shade Posted 31 July 2011 Posted 31 July 2011 haven't we worked out yet they we still don't have the players to play 433, it always ends up as 4 5 1 with an isolated striker up front. I thought it was blindingly obvious last season and still think it is. admittedly I'm slightly biased because i still live in MON glory era, but a 3 5 2 is the answer, and as a tactical master, I should know. it would also allow us to play three of our many central midfielders. basically I think you HAVE to have two strikers, I always have and always will, end of!
Jimmy Posted 31 July 2011 Posted 31 July 2011 your shocked that when playing REAL MADRID we got pinned back at times? seriously who in the championship is likely to dominate possession like they did?
Cropwellfox Posted 31 July 2011 Posted 31 July 2011 like it or not, that's what Sven and Faz are going to play more often than not this year.... I might be wrong but it seemed to me that the pitch was a bit narrower - anybody else think the same ?
shade Posted 31 July 2011 Author Posted 31 July 2011 your shocked that when playing REAL MADRID we got pinned back at times? seriously who in the championship is likely to dominate possession like they did? haha not really no, I'm schocked tho that it isn't obvious that so many times last year our striker looked isolated, and still will, especially if they aren't a high quality striker.
Jimmy Posted 31 July 2011 Posted 31 July 2011 haha not really no, I'm schocked tho that it isn't obvious that so many times last year our striker looked isolated, and still will, especially if they aren't a high quality striker. yes but our midfield was wafer thin last season, this time we have a acclimatised Yuki, Gelson Fernandes and Neil Danns none of whom will shirk the physical battle allowing the wingers to stay further forward, not to mention Wellens, if he can cut out the fancy shit and just pass the bloody ball, and Kingy's forward bursts from midfield often playing almost as a 2nd striker, play with pace and dominate the majority of possession and we won't have a problem, don't and no matter what system we play we'll struggle
Woollett's Wellies Posted 31 July 2011 Posted 31 July 2011 like it or not, that's what Sven and Faz are going to play more often than not this year.... I might be wrong but it seemed to me that the pitch was a bit narrower - anybody else think the same ? You're right, the pitch has definately been marked out narrower than last season.
shade Posted 31 July 2011 Author Posted 31 July 2011 You're right, the pitch has definately been marked out narrower than last season. probs because 433 doesn't give you any width?
Dabizas Posted 31 July 2011 Posted 31 July 2011 Sven took us from bottom to 10th don't see the big issue with it, it does go to a 451 when under pressure but a 442 can go 451 when under pressure! I like it
cc_star Posted 31 July 2011 Posted 31 July 2011 IMO our midfielders (Danns Abe, Wellens, Fernandes, Oakley, King & Johsnon) are in a different class to our forwards (Howard, Nugent, Waggy, Vassell, Gally, Kermo) Therefore having an equal number of midfield & forwards on the pitch at the same time seems an imbalance of quality Vassell does some tricky runs, which in themselves are exciting & I can see why some fans get drawn in to them, but none of them, ever, amount to anything and Gally is wasted as an outside forward, he's better on the edge of the box, dinking through balls to a goal scorer or taking longer range shots himself. Both are appalling defensively. It's a situation that will only improve with more signings of a higher quality than are already here That's the negative out the way, now on to the positive. 4-4-3- is an exciting free flowing formation which is great at attacking football, when we have possession we have 3 forwards near the opposing box & with the energetic midfielders at least a couple of them are there too. As the width is provided by the fullbacks or by the outside forwards working the channels supported by the fullbacks, when we attack, we attack in numbers, and stuff generally happens. IMO we have the midfielders &defenders to do whatever formations we want, but I don't yet think we have a forward line capable of top 2 in a 4-3-3... that would change in a heartbeat with a new classy addition up front
Woollett's Wellies Posted 31 July 2011 Posted 31 July 2011 probs because 433 doesn't give you any width? I'm not neccessarily disagreeing with you. Just answering the other poster who asked if anyone had noticed it. Although I prefer to see a pair of strikers working closer together to put pressure on the centre backs I don't think you can say that Nugent playing at the top of a 4-5-1 isn't going to work. It was against Real Madrid after all. Although Yakubu got a good goals per game return, Nugent has far more pace and mobility to make the space for the midfielders to run into scoring positions.
cc_star Posted 31 July 2011 Posted 31 July 2011 probs because 433 doesn't give you any width? Naughton & PVA and now Peltier & Konchesky would beg to differ. Plus if your two outside forwards have enough presence they will run the channels to create width. IMO Vassell & Gally aren't well suited to that and both would be better on the edge of the box, Vassell dribbling into it or Gally taking a long shot/playing a thru-ball
shade Posted 31 July 2011 Author Posted 31 July 2011 surely with two fast, wide defensive players like peltier, 3 5 2 gives you more options up front with two players in and around the box at all times, and allows you to play three of our central midfielders instead of two tho?
