Official Statement On the OS re Fosse Boys

[unreachable]

You're obviously a follower of Valerenga's posts!

[AoWW]

You're obviously a follower of Valerenga's posts!

Still I see.

[Lillehamring]

Perfect. I fed you the line and you took the bait!

yeah, my bad - i don't know what i was thinking, you have such a track record of irreverence and irony, how could i possibly have missed the blatancy of your larger than life wit.

[unreachable]

yeah, my bad - i don't know what i was thinking, you have such a track record of irreverence and irony, how could i possibly have missed the blatancy of your larger than life wit.

Perhaps you should stick to the jokey threads - more your forte.

[Ryanside]

Perhaps you should stick to the jokey threads - more your forte.

The “did he die?” troll:


Variations: Did he died?


Seen most often on Youtube, they however have been seen infiltrating other forums.

“FIRST!” trolls:


Obsessed with posting the first comment on a new forum. They have absolutely no imagination and can’t risk the time required to type much beyond “first”. They shake so much with excitement at the prospect of being first they often misspell “first”. Don’t identify this species by their use of the word “first”; look for any short text or pasted material with no relevance to the topic at the opening of a new comment section.

“LAST” trolls:


A FIRST troll without ambition, they accept that they’re too lazy to figure out when new posts arrive and are content with having the last word. Their amusement is short-lived since some comment sections never close.

Numeric trolls:


Will post the numeric placement of their comment (i.e. “Third!”, “Sixty seventh!”, etc.)

Thread Hijackers:

Are most prominent in the first thread of a post. They will try and post as high as possible in a forum, and will completely change the subject of a thread, most often to focus attention on themselves.

The Troll Who Doesn’t Know S/He Is A Troll:


Someone who posts bigoted, idiotic, ignorant, or unkind comments and absolutely cannot understand why their posts engender anger, scorn, or derision. Usually becomes very defensive and projects blame onto other posters.

Pseudo-Intellectual Trolls:


A troll who corrects other posters’ information, grammar, word choice, etc., and its “correction” is actually wrong. It’s even better when the original information being “corrected” was, in fact, correct in the first place.

Care Troll:


A care-troll is a troll that comes onto a thread and posts an absolutely outraged, “HOW CAN YOU PEOPLE LAUGH AT THIS THING, CAN’T YOU SEE THAT SOMEONE COULD GET HURT??” kind of message. They are usually verbally abusive towards other people.

Hate Troll (Latin: Trollus Ignoranus):


Trolls who have absolutely no problem posting prejudicial, bigoted, inflammatory comments and is unapologetic about doing so.

Vanilla Troll:


Willing to try any lame comment that elicited a response in the past, they often mimic other trolls. For example, they might post “first” hours into a post, or “Can it play Crysis?” on every single thread.

PHOTOSHOPPED!!!1! Troll:


Rather self-explanatory, this one. These trolls will cry “Photoshopped” on any photograph (and occasionally on videos) and point out pixels, shadows, or lines as evidence–usually without having any idea of how Photoshop or compression actually works.

The Attention Whore troll:

This troll posts on every thread. Every other post is theirs. When people ignore them or aren’t nice, they resort to self-pity and leave posts that say things like “Since you all hate me, I guess I’ll just leave now!” This particular troll can also be a variant of the “Thread Hijacker”.

The Spam Troll:

These are trolls who post responses on every single thread, often to every single post. Spam trolls love, above all else, to see their own words in print. It makes absolutely no difference if those words say anything meaningful, funny or interesting…such things are not important to the Spam troll. Spam trolls are liable to post such things as, “I have nothing to say here, but I’ll p0st this anyway!” or other such trivialities. Also see Attention Whore Trolls…the two are often closely related.

The Master Baiter Troll:

These are trolls who like to bait regulars into replying to their posts, but they are supremely uninterested in actually participating in the community. They seek instant gratification by posting nonsensical, irrelevant, or inflammatory messages and watching the resultant hoopla that ensues.

