the diamond standard

[themotivator]

I missed the first half of the match because i was at work so didn't hear how we lined up. Gelson mentioned that they played a diamond 442. can anyone who was at the game today post what positions everyone played and how well they thought the formation worked.

[Nod.E]

Worked very well IMO.

kasper

pantsil bamba mills konchesky

..................wellens

........fernandes.....danns

....................king

...............Nuge..Vas

With fernandes and danns surging from the centre down the wings. Would like to see it again.

[themotivator]

cheers. looks like a nice set up to be honest. ive not been a massive advocate of 442 to be honest, i think we can make 433 work with the right players playing well, but it looks like a nice shape and interesting to see wellens as the DM. sounds like fernandes in particular was good going forward.

[lcfcsnow]

I've been to every game so far this season, and it works much better away than it does at home. We're lacking something at home, an extra forward or two would help though.

[Salieri]

The system worked well and i'm sure Sven would have realised this is the way we need to play. Hopefully same team for the Southampton match.

[Babylon]

I've been to every game so far this season, and it works much better away than it does at home. We're lacking something at home, an extra forward or two would help though.

If you'd been to every game you would have noticed it was a completely different formation today to anything we have played at home.

[sg6]

It worked fantastically in the first half and the second until florist changed formation and we took Nugent off for Gallagher. We looked an attacking threat for the first time this season and broke their attacks up with ease. Play like that next week with a non-biased ref (what are the chances of that?) and we should win

[davieG]

Shame he messed it up by substituting Gallagher for Nugent. totally incomprehensible even if Nugent was injured Gallagher was not the right replacement. As it freed up their players and allowed them to attack in numbers thus putting pressure on the defence that wasn't there before.

[Thracian]

The system worked well for first half with our team looking the best balanced its been for ages.

But our second goal was the start of a gradual change of emphasis until, in the end, once again, we we voluntarily conceding space and finally just gave the ball away in our desperation.

Again, the managerial leadership was awful.

Forest were awful in the first half, their defence so vulnerable they were always vulnerable to any kind of sustained pressure.

Indeed it was their diabolical defensive mistakes gave us our two goal advantage.

After that we stopped doing the things which had helped us score those goals and, seocnd half it got worse because we really stopped trying to score goals altogether. We just tried to contain the game.

Forest brought on the big, busling Miller who was soon making pushing and pulling our centre-backs out of their comfort zone and our tactical reaction to this change was abyssmal.

Instead of continuing to press forwards and to so quickly smother the Forest attacks at source that they had not a single shot on target first half, we started to concede the space and defend from the halfway line backwards.

Still Miller (and therefore those supplying him) would have got nowhere if we'd pushed our defensive back line higher up the pitch - way outside the penalty area - and thus neutralised his effect and the potential for trouble whenever a final ball was played into their penalty box.

Howard is another you have to do this with to best negate his threat and it would have been virtually risk free because the bustler wasn't fast enough to get behind our defence for long and there were no fast Forest forwards to make runs from deep.

Gradually the ball was going into our box far more than was previously the case and, with the place getting increasingly crowded, some of us sensed that trouble was coming.

Taking Nugent off didn't help our need to keep closing down quickly but using Gallagher as an alternative was idiotic. Gallagher is the worst pressurising player we've got - and despite the vital importance of his job tonight he looked only half-hearted in doing it.

Even the much more pacy Dyer would have been more effective but Jeffery Schlupp was the specialist striker on the bench and, yet again, we preferred to use someone as a makeweight in the job, with typically predictable consequences.

It really was two points voluntarily thrown away through bad tactical reaction and individual indiscipline.

Put simply, Sven and his helpers failed to show the awareness necessary to see out the job. By refusing to sustain our pressure against a poor side and by reacting badly to the need for a tactical adjustment, it enabled Forest to apply the pressure which led to the Schmiechel's costly indiscipline. As a result, two more points disappeared that we should have won, we are without our top goalkeeper for a game and we are now nine points off the pace counting goal difference.

