College refuses entry to women wearing Veils

[Aixelsyd]

Great driver license

[Benji]

where'd you get my driving license from?

[Simi]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/5411954.stm

Shame the article is three years old.

[lou]

How is a woman covering her face to guard her modesty disrespectful to others or rude?! She is doing it because of what she believes, not to disrespect you or your society. We allow our daughters or sisters to walk down the street in a bikini so why shouldn't we allow someone to walk covered up if they choose?

This whole debate is crazy and smacks of fascism.

(sorry if I take your point the wrong way, I tend to do that alot!)

No offence but I think thats in itself a bit out of order. Im certainly not a facist and object to the inference that debating this issue makes me one. (unless Ive taken your point the wrong way, of course!) there may be one or two on this thread with a hidden agenda but I thought, on the whole, people have made some valid points on both sides and done it in a sensible non-offensive way.

I do think its still a minority of Muslim women who wear the full veils and a lot of my Muslim friends dont like them either, does that make them fascists too? My exes Father was a very devout Muslim and was probably the finest human being I have had the privilage to know (God rest him) so Im certainly not anti-Islam. Im the sort of person that will talk to people around me on trains and planes etc but rightly or wrongly wouldnt feel able to instigate a conversation with someone whos face was completely covered purely because I cant see their expressions and see if they look open to chatting or not. Contact generally starts with a smile and if you cant see if the other person is smiling or not then its very hard to interact with them (Im probably not explaining myself very well but I know what I mean )

[James.]

So lou is your point just that it makes you feel uneasy? In that case I think it's you that has the problem, not the woman wearing the veil. I'm not having a go but from some of the comments in here it just feels like there's a few people with sub concious (or maybe concious) prejudices.

I think Bert alluded to it earlier - maybe it's because I see a lot more women wearing veils than you do given my location and as such I'm used to it.

Either way I still believe people should express themselves as they wish, it's a personal choice. And in the same way, institutions like colleges should have the free right to decide a dress code without fear of being accused of prejudice themselves.

[Zingari]

I cannot see why anyone should feel uncomfortable, intimidated , upset or threatened by the way anyone else chooses to dress and everyone should learn to be more tolerant and allow others to practice their own religion .

We are too intolerant of other people's beliefs

[James.]

I cannot see why anyone should feel uncomfortable, intimidated , upset or threatened by the way anyone else chooses to dress and everyone should learn to be more tolerant and allow others to practice their own religion .

We are too intolerant of other people's beliefs

What the hell has the KKK got to do with anything? What a bizarre thing to post.

[Zingari]

What the hell has the KKK got to do with anything? What a bizarre thing to post.

its just that their dress sense is very similar

[James.]

its just that their dress sense is very similar

For a minute there I thought you were sarcastically inferring a direct comparison between the dangers of tolerance towards the KKK and women wearing veils. Heaven forbid!

[Zingari]

For a minute there I thought you were sarcastically inferring a direct comparison between the dangers of tolerance towards the KKK and women wearing veils. Heaven forbid!

not at all ,

just that there are many in our society that feel ( rightly or wrongly) that Islam is an oppressive and dangerous religion and that the traditional style of dress somehow has deeper meaning to our western psyche .

i'm not saying they are right to feel that way but that there is some justification

it's just human nature to react to symbols ( again rightly or wrongly )

[Jon the Hat]

You cannot go past the fact that in our society facial expression is an important part of day to day interaction. Choosing to take yourself completely out of that process by covering your face is of course your choice, but as I said if you make that choice you should do so understanding that it makes people uncomfortable. This is nothing to do with racism I would be equally unconfortable with people wearing hoodies and not showing their face or with people wearing motorcycle helmets.

[Babylon]

What are the laws when it comes to going through customs. When I came back from Miami a few years back we landed the same time as a flight from Pakistan, we all went through customs at the same time and there were women wearing full veils who just showed a passport and walked straight through without having to take it off.

I didn't know if that was something that happened a lot, or the fact the queue was about 3 miles long meant thy were just rushing people through!?

[Guest Bilo]

What are the laws when it comes to going through customs. When I came back from Miami a few years back we landed the same time as a flight from Pakistan, we all went through customs at the same time and there were women wearing full veils who just showed a passport and walked straight through without having to take it off.

I didn't know if that was something that happened a lot, or the fact the queue was about 3 miles long meant thy were just rushing people through!?

What should be done in that situation is that a woman should be taken into a side room and asked to show her face to a female customs officer, as the point of the veil is not to reveal herself to males that aren't her husband or blood relative. Sounds like they were rushing people through to be honest.

