unreachable Posted 9 September 2010 Posted 9 September 2010 It is interesting to read the posts by Fosse Boy and 1964FOX and their commitment to achieve their aims and objectives must be admired. Their posts state that “there is more detail to the agreement” and “full details can be released as the fine detail and methods of working” are confirmed. I fear that the devil will be in the detail and am unclear why there should be much cause for optimism. The club has made minimal concessions but has succeeded in identifying a route to keep tight control on the group by seemingly limiting the Fosse Boys to an allocated part of the ground which will make it easier for the club to steward/police the group and deal with the unresolved standing issue. Fosse Boy states that NO agreement has been made with regard to: 1. Persistent standing. His reference to contacting the Football Licensing Authority to discuss matters is unlikely to assist in reaching an agreement concerning standing. 2. Large scale TIFO displays. These still require prior agreement so no free hand given to Fosse Boys. 3. Flags and banners. Type of flags and method of flag waving still to be agreed. Perhaps my reading is unreasonably pessimistic but my reading of events is that the Club has played its hand diplomatically and has offered no concessions which breach the Ground Regulations or endanger any conditions attached to the Stadium’s Safety Certificate. The club have skilfully taken the impetus from the Fosse Boys and I can’t see the Leicester Mercury or media advancing the cause. There is no more sound bites and The Leicester Mercury won’t run a headline saying “Shock Horror. Fosse Boys can sit down and sing their hearts out”. I’m looking forward to seeing the fine detail of the agreement and feel that the update today doesn’t show much evidence that the cause of the Fosse Boys has advanced materially.
FoxyPV Posted 9 September 2010 Posted 9 September 2010 Congrats to the FB for all the success so far and hopefully there will be more in the future.
hairy Posted 9 September 2010 Posted 9 September 2010 It is interesting to read the posts by Fosse Boy and 1964FOX and their commitment to achieve their aims and objectives must be admired. Their posts state that “there is more detail to the agreement” and “full details can be released as the fine detail and methods of working” are confirmed. I fear that the devil will be in the detail and am unclear why there should be much cause for optimism. The club has made minimal concessions but has succeeded in identifying a route to keep tight control on the group by seemingly limiting the Fosse Boys to an allocated part of the ground which will make it easier for the club to steward/police the group and deal with the unresolved standing issue. Fosse Boy states that NO agreement has been made with regard to: 1. Persistent standing. His reference to contacting the Football Licensing Authority to discuss matters is unlikely to assist in reaching an agreement concerning standing. 2. Large scale TIFO displays. These still require prior agreement so no free hand given to Fosse Boys. 3. Flags and banners. Type of flags and method of flag waving still to be agreed. Perhaps my reading is unreasonably pessimistic but my reading of events is that the Club has played its hand diplomatically and has offered no concessions which breach the Ground Regulations or endanger any conditions attached to the Stadium’s Safety Certificate. The club have skilfully taken the impetus from the Fosse Boys and I can’t see the Leicester Mercury or media advancing the cause. There is no more sound bites and The Leicester Mercury won’t run a headline saying “Shock Horror. Fosse Boys can sit down and sing their hearts out”. I’m looking forward to seeing the fine detail of the agreement and feel that the update today doesn’t show much evidence that the cause of the Fosse Boys has advanced materially. But they are allowed in the ground now so someone at the club has been 'corrected' on their original stance and the club are talking to them. Surely these are big positives for the group.