Product Spammer Troll:

This troll will try to get you to buy whatever it is they’re selling, via their name link. This troll may attempt to get people to click their link via misdirection, outright lies, guilt-tripping, or ridicule.

Buzzkill Troll:


Also be known as the “Killjoy Troll”, this particular species loves to spoil others’ fun by explaining exactly why a particular thread isn’t correct, or otherwise offering too much information rather than merely enjoying the thread and its black and white content. But more often, the object of the troll’s desire is to interrupt and deride others’ enjoyment.

Copypasta Troll:


These trolls enjoy copying text and pasting it into the comments box and posting it without any meaningfulness to the topic or accuracy. Often, the text is long, boring, and has nothing to do with anything anyone is talking about. Sometimes the text is lewd and vulgar. It could be a YouTube vid or a Wikipedia entry. The Copypasta troll is only concerned with filling up as much space as he/she can and annoying the other posters, claiming that this entry helps the original poster’s topic.

Identity Troll:


These trolls steal the name and/or the avatar of other posters and post inflammatory and offensive comments. It is ridiculously easy to catch these trolls, since they post things that would never, EVER be posted by the person whose identity they have stolen.

Self-Insulting Troll:


A troll who in an attempt to insult another poster ultimately ends up insulting itself. For example, if a troll posts, “Everyone who posts in this thread is stupid!”, having just posted in the comments, has admitted to being stupid under its own definition of the word.

[unreachable]

You've ignored http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(research_station)

Look - I've made some constructive points today addressed to the Fosse Boys about how to achieve their aims. What has your contribution been?

[BrummieFOX]

Congratulations to the Fosse Boys on this agreement. Total credit to the organisers and a seemingly huge step forward for the fans (in general) relationship with the club.

Hopefully the club turn a blind eye to the standing and the Kop goes fro strength to strength.

I still need to pick up my bastard scarf!!

[unreachable]

Congratulations to the Fosse Boys on this agreement. Total credit to the organisers and a seemingly huge step forward for the fans (in general) relationship with the club.

Hopefully the club turn a blind eye to the standing and the Kop goes fro strength to strength.

I still need to pick up my bastard scarf!!

You must have missed 1964FOX's post at #168 when he says "nothing is agreed". I'm flogging a dead horse - badly!

[BrummieFOX]

You must have missed 1964FOX's post at #168 when he says "nothing is agreed". I'm flogging a dead horse - badly!

Didn't actually see his post. We shall see then. Until then, pipe down mate.

[Lillehamring]

You must have missed 1964FOX's post at #168 when he says "nothing is agreed". I'm flogging a dead horse - badly!

the reason it is a dead horse is because it is dead, flog it as you wish, it is still dead, it will not move...

the club have agreed to work with the fosse boys, and the fosse boys have indicated they agree in principal to this agreeing to get along. so surely even you must agree that whilst nothing has been signed sealed and delivered, it is a step in the right direction-

thus, it remains good news...to everyone apart from you.

so, again:

[Jimmy]

serious question isn't SK1 pretty full already so by putting you there are the club trying to artificially limit how many of you there can be?

[Mike the Metal Ed]

serious question isn't SK1 pretty full already so by putting you there are the club trying to artificially limit how many of you there can be?

Nope.

[KFS]

That'll be red by the end of this season

[Nick]

Perfect. I fed you the line and you took the bait!

No you didn't.

You have nothing to say of any value on this matter.

This was pointed out.

Then you bang on as if you are playing the academic 'Devil's Advocate' - which is nonsense - You are not winding anybody up intentionally with any wit or satiricism.

You are simply behaving like a tool and have no worthwhile comment on this matter.

[stripeyfox]

Just read the statement from the Fosse Boys which I would consider to be very positive. The issue of persistant standing has been neatly skirted and hopefully both the club and FB can "agree" on what consitutes "persistant" and stay within mutally acceptable limits.

From the club's point of view, having backed themselves into a corner, this outcome (so far) just about allows them to save some face and will remove some of the criticism they have been receiving from a largely marginised support (evidenced by falling attendances).

