Debate 2 - What would you cut?

[Head Honcho]

Quangoes have proved to be an horrific waste of money under Labour and need to go.

The benefits system needs to be modernised so those who need them can get access to them, and those who get them without deserving lose their benefits.

The NHS needs reforming, a vital service has turned into a money pit under Labour and the money squandered on managerial perks would be far better spent on frontline staff and equipment.

We need to pull out of Afghanistan as soon as is militarily possible, a wasteful conflict in terms of human lives and money.

Stop pretending that 50% of all children are capable of attending university and put money into vocational training for those who can't. That should stem the horrendous dropout rate in universities and enable those who shouldn't be at uni to find jobs and pay into the system earlier.

The courts are tied up with too many non-crimes like failure to pay Council Tax and the prisons are full to bursting. Less people should go to prison for such offences and community service schemes extended. I do however agree that those convicted of serious crimes should receive heavy prison sentences.

I actually don't feel savage cuts are needed, it's just that this government has wasted so much money on foolhardy projects and badly thought out ideas since 1997 that the money needs to be better directed.

Can you put a price on preventing the Taliban from getting their hands on nuclear weapons?

[Sly]

I'd cut job seekers allowance to £30 a week, flat rate. Id make it on a sliding scale so after 2 months it'd drop to £20, then to £10 after the 4 month period. If you want a job, you'll find a job, whether that's working in a friggin garden centre, as a tax man or a salesman selling ice to an Eskimo.

I'd make incapacity benefit £15, that should stop people sponging off the friggin system.

I'd slap some form of CHAV and Alcoholic tax on the likes of Tennents Supra and Alcopops, to make them about 4 times as expensive. In fact I'd ban the sale of Alcohol in shops for anything under than £2 a can/bottle. That should sort the yobos out. With the money generated, I'd then invest that back into the Police force and allow them to enforce the law rather than push paperwork around. I was scared of the police when I was a kid, the Chav generation isn't, so allowed them to wallop a few and bring them into line.

Scrap the tax credit system, pointless, pointless waste of time, people resources and money.

Close the borders. I support the idea of a diverse/mixed population but unless people have a genuine reason for being here or can seriously offer something than no-one of British nationality can then why should they actually be here? I certainly wouldn't pay these people any form of friggin benefits!! Britain isn't a friggin charity, we've got a multi billion pound hole to dig ourselves out of because of the circus that is running us currently.

Reduce VAT further for 12 months and slap on some stealth taxes elsewhere like an air tax, charge people for breathing or something. Give people an incentive to spend and inject a bit of momentum into the economy!!

Pull the troops back from Afghanistan/Iraq, we are fighting a war there that can't be won. How can you beat people that commit suicide to prove a point?!?! They're willing to die for their cause. It is time we passed control back to the locals.

Put a ban on striking people, if you strike, it's legal for you to get axed, we'll employee someone that wants to work!

Cut expenses for dining out and this second houses melarkey. I'd buy a hotel and everyone can stay in that if they wish, otherwise you can commute like the rest of the working population.

Revalue and re-band council housing. As that's an utter mess!!!

Sort the top level of Government funded bodies like the NHS out, we don't need a committee to make decisions for f**k sake, let just get on with it!! That should slash a few wages.

Banks just need a sort out in general!!

Make kids stay in school until they are 21, or do military service until that age. Their choice they can like it or lump it.

National ID cards, I like the idea personally, should roll this in with the driving license etc to make life easier. I only want one card not two.

[davieG]

Sell offs.

Selling assets is ok but begs the question that if they are saleable why does the Government own them assets in the first place and selling now in a recession means we'll get peanuts for them.

Talk about in the shit!

Brown unveils £16bn assets sale

Gordon Brown outlines the assets which will be sold off

Gordon Brown has set out proposals to reduce the rising budget deficit by raising £16bn from the sale of assets.

The plan is to sell a "portfolio of non-financial assets" held by Whitehall and local authorities over two years.

In a speech on the economy, the prime minister outlined sales which may raise £3bn, including the Tote, Dartford crossing and the student loan book.

But he has already been criticised by opposition MPs, who say he needs to do much more to cut public spending.

Downing Street said the sale marks the beginning of a radical assessment of what other non-core government business activities can best be done by, or in partnership with, the private sector.

Aides added that although these actions are important, a vital force for debt reduction will be the restoration of strong, sustainable growth within the economy.

In April, Chancellor Alistair Darling forecast that public borrowing would reach a record £175bn over the next two years.

The funds raised will help finance new capital investment and pay down debt, Mr Brown said.

'Depressed markets'

The initial offering will also include the Channel Tunnel rail link.

The government's 33% stake in Urenco, a European consortium which supplies equipment to enrich uranium for the nuclear industry, will be offered but the PM will insist there will be no threat to national security.

The government will also sell surplus real estate which is part of the £220bn owned by its departments and agencies.

Ahead of the speech Lord Mandelson told BBC Radio 4's Today the sell-offs, which he said was an alternative to "savage" cuts planned by the Conservatives, could include local authority-owned airports.