1964FOX Posted 9 September 2010 Posted 9 September 2010 It is interesting to read the posts by Fosse Boy and 1964FOX and their commitment to achieve their aims and objectives must be admired. Their posts state that “there is more detail to the agreement” and “full details can be released as the fine detail and methods of working” are confirmed. I fear that the devil will be in the detail and am unclear why there should be much cause for optimism. The club has made minimal concessions but has succeeded in identifying a route to keep tight control on the group by seemingly limiting the Fosse Boys to an allocated part of the ground which will make it easier for the club to steward/police the group and deal with the unresolved standing issue. Fosse Boy states that NO agreement has been made with regard to: 1. Persistent standing. His reference to contacting the Football Licensing Authority to discuss matters is unlikely to assist in reaching an agreement concerning standing. 2. Large scale TIFO displays. These still require prior agreement so no free hand given to Fosse Boys. 3. Flags and banners. Type of flags and method of flag waving still to be agreed. Perhaps my reading is unreasonably pessimistic but my reading of events is that the Club has played its hand diplomatically and has offered no concessions which breach the Ground Regulations or endanger any conditions attached to the Stadium’s Safety Certificate. The club have skilfully taken the impetus from the Fosse Boys and I can’t see the Leicester Mercury or media advancing the cause. There is no more sound bites and The Leicester Mercury won’t run a headline saying “Shock Horror. Fosse Boys can sit down and sing their hearts out”. I’m looking forward to seeing the fine detail of the agreement and feel that the update today doesn’t show much evidence that the cause of the Fosse Boys has advanced materially. To answer your points 1) Persistant standing, always was going to be the sticking point, contact with FLA may pave a way for the club to be able to change it's stance. Not saying it will but there are ideas we have that have the support of the club officials. 2) Large scale TIFO's need large numbers and careful planning it would be foolish to think this could be done in a suitable manner to provide 'something special' without talking to the club. We are a long way from doing anything on a large scale at present that will come with time. 3) I can confirm that there is no limit on amount of flags or size of flags, banners. Our main banner WILL be formally displayed in a prominent position, only issue is sorting out a safe method of waving (which I have written confirmation will be sorted once agreement signed). My apologies for the original post as it does misread, my fault as I helped Fosseboy put it together. Also we will be in the part of the ground we wanted, suits us and it suits the club. So our aims are not unreachable and yes the fine detail is important but there is an obvious will for us to work together towards the same aim. Hoping to cure your pessimistic outlook.
Houdini Logic Posted 9 September 2010 Posted 9 September 2010 It is interesting to read the posts by Fosse Boy and 1964FOX and their commitment to achieve their aims and objectives must be admired. Their posts state that “there is more detail to the agreement” and “full details can be released as the fine detail and methods of working” are confirmed. I fear that the devil will be in the detail and am unclear why there should be much cause for optimism. The club has made minimal concessions but has succeeded in identifying a route to keep tight control on the group by seemingly limiting the Fosse Boys to an allocated part of the ground which will make it easier for the club to steward/police the group and deal with the unresolved standing issue. Fosse Boy states that NO agreement has been made with regard to: 1. Persistent standing. His reference to contacting the Football Licensing Authority to discuss matters is unlikely to assist in reaching an agreement concerning standing. 2. Large scale TIFO displays. These still require prior agreement so no free hand given to Fosse Boys. 3. Flags and banners. Type of flags and method of flag waving still to be agreed. Perhaps my reading is unreasonably pessimistic but my reading of events is that the Club has played its hand diplomatically and has offered no concessions which breach the Ground Regulations or endanger any conditions attached to the Stadium’s Safety Certificate. The club have skilfully taken the impetus from the Fosse Boys and I can’t see the Leicester Mercury or media advancing the cause. There is no more sound bites and The Leicester Mercury won’t run a headline saying “Shock Horror. Fosse Boys can sit down and sing their hearts out”. I’m looking forward to seeing the fine detail of the agreement and feel that the update today doesn’t show much evidence that the cause of the Fosse Boys has advanced materially. Genuine question - why do you feel you need to post on this matter? I'd have more time for you if you genuinely didn't like the Fosse Boys, but you cleverly mask in a third party context. Some people may think you're just here to wind people up, but I thought it was only fair to give you a chance and ask - why do you care so much to post on this subject?