[Dr The Singh]

What should be done in that situation is that a woman should be taken into a side room and asked to show her face to a female customs officer, as the point of the veil is not to reveal herself to males that aren't her husband or blood relative. Sounds like they were rushing people through to be honest.

But the post box burkha isn't deemed neccessary by Islam, so why should special circumstances be made for them to reveal there faces!!

From what i've seem the vieled women, just lifts her viel and flashes her face!!!

[Guest Bilo]

But the post box burkha isn't deemed neccessary by Islam, so why should special circumstances be made for them to reveal there faces!!

From what i've seem the vieled women, just lifts her viel and flashes her face!!!

An interesting point that. It's a choice to wear the burka and not a religious complusion, so perhaps your suggestion would make sense. That isn't the case right now though, rightly or wrongly.

[Dr The Singh]

An interesting point that. It's a choice to wear the burka and not a religious complusion, so perhaps your suggestion would make sense. That isn't the case right now though, rightly or wrongly.

I'm not sure Bilo, whenever i've been flying etc, the Burkha hasn't been a problem, from what i've seen they just flash there faces, this could be because the passport control had a women, maybe if passport control had only men, they could request a private showing with a female controller, but i'm not too sure though!!!

[Zingari]

should female muslim students be allowed to flee from a fire if they are not correctly attired ?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1874471.stm

[Babylon]

should female muslim students be allowed to flee from a fire if they are not correctly attired ?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1874471.stm

Well quite clearly that is f'ing ridiculous. Unbelievable really.

[Koke]

Saudi Arabia are a bunch of far right knobheads with massive superiority complex.

[Guest Bilo]

should female muslim students be allowed to flee from a fire if they are not correctly attired ?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1874471.stm

That really is unbelievable.

Talk about when religion goes bad.......

[Koke]

Even though they are knobheads, I still don't believe that story for one moment.

One witness said he saw three policemen "beating young girls to prevent them from leaving the school because they were not wearing the abaya".

Fuck that bollocks. I know Saudis are cunts, but they're not that despicable.

[Dr The Singh]

Even though they are knobheads, I still don't believe that story for one moment.

One witness said he saw three policemen "beating young girls to prevent them from leaving the school because they were not wearing the abaya".

Fuck that bollocks. I know Saudis are cunts, but they're not that despicable.

There's a couple of ex RAF servicemen that work at our place who were stationed at Saudi with there families, from what they told me about the religious police I could believe it's true!!!!!

[Zingari]

Even though they are knobheads, I still don't believe that story for one moment.

One witness said he saw three policemen "beating young girls to prevent them from leaving the school because they were not wearing the abaya".

Fuck that bollocks. I know Saudis are cunts, but they're not that despicable.

You can personally choose to believe or disbelieve anything ,

But this attitude gives rise to what many perceive as the complete denial of Islamic followers to accept why it is seen by many in the west as a dangerous and oppressive religion .

I am fully aware that other religious groups have been equally barbaric in their history and make no apology for them , but Islam seems uniquely entrenched in ancient beliefs still today ( to western eyes)

[Koke]

You can personally choose to believe or disbelieve anything ,

But this attitude gives rise to what many perceive as the complete denial of Islamic followers to accept why it is seen by many in the west as a dangerous and oppressive religion .

Last time I checked Saudi Arabia wasn't the only Muslim country in the world. We know Saudis are barbaric cunts for foucks sake.

I would never defend Saudis but please have some perspective before spouting rubbish, which you've been doing versus Islam since the day I joined this place.

Saudis are racist bigoted knobheads. I went to Hajj in 1999. Santana Heskey (Emile's brother) went in 2004 iirc, and he told me he experienced the same shit I experienced - out and out racism. But because I could speak Arabic, I had an easier ride than he did. So I would never defend them, but this story is bollocks, and so is your perspective and opinions.

[Dr The Singh]

You can personally choose to believe or disbelieve anything ,

But this attitude gives rise to what many perceive as the complete denial of Islamic followers to accept why it is seen by many in the west as a dangerous and oppressive religion .

I am fully aware that other religious groups have been equally barbaric in their history and make no apology for them , but Islam seems uniquely entrenched in ancient beliefs still today ( to western eyes)

From the islamic people I speak to there seems to be element of 'denial' and a belief that there's alot of anti islamic 'propaganda' against them!! Some it of it maybe the case, as media does mainly highlight the negative aspects of all walks of life, BUT some of it is basically non acceptance of the issues the Islamic people of have not only in the UK but the wider world, although a minority tarnish the majority, denying the minorities attitude is also wrong and placing blame on others is also wrong!!