown.

Ah! Bullets at last!

[lou]

So lou is your point just that it makes you feel uneasy? In that case I think it's you that has the problem, not the woman wearing the veil. I'm not having a go but from some of the comments in here it just feels like there's a few people with sub concious (or maybe concious) prejudices.

I think Bert alluded to it earlier - maybe it's because I see a lot more women wearing veils than you do given my location and as such I'm used to it.

Either way I still believe people should express themselves as they wish, it's a personal choice. And in the same way, institutions like colleges should have the free right to decide a dress code without fear of being accused of prejudice themselves.

No I just dont like them and think its a shame it separates these women from the rest of society. At no point did I say it makes me uneasy. Like I said, there will always be some with hidden agendas but I will not be accused of being a fascist when Im not. Ive never said they shouldnt be allowed to wear them if they wish to either! I wouldnt feel at all uneasy sitting next to someone wearing one - I just wouldnt feel as able to talk to someone who I cant see, whether they be white, black or brown

As for my location....... Ive lived in the centre of Highfields in the past and was married to a Muslim man from a Muslim family so dont see how Im not used to it

[BoneDog]

No offence but I think thats in itself a bit out of order. Im certainly not a facist and object to the inference that debating this issue makes me one. (unless Ive taken your point the wrong way, of course!) there may be one or two on this thread with a hidden agenda but I thought, on the whole, people have made some valid points on both sides and done it in a sensible non-offensive way.

I do think its still a minority of Muslim women who wear the full veils and a lot of my Muslim friends dont like them either, does that make them fascists too? My exes Father was a very devout Muslim and was probably the finest human being I have had the privilage to know (God rest him) so Im certainly not anti-Islam. Im the sort of person that will talk to people around me on trains and planes etc but rightly or wrongly wouldnt feel able to instigate a conversation with someone whos face was completely covered purely because I cant see their expressions and see if they look open to chatting or not. Contact generally starts with a smile and if you cant see if the other person is smiling or not then its very hard to interact with them (Im probably not explaining myself very well but I know what I mean )

I apologize, I certainly wasn't talking about you when I mentioned fascism. I was talking about people in the media and government who start all this stuff in the first place and get people fighting eachother. (when we should be fighting them w*n*ers, then we would be much better off and I bet you we would all live happily together)

I never thought you was racist or oat

[lou]

I apologize, I certainly wasn't talking about you when I mentioned fascism. I was talking about people in the media and government who start all this stuff in the first place and get people fighting eachother. (when we should be fighting them w*n*ers, then we would be much better off and I bet you we would all live happily together)

I never thought you was racist or oat

Thats ok - I probably took you all wrong! It seems because Ive said I dont like a piece of material some people are automatically trying to tie me in with the BNP lot .

I dont have a problem with the women who wear them just the garment itself. I think its a barrier thats all.

[BoneDog]

You cannot go past the fact that in our society facial expression is an important part of day to day interaction. Choosing to take yourself completely out of that process by covering your face is of course your choice, but as I said if you make that choice you should do so understanding that it makes people uncomfortable. This is nothing to do with racism I would be equally unconfortable with people wearing hoodies and not showing their face or with people wearing motorcycle helmets.

When would you ever have to interract with a woman in a burka? Probably never.

One of the main reasons women wear this is because they don't believe in mingling with the opposite sex all the time. Only with close friends and family.

And the reason for this is human nature. What happens in western society alot? Affairs, husbands and wives splitting up or being tempted by someone else which ruins families. This is just human nature, people get attracted to eachother easily and it can have disastrous effects. The women who wear the veil keep themselves away from all this grief and spend all their time on family life. It's a good thing, not bad.

I'm not saying that someone who wants to have free love and all that is bad I used to be a player back in the day!

[Bellend Sebastian]

the colour of a person's skin should be irrelevant

so what if it it red with yellow eruptions , does that make them bad people ?

well does it ?

It might be what makes them so angry, yes.

If I had skin like that I'd be livid

[BoneDog]

should female muslim students be allowed to flee from a fire if they are not correctly attired ?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1874471.stm

Un-frickin-believable.

But we know that the Saudi regime are not Islamic. The laws they pass are not from Islam e.g women not being allowed to drive.

The regime is just a US puppet who get supplied with all the arms they need (just so they can stay in power) in return for oil. Most Saudis hate their leaders, that is a fact. Most Saudis would love to overthrow the regime, but it is impossible for them.

[Koke]

Un-frickin-believable.

But we know that the Saudi regime are not Islamic. The laws they pass are not from Islam e.g women not being allowed to drive.

The regime is just a US puppet who get supplied with all the arms they need (just so they can stay in power) in return for oil. Most Saudis hate their leaders, that is a fact. Most Saudis would love to overthrow the regime, but it is impossible for them.

Most oppressive regime/country in todays world. But they are a US puppet and it's funny how some people use Saudi Arabia as a tool to ridicule Islam, when the irony of the whole thing is that they're allies with the US, so what does that tell us about the US then?

[BoneDog]

You can personally choose to believe or disbelieve anything ,

But this attitude gives rise to what many perceive as the complete denial of Islamic followers to accept why it is seen by many in the west as a dangerous and oppressive religion .

I am fully aware that other religious groups have been equally barbaric in their history and make no apology for them , but Islam seems uniquely entrenched in ancient beliefs still today ( to western eyes)

The Saudi regime have nothing to do with Islam. Obvious surely? Yes, a majority of the people there are Muslims, but the leaders and lawmakers are not.