Guest Bilo Posted 9 September 2010 Posted 9 September 2010 Genuine question - why do you feel you need to post on this matter? I'd have more time for you if you genuinely didn't like the Fosse Boys, but you cleverly mask in a third party context. Some people may think you're just here to wind people up, but I thought it was only fair to give you a chance and ask - why do you care so much to post on this subject? Question answered I believe.....
filbertway Posted 9 September 2010 Posted 9 September 2010 To be fair I agree with what unreachable is saying, I don't think he's intending to be spiteful towards the fosse boy's. The only progress seems to be the club are willing to allow you boys back into the section, you're even being told the way that you have to wave the flag?? Either way, I support what the group's doing and I'm hoping the fosse boys can get their own identity eventually and not have to be controlled by the club in what you do. This reminds me of N block though, the club appearing to be making concessions with a group allowing them to take in certain things to improve the atmosphere. I just hope your main leaders aren't ejected and the group killed within a few months! Good luck anyway lads (and ladies) it would be nice to see the group grow and in the future hearing away fans coming from the ground being impressed with the atmosphere created within the ground. Apologies for sounding cynical
unreachable Posted 9 September 2010 Posted 9 September 2010 Genuine question - why do you feel you need to post on this matter? I'd have more time for you if you genuinely didn't like the Fosse Boys, but you cleverly mask in a third party context. Some people may think you're just here to wind people up, but I thought it was only fair to give you a chance and ask - why do you care so much to post on this subject? I don’t dislike the Fosse Boys. I am a season ticket holder and have supported the club since the 1960’s and have been upset by the negative image which the club has been receiving from the Leicester Mercury, Radio Leicester and the media generally. I am not aware of any precedent to a club agreeing a formal agreement in the terms that the Fosse Boys appear to consider to be achievable. As a fan I am interested in the affairs of the club and my professional background in handling legal issues and mediation naturally draw me to contentious issues where I like to research the legal position and then base my opinions on a stable footing and treat the Fosse Boys as quasi-clients. Rather patronisingly, I admit, I have simply expressed the wish that fans have realistic dreams (perhaps a contradiction in terms!) and at least have some idea of the legal issues involved. A lot of the hysteria in this thread is whipped up on the basis of ill-informed opinion and readiness to believe rumours, gossip and conspiracy theories. A lot of the content on FoxesTalk takes a default position that the club is being unreasonable and I feel that the club I support should be given the benefit of the doubt and not cast as the evil opposition. 1964FOX did apologise for a misleading part of Fosse Boy post relating to flags so maybe I am helping to clarify the issues. I want the Fosse Boys and other fans to improve the atmosphere at the ground but am long enough in the tooth to know that many tough compromises will have to be made which I doubt will be happen. I wasn’t going to post for a while but am doing so in response to your post.
Houdini Logic Posted 9 September 2010 Posted 9 September 2010 I don’t dislike the Fosse Boys. I am a season ticket holder and have supported the club since the 1960’s and have been upset by the negative image which the club has been receiving from the Leicester Mercury, Radio Leicester and the media generally. I am not aware of any precedent to a club agreeing a formal agreement in the terms that the Fosse Boys appear to consider to be achievable. As a fan I am interested in the affairs of the club and my professional background in handling legal issues and mediation naturally draw me to contentious issues where I like to research the legal position and then base my opinions on a stable footing and treat the Fosse Boys as quasi-clients. Rather patronisingly, I admit, I have simply expressed the wish that fans have realistic dreams (perhaps a contradiction in terms!) and at least have some idea of the legal issues involved. A lot of the hysteria in this thread is whipped up on the basis of ill-informed opinion and readiness to believe rumours, gossip and conspiracy theories. A lot of the content on FoxesTalk takes a default position that the club is being unreasonable and I feel that the club I support should be given the benefit of the doubt and not cast as the evil opposition. 