Proposals for extra university places, that you buy

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

Perhaps we could all chip in and buy you a university place. Then you might understand what was written and make a sensible comment!!

The post you made is quite clear old soul. Perhaps you do not understand it yourself!

As I said, bigoted!

1

[l444ry]

The post you made is quite clear old soul. Perhaps you do not understand it yourself!

As I said, bigoted!

Someday you'll go far, if you catch the right train.

[l444ry]

If their results are good enough to gain acceptance then, er, why do they need to pay a load of extra cash to be accepted? And if they are not, then surely they cannot be accepted. I can't make head nor tail of how this is supposed to operate.

Anything else I might say would be very offensive to neocons and those in favour of enshrining privilege.

[Webbo]

. I can't make head nor tail of how this is supposed to operate.

But yet you still condemn it.

[l444ry]

But yet you still condemn it.

You're getting worse, Webbo. As if using the pitiful slogan "politics of envy" wasn't bad enough, now you take one line out of context.

Still, that's Tories for ya!

[Webbo]

You're getting worse, Webbo. As if using the pitiful slogan "politics of envy" wasn't bad enough, now you take one line out of context.

Still, that's Tories for ya!

Still as full of shit as ever.

[FoxyPV]

I have no doubt that the changes will put people off going to University. However I strongly believe that they shouldn't, and the fact that they are is more a factor of the negative press coverage and opposition politics than the facts. No one has been able to explain to me why this capped graduate tax approach which is coming in should discourage people going to University. Higher rate tax never discouraged anyone. Would you explain the difference because I really don't see it. I don't see any downside. You have a good well paid career then you pay your way, and you partially fund others (no change there). If you choose a less well paid (but perhaps valuable to society etc) career then you pay much less that the fees you theoretically incurred and probably less than you would under the current system.

Sadly those who see beyond the media noise will be those who would have gone anyway, and this will be a filter to the less well off who are scared off by the meaningless numbers peddled by the press.

People see £6-9k a year for uni (for fees alone) and rightly baulk at it. Most of them, however many times you explain the repayment scheme to them, will fixate on this figure.

In one way the graduate tax is a good idea but in the long run it leaves you worse off as you spread your debt, accumulating more interest and paying more than you would under the current scheme.

There is also no guarantee that you will come out of uni into a well paid job especially outside of south east England.

[l444ry]

Still as full of shit as ever.

Discussion between a father and his 12 year old son:

Son: Dad, I have to do a report for school. Can I ask you a question?

Father: Sure son, whats the question?

Son: What is Politics?

Father: Well, let’s take our home for example. I am the wage earner, so lets call me capitalism. Your mother is the administrator of the money, so we’ll call her the government. We take care of your needs, so lets call you the people. We’ll call the maid the working class and your baby brother we will call the future. Do you understand?

Son: I’m not really sure, Dad. I’ll have to think about it.

That night, awakened by his baby brother’s crying, the boy went to see what was wrong. Discovering the baby had seriously dirtied his nappy, the boy went to his parents’ room where, he found his mother sound asleep. He then went to the maid’s room where, peeking through the key hole, he saw his father in bed with the maid. The boy’s knocking went totally unheard by his father and the maid, so the boy returned to his room and went back to bed.

The next morning:

Son: Dad, now I think I understand politics.

Father: That’s great son. Explain it to me in your own words.

Son: Well Dad, while capitalism is screwing the working class, the government is sound asleep. The people are being completely ignored and the furure is full of shit.

[Webbo]

Discussion between a father and his 12 year old son:

Son: Dad, I have to do a report for school. Can I ask you a question?

Father: Sure son, whats the question?

Son: What is Politics?

Father: Well, let’s take our home for example. I am the wage earner, so lets call me capitalism. Your mother is the administrator of the money, so we’ll call her the government. We take care of your needs, so lets call you the people. We’ll call the maid the working class and your baby brother we will call the future. Do you understand?

Son: I’m not really sure, Dad. I’ll have to think about it.

That night, awakened by his baby brother’s crying, the boy went to see what was wrong. Discovering the baby had seriously dirtied his nappy, the boy went to his parents’ room where, he found his mother sound asleep. He then went to the maid’s room where, peeking through the key hole, he saw his father in bed with the maid. The boy’s knocking went totally unheard by his father and the maid, so the boy returned to his room and went back to bed.

The next morning:

Son: Dad, now I think I understand politics.

Father: That’s great son. Explain it to me in your own words.

Son: Well Dad, while capitalism is screwing the working class, the government is sound asleep. The people are being completely ignored and the furure is full of shit.

I see.

[Finnegan]

I doubt that, but that's not what it means. It's the assumption that the well off don't deserve their good fortune, that the well off are somehow to blame for your poor fortune.

Well, actually, can you justify that the "well off" in this instance DO deserve their fortune? I'm not saying young children born to affluent families should be loathed or begrudged, at all, I'm not saying they should have to work harder than poorer children to justify their entirely lucky birth. But are they deserving of a wealth they've contributed nothing towards?

And I don't consider myself to have poor fortune, I don't curse my luck because I don't have a house with a pool or a wardrobe full of designer labels I don't even understand. I've got a fucking good TV, a top of the line laptop and I can afford all the media I desire and a healthy belly full of booze - that's basically me content at twenty-something.

But just because I don't begrudge someone their wealth it doesn't mean that I think those with more money should be using that as the single criteria with which to enter an establishment of higher education. This isn't 1500, our society shouldn't be run on a class based system. In a progressive, forward thinking world we should want only the brightest, most capable people filling our learning establishments and that's the bottom line.