Mr Brown also said premature cuts risked "snuffing out" the economic recovery when the job of fixing the global economy was only half done.

The PM, who said he was an optimist, also said economic experts did not back the Tory plans.

However, Mr Brown will concede that the "growth of overall spending" must be reduced after April 2011, by "cutting back on low priority programmes, increasing efficiency and productivity and unwinding the programmes that have been put in place to support demand over the last year".

Cameron: ''We must get good value for money''

The Conservatives said the sale was "probably necessary" but "no substitute for a long-term plan".

Leader David Cameron said: "Obviously we do need to do this, but we must make sure - as every family knows - if you sell something it can help you in the short term, but it doesn't actually help you live within your means in the long term.

"So, we've still got to get to grips with public spending, get to grips with the deficit - and we must make sure we get good value for money.

"Let's not forget, this is the prime minister who sold our gold reserves and if he'd sold them later he could have got four times the quantity. So, let's not have any more incompetence from him."

Liberal Democrat Treasury spokesman Vince Cable said the policy was fundamentally flawed.

He said: "What worries me about the government proposal is that they're proposing to sell off in very depressed markets, under very depressed markets for land and for shares."

Margaret Eaton, chairman of the Local Government Association, said she was amazed the announcement had been made without consulting her organisation.

[fox123]

Privatise The Tote

Wonder if Mr Brown has advisors reading this thread

[Jon the Hat]

Where is Larry when you need an explanation of a Labour policy? How is it a good idea to sell stuff when you are clearly desperate for the cash? I cannot believe they are suggesting this is a real alternative to spending cuts.

Edit: Actually while you are at it, why not cover Gordon Brown's £12,000+ repayment of expenses. Now that is what Labour stand for!

[breadandcheese]

Selling assets is ok but begs the question that if they are saleable why does the Government own them assets in the first place and selling now in a recession means we'll get peanuts for them.

Sounds like a similar question I ask when the government announces that they're going to implement efficiency savings to help tackle the debt. Does this mean they've been happily paying over the odds with our taxpayer money by not looking for efficiencies continually?

[lou]

Can you put a price on preventing the Taliban from getting their hands on nuclear weapons?

Not to mention leaving the job half done means all those who have lost their lives have done so for absolutely nothing. The guys I know who are over there fighting dont want to pull out, they know why they are there and just want to get the job done. Im not saying I think we should have gone in but I think its too late to stop now. The Taliban have been pushed back from a lot of areas already they need to be eradicated. One of the lads I know is on home leave right now after breaking his ankle and cant wait to get back out there, he loves it.

I just wish our government would give our lads and girls out there the right amount and quality of equipment!

[davieG]

Not to mention leaving the job half done means all those who have lost their lives have done so for absolutely nothing. The guys I know who are over there fighting dont want to pull out, they know why they are there and just want to get the job done. Im not saying I think we should have gone in but I think its too late to stop now. The Taliban have been pushed back from a lot of areas already they need to be eradicated. One of the lads I know is on home leave right now after breaking his ankle and cant wait to get back out there, he loves it.

I just wish our government would give our lads and girls out there the right amount and quality of equipment!

Always assuming of course that someone somewhere believes want ever we're fighting is winnable. I'm reminded of both the French and Americans failing in Vietnam as well as the Russians failing to control Afghanistan before the West got involved.

Sometimes the right decision is to stop, I don't know if there is a case to stop or to carry on but I do know I have little confidence in whoever might end up running the country sorting it out.

[Head Honcho]

Where is Larry when you need an explanation of a Labour policy? How is it a good idea to sell stuff when you are clearly desperate for the cash? I cannot believe they are suggesting this is a real alternative to spending cuts.

Edit: Actually while you are at it, why not cover Gordon Brown's £12,000+ repayment of expenses. Now that is what Labour stand for!

Yeh because the Tories got top dollar for British Rail and BT didn't they

I disagree wholehearted with privatisation but for a Tory to slag Labour off for doing it is a bit rich isn't it?

[Zingari]

Always assuming of course that someone somewhere believes want ever we're fighting is winnable. I'm reminded of both the French and Americans failing in Vietnam as well as the Russians failing to control Afghanistan before the West got involved.

Sometimes the right decision is to stop, I don't know if there is a case to stop or to carry on but I do know I have little confidence in whoever might end up running the country sorting it out.

maybe the idea/intention is not to actually win wars any more but to sustain them ,

Perpetual War, Perpetual Terror, keeps the military industrial complex in mega bucks. Halliburton and Carlyle seem to be doing very nicely out of wars and guess who has huge interests in them ?

just a thought !