1964FOX did apologise for a misleading part of Fosse Boy post relating to flags so maybe I am helping to clarify the issues. I want the Fosse Boys and other fans to improve the atmosphere at the ground but am long enough in the tooth to know that many tough compromises will have to be made which I doubt will be happen. I wasn’t going to post for a while but am doing so in response to your post. OK - so you don't want the club to be seen in a negative light, that's fair enough. I'd have thought the most recent statement from Fosse Boy would be music to your ears - it looks as though the club and the FBs are finally coming to an agreement and working together, something the club have echoed on the OS. so with all that - why such a negative post from you? To be fair I agree with what unreachable is saying, I don't think he's intending to be spiteful towards the fosse boy's. The only progress seems to be the club are willing to allow you boys back into the section, you're even being told the way that you have to wave the flag?? Either way, I support what the group's doing and I'm hoping the fosse boys can get their own identity eventually and not have to be controlled by the club in what you do. This reminds me of N block though, the club appearing to be making concessions with a group allowing them to take in certain things to improve the atmosphere. I just hope your main leaders aren't ejected and the group killed within a few months! Good luck anyway lads (and ladies) it would be nice to see the group grow and in the future hearing away fans coming from the ground being impressed with the atmosphere created within the ground. Apologies for sounding cynical He is actually saying something?! Doesn't seem that way to me...
unreachable Posted 9 September 2010 Posted 9 September 2010 OK - so you don't want the club to be seen in a negative light, that's fair enough. I'd have thought the most recent statement from Fosse Boy would be music to your ears - it looks as though the club and the FBs are finally coming to an agreement and working together, something the club have echoed on the OS. so with all that - why such a negative post from you? He is actually saying something?! Doesn't seem that way to me... I don 't regard my post as negative. It is intended to be reasonable and neutral. filbertway seems to agree with me so perhaps you could quiz filbertway on his/her take of the situation.
Houdini Logic Posted 9 September 2010 Posted 9 September 2010 I don 't regard my post as negative. It is intended to be reasonable and neutral. filbertway seems to agree with me so perhaps you could quiz filbertway on his/her take of the situation. You see - I'd tend to disagree. I think your post was very negative and you didn't pick up on any of the positives struck between the club and FBs (which is odd - being that all you want to do is make sure the club aren't misrepresented?!). Though of course it's not OK for the FBs to be selective about what they talk about! I would ask filbertway, but I'd hate for you to be misrepresented
Stand UP... Posted 9 September 2010 Posted 9 September 2010 We can clarify the following now we have agreed to move forward with the club: • There is no issue with noise; we have permission to be as loud as we are able to be. • We will have are own allocated section in the ground. • Nobody will be refused admission to the stadium for wearing a Fosse Boys scarf or any other form of Fosse Boys identification. • Nobody will be refused to go to their allocated seat for having an association with the Fosse Boys. • This agreement is subject to the group being allowed flags and banners including an agreed method of waving our flags. • TIFO (displays) will be allowed with prior agreement with the club (large scale – small scale no issue). • Regular meetings will be held with the club. • Correct and clear lines of communication between LCFC and the Fosse Boys will be established. • LCFC will not introduce any change to things agreed without formally communicating with the Fosse Boys. • LCFC will work with the Fosse Boys to improve the atmosphere at the Walkers stadium. PERSISTENT STANDING – This is the one issue we were unable to come to an agreement on. We put forward our take on the meaning of persistent and LCFC had a different view point. We will continue to work together to find a solution that is agreeable to the Fosse Boys and LCFC. We are contacting the Football Licensing Authority to discuss this matter with them so an agreement can be made. Sounds very promising, but the persistent standing not being allowed (which we all knew wouldnt) is a big let down. The major method of Ultra groups is Standing so you must be pretty gutted by this, but like you say hopefully some agreement can be made. Top stuff boys