As I've stated on this thread more than once, and nobody has proved me wrong, the less well off are not losing out on anything due to these proposals.

Well of course they are, they're losing the opportunity to take up those places.

If the universities have the capacity in teaching staff to take on those extra students who are affluent, then they have the capacity to take on extra students full stop. As Benji says (a Tory voter, if I'm not mistaken, and I agree with most of what he said) most universities cap their places depending on the staff numbers they have and the facilities they have, that's not going to be drastically changed by this.

This is nothing other than the government deciding to cut further into the education budget and wanting to do so without upsetting their own primary voting demographic (the well-to-do, rural, Southern, affluent English.)

[Jon the Hat]

People see £6-9k a year for uni (for fees alone) and rightly baulk at it. Most of them, however many times you explain the repayment scheme to them, will fixate on this figure.

In one way the graduate tax is a good idea but in the long run it leaves you worse off as you spread your debt, accumulating more interest and paying more than you would under the current scheme.

There is also no guarantee that you will come out of uni into a well paid job especially outside of south east England.

By any definition, this is not really debt. Debt has to be paid back, it doesn't go on hold if you are a low earner, its payments don't gradually increase as a percentage of your income, it doesn't stop after 30 years regardless of whether it has been paid back or not. The only people who will end up paying more are those who earn a lot of money.

But I do agree, it is off putting, and like i said, i put the blame for that on the media, who rather than explain it properly have blown the whole thing out of proportion.

[Jon the Hat]

Well, actually, can you justify that the "well off" in this instance DO deserve their fortune? I'm not saying young children born to affluent families should be loathed or begrudged, at all, I'm not saying they should have to work harder than poorer children to justify their entirely lucky birth. But are they deserving of a wealth they've contributed nothing towards?

And I don't consider myself to have poor fortune, I don't curse my luck because I don't have a house with a pool or a wardrobe full of designer labels I don't even understand. I've got a fucking good TV, a top of the line laptop and I can afford all the media I desire and a healthy belly full of booze - that's basically me content at twenty-something.

But just because I don't begrudge someone their wealth it doesn't mean that I think those with more money should be using that as the single criteria with which to enter an establishment of higher education. This isn't 1500, our society shouldn't be run on a class based system. In a progressive, forward thinking world we should want only the brightest, most capable people filling our learning establishments and that's the bottom line.

Well of course they are, they're losing the opportunity to take up those places.

If the universities have the capacity in teaching staff to take on those extra students who are affluent, then they have the capacity to take on extra students full stop. As Benji says (a Tory voter, if I'm not mistaken, and I agree with most of what he said) most universities cap their places depending on the staff numbers they have and the facilities they have, that's not going to be drastically changed by this.

This is nothing other than the government deciding to cut further into the education budget and wanting to do so without upsetting their own primary voting demographic (the well-to-do, rural, Southern, affluent English.)

If a course was capped by capacity rather than govt funding then there would not be any paying places would there, as they would all be govt funded.

[l444ry]

Two-Brains latest idea-:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/exclusive-the-great-university-clearance-sale-2282713.html

[Jon the Hat]

Two-Brains latest idea-:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/exclusive-the-great-university-clearance-sale-2282713.html

Hahahahaha. That is funny. Universities developing some kind of complex pricing strategy... That will bite them on the arse for sure.

[dave the caveman]

I wonder if they'll put it on teletext. Everyone gathered around the TV, waiting while it flicks through a page for each university, and then suddenly scrambling on the phone to get the call in when they see that Mechanical Engineering at Bath is down to £975 per year.

[FoxyPV]

Discussion between a father and his 12 year old son:

Son: Dad, I have to do a report for school. Can I ask you a question?

Father: Sure son, whats the question?

Son: What is Politics?

Father: Well, let’s take our home for example. I am the wage earner, so lets call me capitalism. Your mother is the administrator of the money, so we’ll call her the government. We take care of your needs, so lets call you the people. We’ll call the maid the working class and your baby brother we will call the future. Do you understand?

Son: I’m not really sure, Dad. I’ll have to think about it.

That night, awakened by his baby brother’s crying, the boy went to see what was wrong. Discovering the baby had seriously dirtied his nappy, the boy went to his parents’ room where, he found his mother sound asleep. He then went to the maid’s room where, peeking through the key hole, he saw his father in bed with the maid. The boy’s knocking went totally unheard by his father and the maid, so the boy returned to his room and went back to bed.

The next morning:

Son: Dad, now I think I understand politics.

Father: That’s great son. Explain it to me in your own words.

Son: Well Dad, while capitalism is screwing the working class, the government is sound asleep. The people are being completely ignored and the furure is full of shit.

[The Doctor]

Still as full of shit as ever.

Of course, you didn't expect the tories to change did you?

The universities will be getting roughly the same amount money in through the new proposal as they do now so will only be able to afford to employ the same amount of lecturerers as (or possibly a couple more than) they do now. Hence the amount of students they can take in will not change much (maybe 10-20 more) to what they do now.

So under this proposal those from a poorer background will have less chance of getting a place because they'll be competing for fewer places.

Nevermind though, as long as the elite can get an education what does it matter if others can't?

[KFS]

Marx will be turning in his grave.

[FoxyPV]

Marx will be turning in his grave.

Marx wasn't above contradicting his principles, especially if it was for his/ his families benefit.