Our team has lost the chance to be celebrated for gaining our first maximum points at Forest for decades and worse, both our league position and our confidence have taken another big knock. Professional? We seem professionally naive and, I say again, in desperate need of an attacking coach because we still didn't create many openings in the match..

[Raw Dykes]

Shame he messed it up by substituting Gallagher for Nugent. totally incomprehensible even if Nugent was injured Gallagher was not the right replacement. As it freed up their players and allowed them to attack in numbers thus putting pressure on the defence that wasn't there before.

I'm not so sure. Sounds like Nugent did need replacing due to injury. I know Gallagher isn't on form, and is lightweight, but I'm sure Sven was thinking Gally could play up front with Vassell, and slot back into midfield for a defensive 4-5-1 towards the end of the match, and then back up front if needed. He's also the best set-piece taker we've got.

To be honest, I think I would have made the same substitution given the circumstances. He did have a pretty good shot straight after F*rest scored, too.

This diamond formation is definitely the way to go. It suits our squad perfectly - we have plenty of central midfielders to fill the 4 man midfield, meaning fewer of our better players have to sit on the sidelines, no wingers are needed and we don't have any decent ones, and a proper strike partnership up front. Nugent and Vassell worked together very well today, and the more they play together, the better they will get to know each other's game. No-one is playing out of position - everyone looked comfortable on the ball in the first half, and we played some lovely confident, fast passing. I really hope Sven sticks with exactly this formation and team selection for the next league match.

Not sure what I'd do for the cup match. Would you give the fringe players a go and rest today's players, or would you want to keep the same XI to carry momentum into the Soton match? I wouldn't want to risk the better players tiring too much, but I would want them to get more used to this formation. I'm just glad it's not my decision to make.

[Heart-Shaped Fox]

Worked well until Gallagher came on, he just slowed everything down and gave the ball away. When we were under pressure we didnt look like we could keep the ball either.

[Nod.E]

The system worked well for first half with our team looking the best balanced its been for ages.

But our second goal was the start of a gradual change of emphasis until, in the end, once again, we wee voluntarily conceding space and finally just giving the ball away in our desperation.

Again, the managerial leadership was awful.

Forest were awful in the first half, their defence so vulnerable they were always vulnerable to any kind of sustained pressure.

Indeed it was their diabolical defensive mistakes gave us our two goal advantage.

After that were stopped doing the things which had helped us score those goals and, seocnd half it got worse because we really stopped trying to score goals altogether. We just tried to contain the game.

Forest brought on a big, busling striker who was soon making pushing and pulling our centre-backs out of their comfort zone and our tactical reactin to this change was abyssmal.

Instead of continuing to press forwards and to so quickly smother the Forest attacks at source that they had not a single shot on target first half, we started to concede the space and defend from the halfway line backwards.

Still the bustling centre-forward (and therefore those supplying him) would have got nowhere if we'd pushed our defensive back line higher up the pitch - way outside the penalty area - and thus neutralised his effect and the potential for trouble whenever a final ball was played into their penalty box.

Howard is another you have to do this with to best negate his threat and it would have been virtually risk free because the bustler wasn't fast enough to get behind our defence for long and there were no fast Forest forwards to make runs from deep.

Gradually the ball was going into our box far more than was previously the case and, with the place getting increasingly crowded, some of us sensed that trouble was coming.

Taking Nugent off didn't help our need to keep closing down quickly but using Gallagher as an alternative was idiotic. Gallagher is the worst pressurising player we've got - and despite the vital importance of his job tonight he looked only half-hearted in doing it.

Even the much more pacy Dyer would have been more effective but Jeffery Schlupp was the specialist striker on the bench and, yet again, we preferred to use someone as a makeweight in the job, with typically predictable consequences.

It really was two points voluntarily thrown away through bad tactical reaction and individual indiscipline.

Put simply, Sven and his helpers failed to show the awareness necessary to see out the job. By refusing to sustain our pressure against a poor side and by reacting badly to the need for a tactical adjustment, enabled Forest to apply the pressure which led to the Schmiechel's costly indiscipline. As a result, two more points disappeared that we should have won, we are without our top goalkeeper for three games and we are now nine points off the pace counting goal difference.