Stand UP... Posted 9 September 2010 Posted 9 September 2010 I don’t dislike the Fosse Boys. I am a season ticket holder and have supported the club since the 1960’s and have been upset by the negative image which the club has been receiving from the Leicester Mercury, Radio Leicester and the media generally. I am not aware of any precedent to a club agreeing a formal agreement in the terms that the Fosse Boys appear to consider to be achievable. Well you was not this supportive the other night and seemed to be taking the piss on this subject, hence why people respond to you as a troll etc or can not take you seriously on this subject. Such as:- View PostdavieG, on 02 September 2010 - 12:25 AM, said: Which means you're either biased against the Fosse Boys just for the sakes of it or to cause unrest on the forum or a troll, actually just a troll then. Unreachable - I just post to admire the intellectual rigour of the replies to my posts. View PostdavieG, on 02 September 2010 - 12:15 AM, said: Seeing as you like to question every aspect of the Fosse Boys existence I would hope you've been as equally diligent and persistent (there's that word again) in asking LCFC why they are so inconsistent with their interpretation of their standing regulations and that you therefore have the answers by now. Unreachable - I'm not really that interested. and Wymeswold fox, on 02 September 2010 - 12:13 AM, said: i wondered that many times and i still do now. Try not to say summin that pees people off on here which is easy to do Unreachable Yes I know you have to toe the party line but it is fun playing devil's advocate. It sharpens other people's views. That is why houdini questioned quite politely may i add your fascination behind this topic. PISS TAKER i think just about covers it.
Lillehamring Posted 9 September 2010 Posted 9 September 2010 To be fair I agree with what unreachable is saying, I don't think he's intending to be spiteful towards the fosse boy's. The only progress seems to be the club are willing to allow you boys back into the section, you're even being told the way that you have to wave the flag?? Either way, I support what the group's doing and I'm hoping the fosse boys can get their own identity eventually and not have to be controlled by the club in what you do. This reminds me of N block though, the club appearing to be making concessions with a group allowing them to take in certain things to improve the atmosphere. I just hope your main leaders aren't ejected and the group killed within a few months! Good luck anyway lads (and ladies) it would be nice to see the group grow and in the future hearing away fans coming from the ground being impressed with the atmosphere created within the ground. Apologies for sounding cynical the fact that the FB are being allowed to congregate unhindered is the only thing they really needed, every thing else is just a bonus. The secret to the FB succeeding is numbers - the club will always have to toe the line re ground regs where it is seen to be practicable, ie 20-50 fans, if the FB can get significant percentages of the cop involved, the club will be able to apply the same policy as they do to the other areas where standing is common place. the chances of them getting these numbers are now much more realistic, thanks to the silly way the club behaved. personally, i am very pleased for all of the FB people. i think the club have been very gracious, and don't share unreachable's inevitable belief that they will still spoil this before it gets started. they have had some awful publicity thus far and the media will be on them like a shot if they appear in any way to go against this written agreement. time and patience will be the key factors here, and the way the FB have handled it so far gives no reason to suggest they won't manage it well from here on in-
unreachable Posted 9 September 2010 Posted 9 September 2010 the fact that the FB are being allowed to congregate unhindered is the only thing they really needed, every thing else is just a bonus. The secret to the FB succeeding is numbers - the club will always have to toe the line re ground regs where it is seen to be practicable, ie 20-50 fans, if the FB can get significant percentages of the cop involved, the club will be able to apply the same policy as they do to the other areas where standing is common place. the chances of them getting these numbers are now much more realistic, thanks to the silly way the club behaved. personally, i am very pleased for all of the FB people. i think the club have been very gracious, and don't share unreachable's inevitable belief that they will still spoil this before it gets started. they have had some awful publicity thus far and the media will be on them like a shot if they appear in any way to go against this written agreement. time and patience will be the key factors here, and the way the FB have handled it so far gives no reason to suggest they won't manage it well from here on in- I think you have missed my point. There is no written agreement yet. Fosse Boy and 1964FOX clearly state that. An agreement to agree is not legally an agreement. It is too uncertain. Until a formal agreement has been reached we won't know what the current negotiations are going to achieve.
