Mystery of WTC 7 - Conspiracy

[marko]

so if experts in their own field disagree , then you can only come to the conclusion that no-one really knows

i object the use of the word "expert". Replace it with fanatical, deluded, misinformed bonehead and i'll give you a +1

[purpleronnie]

I just fail to understand how every little detail is needed to be explained for those consipracy theorists to change their views. Practically any disaster you will find differences in 'expert' opinions, some believe aliens built the pyramids or that elvis isnt really dead. Quantom of evidence shows the vast majority of evidence points to a terrorist attack with no hidden agendas or consiparcy by any group.

I know some will reply I wont be reading as the 'arguement' will just go on....

[OzFox]

i object the use of the word "expert". Replace it with fanatical, deluded, misinformed bonehead and i'll give you a +1

Zingari, I'd like to know how many architects, engineers, scholars, and pilots have come out and said there was a conspiracy. Are they outweighed by a considerably larger number of architects, engineers, scholars, and pilots who want nothing to do with conspiracy theories? If that's the case, does this tell you anything? Has it occurred to you that some of the conspiracists are flunks and failures seeking publicity to boost their egos and a flagging career?

I suspect many of them have zero credibility (especially now )

[shen]

Perhaps he's not ignorant. He could have easily read both sides of the argument and come down on the official side. It's not beyond the realms of possibility.

But then he'd acknowledge there are grounds for suspicion. To draw parallels between pyramid-building aliens and the 9/11 attacks I find frankly rather insulting. He's ignorant (or gullible, or naïve, or whatever you want to call it) if he believes that our respective governments do not hide things from the public to further their agenda whatever it may be. If he chooses to disregard the fallacies, implausibilities and the deliberate withholding or destruction of evidence, that's his prerogative, but that IMO makes him an ignorant.

[Zingari]

Zingari, I'd like to know how many architects, engineers, scholars, and pilots have come out and said there was a conspiracy. Are they outweighed by a considerably larger number of architects, engineers, scholars, and pilots who want nothing to do with conspiracy theories? If that's the case, does this tell you anything? Has it occurred to you that some of the conspiracists are flunks and failures seeking publicity to boost their egos and a flagging career?

I suspect many of them have zero credibility (especially now )

i'm not making any judgement as to which scholars may or may not be correct , but i can sense the heavy hand of fear and intimidation and Danny Jowenko could not possibly be dismissed as a flunker .

You do realise that not many respected scholars/pilots believed that the government's staging of the gulf of tonkin incident was possible at the time , and it was only ridiculous lunatics and dropouts that were questioning it ?( or so they were described)

Of course it is common knowledge now that it is, and no doubt many of them would say, " do you know , i thought something was fishy about that , but kept quiet because everyone thought they were mad "

it really seems to me that total belief in either the official version or any conspiracy requires a massive acceptance of an outrageous sequence of events.

[OzFox]

i'm not making any judgement as to which scholars may or may not be correct , but i can sense the heavy hand of fear and intimidation and Danny Jowenko could not possibly be dismissed as a flunker .

You do realise that not many respected scholars/pilots believed that the government's staging of the gulf of tonkin incident was possible at the time , and it was only ridiculous lunatics and dropouts that were questioning it ?( or so they were described)

Of course it is common knowledge now that it is, and no doubt many of them would say, " do you know , i thought something was fishy about that , but kept quiet because everyone thought they were mad "

it really seems to me that total belief in either the official version or any conspiracy requires a massive acceptance of an outrageous sequence of events.

Not sure about Jowenko. He's described as a "top expert" in your video, without any credentials to back it up. No surprises there. He certainly flunks at driving his car Anyway you avoided the question about HOW MANY. Weight of numbers will back up the official (and commonsense) explanation

You keep bringing up the Gulf of Tonkin as though it sets a precedent for 9/11. Tonkin was on a considerably smaller scale with far fewer witnesses. Also it was in the middle of the ocean not in the middle of major cities. Much easier to control and fake.