Will have a more detailed read through later, but as usual, it seems that Mr Valerega sums everything up quite nicely!

[LCFC-ARAB]

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/article.php?id=4050252

A good read this, thought i would post it in here

It makes a lot of sense

[h1210]

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/article.php?id=4050252

A good read this, thought i would post it in here

It makes a lot of sense

Very interesting read, surprised to hear it from a Liverpool website where this issue is often very much taboo.

[sbfox]

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/article.php?id=4050252

A good read this, thought i would post it in here

It makes a lot of sense

I know this returns to standing v seating again, but this is the major area of debate and one where agreement won't be easy to find.

My take on standing is that you'll have to have a large majority of the Kop wanting to stand before it could ever be allowed on a large scale. This would have to be repeated around the ground as people in the East Stand (for example) might see most of the Kop standing and want to replicate this. The problem arises when people cannot or do not want to stand, yet retain their seats in the top half, back quarter of the stand. What do we do then? Kick those people out of their seats they have paid for them? Move them all to the West Stand? Hardly seems fair.

I don't see a solution to this problem. Yes, we could have a standing zone at the back on SK1, but then what happens when some of the rest of the Kop want to stand too, because they see the FB standing? Do we force the older supporters to stand?

I'd love to hear thoughts on this matter. It just seems a tad hypocritical to (rightly) complain about not being allowed in the ground to stand in your purchased seat, when an old guy who has also bought a seat is forced to watch the back of someone's legs because he can't stand at all. I'm not sure there's 'enough weight of standing' to make this viable anymore.

[stix]

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/article.php?id=4050252

A good read this, thought i would post it in here

It makes a lot of sense

Very good read. especially this.....

.

"Trafford Borough Council contacted Manchester United a few years ago, stating that they were in breech of their ground regulations and safety certificate, as they had fans persistently standing in the upper Stretford End. They issued the club with a threat to revoke their safety certificate and close the stand in question. United then said "see you in court".

In order for a stand to be closed, or any action of that kind to take place, the authorities must prove in court that the action being taken is in proportion to the risks involved. Something they will never be able to do. Fans have been standing persistently in all seater grounds for years, with constant threats of stand closures. Nobody has been injured and there is not one single piece of evidence to suggest standing it more dangerous than sitting. No way to prove that the proposed closure of the stand is in proportion to the risks. There are no evidence of risks to present! Not one threat of closure has been enforced yet, and never will be. Some clubs seem to ignore the guidelines and allow their fans to stand, see the numbers standing in the paragraphs above. Other clubs pick and chose when they want their fans to stand. Every club could ignore the FLA and local council. Their legislation holds no weight or substance. It's almost make believe.

Man City's safety manager - their Ged Poynton if you like - made a statement last summer, that the club have created a singing section in the lower tier next to the away fans, and he will NOT be asking stewards to enforce them to sit. They'll be left alone to stand, as there is no safety risk with standing in lower tiers. He is 100% correct. And every game this season, City fans have stood all game, every game with no hassle from stewards. There has been no closure of the stand or threat of that from the FLA. They know they can't win. If only every club had a stadium manager like the one at Man City."

[leftsideoverhere]

Congrats to all involved in the FB who do appear to have finessed a very difficult situation with respect to the club and come away with both tons of positive publicity and a tentative agreement (which appears to not be limited to the first few games of the season ) which makes the chances of building something long term much, much stronger. Compared to where we all were a month or so ago, this is dramatic progress.

There will still be an amount of friction with the stewards, and I'd caution against any attempt to 'taunt' those stewards who over-reached their authority at the Reading game. Now is the time to actually take a small step backwards in terms of what the FB attempts to 'get away with'. A very visible, very loud, but very well-behaved (which means only standing for portions of the game, I guess) presence at the coming game will give the stewards no excuse, and also help to cement the FB as a presence within the stadium in the eyes of both the club and more importantly other fans. The progress made around flags and TIFOs is promising, as is the agreement to involve other authorities in discussing the standing issue - as long as there's a discussion going on, then there's room for compromise. As others have said, resolving the issue of standing will come down to bigger forces than the current FB: either the whole kop decides it wants to be on its feet again, or footballing authorities give LCFC permission to be more relaxed. What the FB have acheived in the last month is that they've given themselves the best possible chance to be a catalyst for one or other of those things happening, and they've done that without having to give up on their short-term objective of having a good time at City's home games.