Our team has lost the chance to be celebrated for gaining our first maximum points at Forest for decades and worse, both our league position and our confidence have taken another big knock. Professional? We seem professionally naive and, I say again, in desperate need of an attacking coach because we still didn't create many openings in the match..

Got half way down and stopped reading. I could write a long response to this but all I'll say is that you're quite simply wrong.

[Salieri]

I thought Schmeichel was only going to miss one game? I agree about Schlupp, he should have definitely been brought on for Nugent. There were plenty of positives Thracian despite your negative, critical post.

Yes we were far better first half, but until their (fortunate) penalty and resulting sending off, we were comfortable and there was only going to be one winner.

[Heart-Shaped Fox]

The system worked well for first half with our team looking the best balanced its been for ages.

But our second goal was the start of a gradual change of emphasis until, in the end, once again, we wee voluntarily conceding space and finally just giving the ball away in our desperation.

Again, the managerial leadership was awful.

Forest were awful in the first half, their defence so vulnerable they were always vulnerable to any kind of sustained pressure.

Indeed it was their diabolical defensive mistakes gave us our two goal advantage.

After that were stopped doing the things which had helped us score those goals and, seocnd half it got worse because we really stopped trying to score goals altogether. We just tried to contain the game.

Forest brought on a big, busling striker who was soon making pushing and pulling our centre-backs out of their comfort zone and our tactical reactin to this change was abyssmal.

Instead of continuing to press forwards and to so quickly smother the Forest attacks at source that they had not a single shot on target first half, we started to concede the space and defend from the halfway line backwards.

Still the bustling centre-forward (and therefore those supplying him) would have got nowhere if we'd pushed our defensive back line higher up the pitch - way outside the penalty area - and thus neutralised his effect and the potential for trouble whenever a final ball was played into their penalty box.

Howard is another you have to do this with to best negate his threat and it would have been virtually risk free because the bustler wasn't fast enough to get behind our defence for long and there were no fast Forest forwards to make runs from deep.

Gradually the ball was going into our box far more than was previously the case and, with the place getting increasingly crowded, some of us sensed that trouble was coming.

Taking Nugent off didn't help our need to keep closing down quickly but using Gallagher as an alternative was idiotic. Gallagher is the worst pressurising player we've got - and despite the vital importance of his job tonight he looked only half-hearted in doing it.

Even the much more pacy Dyer would have been more effective but Jeffery Schlupp was the specialist striker on the bench and, yet again, we preferred to use someone as a makeweight in the job, with typically predictable consequences.

It really was two points voluntarily thrown away through bad tactical reaction and individual indiscipline.

Put simply, Sven and his helpers failed to show the awareness necessary to see out the job. By refusing to sustain our pressure against a poor side and by reacting badly to the need for a tactical adjustment, enabled Forest to apply the pressure which led to the Schmiechel's costly indiscipline. As a result, two more points disappeared that we should have won, we are without our top goalkeeper for three games and we are now nine points off the pace counting goal difference.

Our team has lost the chance to be celebrated for gaining our first maximum points at Forest for decades and worse, both our league position and our confidence have taken another big knock. Professional? We seem professionally naive and, I say again, in desperate need of an attacking coach because we still didn't create many openings in the match..

Nugent was knackered and had to go off, but I mainly agree with all of this. Especially the bits in bold.

[Raw Dykes]

Schmeichel only misses one match, not three, as it was two yellow cards and not a straight red.

[Salieri]

Nugent was knackered and had to go off, but I mainly agree with all of this. Especially the bits in bold.

We realise you're not a Gallagher fan, you've made this very clear time and time again.

[Heart-Shaped Fox]

We realise you're not a Gallagher fan, you've made this very clear time and time again.

I just dont see what he offers and certainyl dont see why he is very over rated by just about everyone on here.