Guest Col city fan Posted 31 July 2011 Posted 31 July 2011 haha not really no, I'm schocked tho that it isn't obvious that so many times last year our striker looked isolated, and still will, especially if they aren't a high quality striker. I do agree.... Good strikers like nugent and vassell will be made to look shitty if they are isolated up top time and time again.. Most good forwards need another striker to work off.. To understand where the ball is gonna come from, the runs that will be made etc... The list is endless really: Shearer and sutton Bergkamp and Henry Morientes and raul Fryatt and howard Rush and dalglish ................... Ad nauseum
Jimmy Posted 31 July 2011 Posted 31 July 2011 3-5-2 has vanished off the scene for a reason, Peltier and Koncheskey wouldn't be great as wing-backs it would be 5-3-2 and that would send the wrong message and make the players naturally more defensive
Bugg Posted 31 July 2011 Posted 31 July 2011 The only place that I've seen 3-5-2 being played in is Italy, and most of the case that ends up turning into 5-3-2 and overly defensive. 4-4-2 is too limited and rigid for our style of football 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1 are the formations that teams that play the passing football which Sven wants us to play, so like it or not 4-3-3 is most likely going to be our formation this season.
shade Posted 31 July 2011 Author Posted 31 July 2011 The only place that I've seen 3-5-2 being played in is Italy, and most of the case that ends up turning into 5-3-2 and overly defensive. 4-4-2 is too limited and rigid for our style of football 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1 are the formations that teams that play the passing football which Sven wants us to play, so like it or not 4-3-3 is most likely going to be our formation this season. ok so if your saying that 352 turns into 532, thats still preferable to a 433 turning into an unbalanced 451 with a guy like gally as a wide midfielder, having neither pace nor tenacity. ultimately even IF a 352 becomes defensive, you still have TWO strikers supporting each other.
One Arm Babba Posted 31 July 2011 Posted 31 July 2011 I think the problem is the quality we have in the front 3 at the moment. If when expected, we bring in a couple of forwards, I would put Nugent on the right in place of vassell. Gally needs to step up and become more consistent. On his day he is fantastic, to keep his place he needs to perform week in week out. Once we have the right players 4-3-3 will be good.
Guest ttfn Posted 31 July 2011 Posted 31 July 2011 Vassell has spent the majority of his career at centre-forward, and Gallagher as a forward of sorts. When those 2 support a main striker, it is clearly designed to be a 4-3-3. Yesterday we spent large periods of the game getting overrun by an excellent Madrid side, so they had to drop off. Hardly surprising really is it?
shade Posted 31 July 2011 Author Posted 31 July 2011 Vassell has spent the majority of his career at centre-forward, and Gallagher as a forward of sorts. When those 2 support a main striker, it is clearly designed to be a 4-3-3. Yesterday we spent large periods of the game getting overrun by an excellent Madrid side, so they had to drop off. Hardly surprising really is it? ok, so if you claim it only happened against a good Madrid side, and doesn't always happen, answer this. vassell, as a proper striker, as part of a front two, should score goals right? how many did he knock in last season, when he was supposed to be one of our THREE strikers? face it, 433 only works with three proper attackers, and should be ultra offensive. were essentially playing a 451 with two strikers in midfield.
cc_star Posted 31 July 2011 Posted 31 July 2011 Vassell has spent the majority of his career at centre-forward, and Gallagher as a forward of sorts. When those 2 support a main striker, it is clearly designed to be a 4-3-3. Yesterday we spent large periods of the game getting overrun by an excellent Madrid side, so they had to drop off. Hardly surprising really is it? They often do though, regardless of opposition. Vassell constantly runs into dead ends, sure he beats a couple of players and the fans go woooooo, but nothing ever, ever happens from any of his dribbles. Gally should be a central 2nd striker, he should either be playing through balls & dinks to a goal scorer or he should be picking up the pieces from a bigger man & having a shot himself. He cannot play effectively in the channel, we're missing out on his through balls or his edge of the box shooting. When stuff does happen I think its through our shear attacking quality & numbers, rather than meaningful work done by the front 3. IMO Vassell or Gally would be better alongside someone else as part of a front 2, to get the best out of their games, however we're bigger than just those 2 players and that would sacrifice the rest of the team & all the benefits that we have since Sven got his game going after the Jan transfer window. 4-3-3 is here to stay, and whilst we have 2 quality players for every position in the 4-3 we don't yet in the final 3, we do however have a collection of forwards who would do well in a 2
B52 Posted 31 July 2011 Posted 31 July 2011 ... and Gallagher as a forward of sorts. Why is he a striker...? Everytime I see him I think of a playmaker and he's got the skills to be it so why isn't he?
Brown Fox Posted 31 July 2011 Posted 31 July 2011 4-3-3 got us the most goals at home in the league last season and the only reason it would ever fail was because our midfield was very weak. Our full backs also create lots of width and attacking flair so I think we'll be fine. Just need that striker!
ajthefox Posted 31 July 2011 Posted 31 July 2011 I do agree.... Good strikers like nugent and vassell will be made to look shitty if they are isolated up top time and time again.. Most good forwards need another striker to work off.. To understand where the ball is gonna come from, the runs that will be made etc... The list is endless really: Shearer and sutton Bergkamp and Henry Morientes and raul Fryatt and howard Rush and dalglish ................... Ad nauseum I love how casually you've included Fryatt and Howard in with the other partnerships
Burmesefox Posted 31 July 2011 Posted 31 July 2011 4-3-3 - you mean 4-5-1 as that is actually what we play regardless of what Sven or that knob Stringer says
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