Houdini Logic Posted 9 September 2010 Posted 9 September 2010 I think you have missed my point. There is no written agreement yet. Fosse Boy and 1964FOX clearly state that. An agreement to agree is not legally an agreement. It is too uncertain. Until a formal agreement has been reached we won't know what the current negotiations are going to achieve. You do know this is a thread about the Fosse Boys and not the Treaty of Versailles?
unreachable Posted 9 September 2010 Posted 9 September 2010 You do know this is a thread about the Fosse Boys and not the Treaty of Versailles? I was simply pointing out that posters easily put an over optimistic view on matters without appreciating that nothing has yet been formally agreed.
1964FOX Posted 9 September 2010 Posted 9 September 2010 I was simply pointing out that posters easily put an over optimistic view on matters without appreciating that nothing has yet been formally agreed. You are right nothing is agreed until the deal is confirmed but this was an update to tell people who have kindly supported us what is happening and let them know that things have moved forward from the events of the Reading game. Of course we will be much happier once it is signed and sealed but clear progress has been made and that is thanks to some honest and reasonable debate btween the Fosse Boys and LCFC.
Lillehamring Posted 9 September 2010 Posted 9 September 2010 I was simply pointing out that posters easily put an over optimistic view on matters without appreciating that nothing has yet been formally agreed. as opposed to your over negative view on matters. the club have publicly announced that it is their intention to work with the FB, after all the negative publicity do you really think they are going to risk that again by forcing the FB to sit/stand in L1 (which some people predicted to be the outcome) or simply to ban them from entering SK1? whilst the fine details are not set in stone, i think it's safe to assume that the essence of the points brought forward by the FB will be honoured. the only stumbling block seems to be flag poles, but even that isn't dead in the water - so i think the optimism is valid - fuck it, there's enough negativity surrounding the results, let's just be glad that the club have not derailed the FB and that things are back on track, even if an awful lot of work remains.
unreachable Posted 9 September 2010 Posted 9 September 2010 You are right nothing is agreed until the deal is confirmed but this was an update to tell people who have kindly supported us what is happening and let them know that things have moved forward from the events of the Reading game. Of course we will be much happier once it is signed and sealed but clear progress has been made and that is thanks to some honest and reasonable debate btween the Fosse Boys and LCFC. It is none of my business but I would suggest that you give no updates despite the public clamour and keep your negotiations private and out of the public domain for the sake of clarity until you have reached a formal agreement. You are playing into the club's hands unless all official statements are agreed to be issued by both the Fosse Boys and LCFC.
1964FOX Posted 9 September 2010 Posted 9 September 2010 It is none of my business but I would suggest that you give no updates despite the public clamour and keep your negotiations private and out of the public domain for the sake of clarity until you have reached a formal agreement. You are playing into the club's hands unless all official statements are agreed to be issued by both the Fosse Boys and LCFC. Thank you for your advice, claerly you have knowledge of contract law. I will point out we have made no official statement just given an update, any official statement would be agreed with LCFC to maintain mutual trust and respect between both parties.
unreachable Posted 9 September 2010 Posted 9 September 2010 You've missed my point. "Updates" and "Official Statements" are just words. Fosse Boy's post is effectively an official statement. I think your cause is best served by keeping quiet until you have agreed everything.
Lillehamring Posted 9 September 2010 Posted 9 September 2010 You've missed my point. "Updates" and "Official Statements" are just words. Fosse Boy's post is effectively an official statement. I think your cause is best served by keeping quiet until you have agreed everything. i think the same could be said for you - perhaps if you actually had a point maybe someone somewhere would eventually get it.
unreachable Posted 9 September 2010 Posted 9 September 2010 i think the same could be said for you - perhaps if you actually had a point maybe someone somewhere would eventually get it. Perfect. I fed you the line and you took the bait!
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