Top work, Fosse Boys.

[LCFC-ARAB]

I know this returns to standing v seating again, but this is the major area of debate and one where agreement won't be easy to find.

My take on standing is that you'll have to have a large majority of the Kop wanting to stand before it could ever be allowed on a large scale. This would have to be repeated around the ground as people in the East Stand (for example) might see most of the Kop standing and want to replicate this. The problem arises when people cannot or do not want to stand, yet retain their seats in the top half, back quarter of the stand. What do we do then? Kick those people out of their seats they have paid for them? Move them all to the West Stand? Hardly seems fair.

I don't see a solution to this problem. Yes, we could have a standing zone at the back on SK1, but then what happens when some of the rest of the Kop want to stand too, because they see the FB standing? Do we force the older supporters to stand?

I'd love to hear thoughts on this matter. It just seems a tad hypocritical to (rightly) complain about not being allowed in the ground to stand in your purchased seat, when an old guy who has also bought a seat is forced to watch the back of someone's legs because he can't stand at all. I'm not sure there's 'enough weight of standing' to make this viable anymore.

If people wanted to stand they would go to the standing area, if people wanted to sit they would go to the sitting area

seems simple enough for me

here comes the magic saying again... It works in Germany.

[ozleicester]

The “did he die?” troll:


Variations: Did he died?


Seen most often on Youtube, they however have been seen infiltrating other forums.

“FIRST!” trolls:


Obsessed with posting the first comment on a new forum. They have absolutely no imagination and can’t risk the time required to type much beyond “first”. They shake so much with excitement at the prospect of being first they often misspell “first”. Don’t identify this species by their use of the word “first”; look for any short text or pasted material with no relevance to the topic at the opening of a new comment section.

“LAST” trolls:


A FIRST troll without ambition, they accept that they’re too lazy to figure out when new posts arrive and are content with having the last word. Their amusement is short-lived since some comment sections never close.

Numeric trolls:


Will post the numeric placement of their comment (i.e. “Third!”, “Sixty seventh!”, etc.)

Thread Hijackers:

Are most prominent in the first thread of a post. They will try and post as high as possible in a forum, and will completely change the subject of a thread, most often to focus attention on themselves.

The Troll Who Doesn’t Know S/He Is A Troll:


Someone who posts bigoted, idiotic, ignorant, or unkind comments and absolutely cannot understand why their posts engender anger, scorn, or derision. Usually becomes very defensive and projects blame onto other posters.

Pseudo-Intellectual Trolls:


A troll who corrects other posters’ information, grammar, word choice, etc., and its “correction” is actually wrong. It’s even better when the original information being “corrected” was, in fact, correct in the first place.

Care Troll:


A care-troll is a troll that comes onto a thread and posts an absolutely outraged, “HOW CAN YOU PEOPLE LAUGH AT THIS THING, CAN’T YOU SEE THAT SOMEONE COULD GET HURT??” kind of message. They are usually verbally abusive towards other people.

Hate Troll (Latin: Trollus Ignoranus):


Trolls who have absolutely no problem posting prejudicial, bigoted, inflammatory comments and is unapologetic about doing so.

Vanilla Troll:


Willing to try any lame comment that elicited a response in the past, they often mimic other trolls. For example, they might post “first” hours into a post, or “Can it play Crysis?” on every single thread.

PHOTOSHOPPED!!!1! Troll:


Rather self-explanatory, this one. These trolls will cry “Photoshopped” on any photograph (and occasionally on videos) and point out pixels, shadows, or lines as evidence–usually without having any idea of how Photoshop or compression actually works.