[MPH]

I'd cut job seekers allowance to £30 a week, flat rate. Id make it on a sliding scale so after 2 months it'd drop to £20, then to £10 after the 4 month period. If you want a job, you'll find a job, whether that's working in a friggin garden centre, as a tax man or a salesman selling ice to an Eskimo.

i have applied for over 50 Jobs since the end of July. I apply for Jobs every day.. I am just in the wrong age bracket experience or somthing. This is the first time in 20 years i have been without a Job. Mcdonalds wont employ me and neither can i get a Job in a warehouse.. i cant get any agency work as im told by all of them ( i call them EVERY week without fail) that they already have hundreds of workers on their books already they dont have work for.

Im not sure if you are aware, but there are actually more people unemployed than there are Jobs available...

[davieG]

maybe the idea/intention is not to actually win wars any more but to sustain them ,

Perpetual War, Perpetual Terror, keeps the military industrial complex in mega bucks. Halliburton and Carlyle seem to be doing very nicely out of wars and guess who has huge interests in them ?

just a thought !

I have equally cynical thoughts that they need warsto use up all the 'old equipment' so that they can replace it with latest stuff

[l444ry]

Yeh because the Tories got top dollar for British Rail and BT didn't they

I disagree wholehearted with privatisation but for a Tory to slag Labour off for doing it is a bit rich isn't it?

And Margaret's BP giveaway sale has cost this country far, far more in lost profits than the gold reserve sale which Brown cocked up (with hindsight). A fact which should be highlighted more often.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

One view could be to cut nothing and take a chance - let me explain my thinking...

because although the French and no doubt some other nations would love to see us as a nation go bankrupt, I couldn't see it being sustainable for the world ecomony and they may well have to bail us out so to speak.

Theres a pretty penny that we have invested in the UK banks, so the interest we SHOULD get back from this, along with the £30 rejected DD fees and the like, will hopefully keep pace with the interest we as a nation are paying.

Plus, if we could get the media to spin the story so that the news coming out of Britian is everything is ok I think this would be enough to save us from meltdown, afterall the figures we are talking about are not necessary real money, just numbers being exchange on a computer aren't they?

900 billion deficit - pretend its not there, shut the curtains and if the French (debt collectors) come knocking pretend we're not in or turn the TV up really loud.

That sounds like a plan to me!

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Labour have lost it. They don't have the support of the country and even if they are doing some good things and getting the economy back on track, doing all the right things to sort this mess out, they are completely cast aside by the sheer determination of the public to oust them as soon as possible as they see it as the only way to get change.

The Tories have come in looking organised and like they know what they are doing and like they are the government in waiting, but it'll be more of the same if they get in. They may portray an image of change and being a fresh new party, but you only have to look at who they'll have in their cabinet to know damn fine that nothing will be changing. Yet the MAJOR problem is that this, for the overwhelming majority of the public, the Tory party is the only party that can be voted for if they want Labour out...

... leaving the Lib Dems who would be the REAL change from the two big parties and could be just the fresh start we need. They have some excellent politicians in their benches who would do a fantastic job, yet because they are seen as being the fringe third party of the country, people just don't even consider them as a possibility like they should. Although it seems like they don't know where they stand, that just isn't true, they've given away just as much of what they'd do in office as any of the other two parties and clearly pointed out some big changes they'd make too.

I for one will seriously consider voting Lib Dem in the next election as I see them as a real change from Labour and I know damn fine that it wouldn't be like taking the risk of letting the Tories back in to reek havoc once again.

You won't though will you!

Part of me wonders if Gordon Brown has had such a bad time, people may feel sorry/assume he can't do much worse and go off the smug Tory machine as it is far to much like new labour in a blue suit?

There may be a big twist to this election, especially as the North have recently realised they don't want to vote conservative, they want every reason to vote Labour and it seems the party are trying to some extent to make a fist of it.

There is still a few big players in the Labour party, remember Mandy is very much in the foreground now and will no doubt get some of the core Labour vote out.

[Jon the Hat]

And Margaret's BP giveaway sale has cost this country far, far more in lost profits than the gold reserve sale which Brown cocked up (with hindsight). A fact which should be highlighted more often.

I am not critising the sales, just the timing of them and the idea that this is somehow a solution to a structural deficit in pulbic spending.

Privatisation under Maggie made a whole swathe of the nation shareholders. not to mention homeowners. It changed the face of Britain.

[Jon the Hat]

One view could be to cut nothing and take a chance - let me explain my thinking...

because although the French and no doubt some other nations would love to see us as a nation go bankrupt, I couldn't see it being sustainable for the world ecomony and they may well have to bail us out so to speak.

Theres a pretty penny that we have invested in the UK banks, so the interest we SHOULD get back from this, along with the £30 rejected DD fees and the like, will hopefully keep pace with the interest we as a nation are paying.

Plus, if we could get the media to spin the story so that the news coming out of Britian is everything is ok I think this would be enough to save us from meltdown, afterall the figures we are talking about are not necessary real money, just numbers being exchange on a computer aren't they?

900 billion deficit - pretend its not there, shut the curtains and if the French (debt collectors) come knocking pretend we're not in or turn the TV up really loud.

That sounds like a plan to me!

Gordon? Is that you Gordon? Please could you get on with it and resign. You know this won't work, and we are not a focus group.