[davieG]

I have no problem with Gallagher but he doesn't provide the same threat as Nugent who caused their defence all sorts of panic, panic which gave us our two goal lead. With Gallagher on the threat that Nugent supplied disappeared and allowed their defence to push up and squeeze all the play into our half which meant we ended up hoofing it out to Vassell, a pointless tactic, giving them the ball back straight away and allowing them to stay camped in our half forcing our defence, under pressure to making mistakes.

[Thracian]

Nugent was knackered and had to go off, but I mainly agree with all of this. Especially the bits in bold.

I accept that Nugent had to go off if he was injured but choosing Gallagher to replace him when we needed someone with energy and determination to close people down quickly was just so dim considering the alternatives.

He's looking slower and slower these days and you could see it in his face that efforts to pressurise people were little more than token gestures whn we needed someone to do the job with attitude.

[Thracian]

Schmeichel only misses one match, not three, as it was two yellow cards and not a straight red.

Thanks for that. And what a relief.

[Heart-Shaped Fox]

I accept that Nugent had to go off if he was injured but choosing Gallagher to replace him when we needed someone with energy and determination to close people down quickly was just so dim considering the alternatives.

He's looking slower and slower these days and you could see it in his face that efforts to pressurise people were little more than token gestures whn we needed someone to do the job with attitude.

Apparantly Nugent picked up a knock in training and wouldnt have lasted a full game. And like I have put on another thread nto having a more suitable player than Gallagher to come off the bench for him is poor management, again showing Svwen up tactically.

[LCFC_FAN_1995]

I thought Schmeichel was only going to miss one game? I agree about Schlupp, he should have definitely been brought on for Nugent. There were plenty of positives Thracian despite your negative, critical post.

Yes we were far better first half, but until their (fortunate) penalty and resulting sending off, we were comfortable and there was only going to be one winner.

yes, he misses Bury so not all that bad. we played brilliant but then by bringing on gally, it slowed our pace down. Better start using this formation all the time and not just away!

[Thracian]

I thought Schmeichel was only going to miss one game? I agree about Schlupp, he should have definitely been brought on for Nugent. There were plenty of positives Thracian despite your negative, critical post.

Yes we were far better first half, but until their (fortunate) penalty and resulting sending off, we were comfortable and there was only going to be one winner.

No-one was more comfortable than me at half-time and I remarked as such to the Foxestalk member sitting next to me during the break that "We surely can't lose this from here".

Yet, some time before the first goal came, the "comfortable feeling was fast disappearing not just from me but from others round about because we were simply inviting too much pressure on ourselves.

Positives don't come into it. I could write a chapter about the positives from today, including in particular the greater all-round support our system produced for the first 35 minutes or so.

But professional football is all about winning and more expecially when you get the sort of chance offered by a two-goal lead. But we didn't win. And most important is why we surrendered that lead - and two important points - when there was no need, rather than any hollow praise that might be given for a job only part done.

[Salieri]

No-one was more comfortable that me at half-time and I remarked as such to the Foxestalk member sitting next to me during the break that "We surely can't lose this from here".

Yet, some time before the first goal came, the "comfortable feeling was fast disappearing not just from me but from others round about because we were simply inviting too much pressure on ourselves.

Positives don't come into it. I could write a chapter about the positives from today, including in particular the greater all-round support our system produced for the first 35 minutes or so.

But professional football is all about winning and more expecially when you get the sort of chance offered by a two-goal lead. But we didn't win. And most important is why we surrendered that lead - and two important points - when there was no need, rather than any hollow praise that might be given for a job only part done.

But when a team are a couple of goals down it's inevitable they are going to press a lot more. It's not as simplistic as 'we sit back and invite them to attack'. We could go and keep attacking relentlessly, but this often backfires and results in allowing the opposition back into the game. We were soaking up everything they could throw at us, and providing a threat on the counter.

The reason we lost our advantage was simply down to two poor refereeing decisions. You can see that as making excuses if you like, but it's fact.

We played well today and were very unfortunate. Sven and his staff, in the main, got it right.

[okie fox]

Schlupp, since he can play left back and is quick and unafraid, would have put more pressure on the Forest defenders than Gallagher did. I guess Sven was scared to throw him into the deep end in a local derby.