The Attention Whore troll:

This troll posts on every thread. Every other post is theirs. When people ignore them or aren’t nice, they resort to self-pity and leave posts that say things like “Since you all hate me, I guess I’ll just leave now!” This particular troll can also be a variant of the “Thread Hijacker”.

The Spam Troll:

These are trolls who post responses on every single thread, often to every single post. Spam trolls love, above all else, to see their own words in print. It makes absolutely no difference if those words say anything meaningful, funny or interesting…such things are not important to the Spam troll. Spam trolls are liable to post such things as, “I have nothing to say here, but I’ll p0st this anyway!” or other such trivialities. Also see Attention Whore Trolls…the two are often closely related.

The Master Baiter Troll:

These are trolls who like to bait regulars into replying to their posts, but they are supremely uninterested in actually participating in the community. They seek instant gratification by posting nonsensical, irrelevant, or inflammatory messages and watching the resultant hoopla that ensues.

Product Spammer Troll:

This troll will try to get you to buy whatever it is they’re selling, via their name link. This troll may attempt to get people to click their link via misdirection, outright lies, guilt-tripping, or ridicule.

Buzzkill Troll:


Also be known as the “Killjoy Troll”, this particular species loves to spoil others’ fun by explaining exactly why a particular thread isn’t correct, or otherwise offering too much information rather than merely enjoying the thread and its black and white content. But more often, the object of the troll’s desire is to interrupt and deride others’ enjoyment.

Copypasta Troll:


These trolls enjoy copying text and pasting it into the comments box and posting it without any meaningfulness to the topic or accuracy. Often, the text is long, boring, and has nothing to do with anything anyone is talking about. Sometimes the text is lewd and vulgar. It could be a YouTube vid or a Wikipedia entry. The Copypasta troll is only concerned with filling up as much space as he/she can and annoying the other posters, claiming that this entry helps the original poster’s topic.

Identity Troll:


These trolls steal the name and/or the avatar of other posters and post inflammatory and offensive comments. It is ridiculously easy to catch these trolls, since they post things that would never, EVER be posted by the person whose identity they have stolen.

Self-Insulting Troll:


A troll who in an attempt to insult another poster ultimately ends up insulting itself. For example, if a troll posts, “Everyone who posts in this thread is stupid!”, having just posted in the comments, has admitted to being stupid under its own definition of the word.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To be fair...all of the "trolls" listed above, are simply what makes up any forum.

[sbfox]

If people wanted to stand they would go to the standing area, if people wanted to sit they would go to the sitting area

seems simple enough for me

here comes the magic saying again... It works in Germany.

Its not as simple as that though...

Putting aside the various cultural differences between English and German supporters over the years, there is also the issues of 'how big, how many, where abouts?' I simply don't think you could implement the 'German model' successfully in to this country. Take for example people who might want to stand for portions of the game, but then sit for others - whether it be because of ill health, a disability or whatever. Should they be forced to sit in the areas with 'no atmosphere' just because of those reasons?

[Fox in a Box]

Guys this is a decent read, based on the Justice Taylor report.

http://www.le.ac.uk/so/css/resources/factsheets/fs2.html

[LCFC-ARAB]

Its not as simple as that though...

Putting aside the various cultural differences between English and German supporters over the years, there is also the issues of 'how big, how many, where abouts?' I simply don't think you could implement the 'German model' successfully in to this country. Take for example people who might want to stand for portions of the game, but then sit for others - whether it be because of ill health, a disability or whatever. Should they be forced to sit in the areas with 'no atmosphere' just because of those reasons?

you really are thinking too much into this

so you think we should have 90 minute standing areas, then 80 minute standing areas then 70 minutes standing areas for people who cant quite stand for the 90 minutes?

English football fans today are the best behaved supporters in the world, if terraces are used in europe and in Germany then there is no reason why it couldnt work over here

you are going on about peoples right to want to sit without having someone blocking their view, well i would like the right to stand without blocking someones view

the two sets of fans should be campaigning for this together because it will benefit every supporter in the country