No Yankee black op kingpin in their right mind would have planned an operation like 9/11 on home soil and hoped to get away with it. Your "outrageous sequence of events" is exactly that, outrageous. Too outrageous to be believed. This doesn't mean to say our glorious leaders don't get up to some monkey business, they just do it on a scale that is, well, manageable!

On a side note, they just showed "United 93" over here. Very good film from a dramatic point of view. Of course it's all a big fat lie. Everyone knows it was shot down by the air force/it was an unmanned drone/didn't really exist at all

[Zingari]

Not sure about Jowenko. He's described as a "top expert" in your video, without any credentials to back it up. No surprises there. He certainly flunks at driving his car Anyway you avoided the question about HOW MANY. Weight of numbers will back up the official (and commonsense) explanation

You keep bringing up the Gulf of Tonkin as though it sets a precedent for 9/11. Tonkin was on a considerably smaller scale with far fewer witnesses. Also it was in the middle of the ocean not in the middle of major cities. Much easier to control and fake.

No Yankee black op kingpin in their right mind would have planned an operation like 9/11 on home soil and hoped to get away with it. Your "outrageous sequence of events" is exactly that, outrageous. Too outrageous to be believed. This doesn't mean to say our glorious leaders don't get up to some monkey business, they just do it on a scale that is, well, manageable!

On a side note, they just showed "United 93" over here. Very good film from a dramatic point of view. Of course it's all a big fat lie. Everyone knows it was shot down by the air force/it was an unmanned drone/didn't really exist at all

so you do accept governments control and fake incidents that lead to bloodshed on a massive scale ?

[Dr The Singh]

so you do accept governments control and fake incidents that lead to bloodshed on a massive scale ?

I do.......you just have to read the Wiki leaks on the India government genocidal attacks on SIkhs and read the mass fake propaganda, fake media reporting and fake encounters that the Indian government instilled on getting rid of half a million Sikhs in 10 years!!!

[Zingari]

basically once someone accepts that governments can , have done , and probably still do control and fake incidents that lead to war etc , then the only obstacle to believing in 911 being such an incident is because it seems too audacious ,

[OzFox]

so you do accept governments control and fake incidents that lead to bloodshed

Oh yeah!! Been doing it for thousands of years probably. Human nature isn't it?

on a massive scale ?

Not on the scaleof 9/11. Too bloody difficult.

Far too many people involved, far too many witnesses, far too many things that could have gone wrong and far too much evidence to the contrary. Oh and blowing up a boring empty building (WTC7) would have been a waste of time, especially after the twin towers spectacular. Liberty or the Empire State on the other hand....

[OzFox]

I do.......you just have to read the Wiki leaks on the India government genocidal attacks on SIkhs and read the mass fake propaganda, fake media reporting and fake encounters that the Indian government instilled on getting rid of half a million Sikhs in 10 years!!!

I've noticed a lot of Sikhs working at Heathrow airport in recent years. Always smiling and friendly when I arrive.

Very suspicious if you ask me.

[Zingari]

Oh yeah!! Been doing it for thousands of years probably. Human nature isn't it?

Not on the scaleof 9/11. Too bloody difficult.

Far too many people involved, far too many witnesses, far too many things that could have gone wrong and far too much evidence to the contrary. Oh and blowing up a boring empty building (WTC7) would have been a waste of time, especially after the twin towers spectacular. Liberty or the Empire State on the other hand....

I'll refer you to my previous quote , because I was expecting this response .

"Basically once someone accepts that governments can , have done , and probably still do control and fake incidents that lead to war etc , then the only obstacle to believing in 911 being such an incident is because it seems too audacious and incredible"

So logically , you believe they would do it if they could ?

What if they knew the incident was occuring as described and allowed it to happen ? would this be possible in your mind set?

,

[Dr The Singh]

I've noticed a lot of Sikhs working at Heathrow airport in recent years. Always smiling and friendly when I arrive.

Very suspicious if you ask me.

Kill them with your cock!!!

[OzFox]

Kill them!!!

Too risky. I've heard stories about those kirpan thingys they hide in the turban

Edit: Would be a bad place to get circumcised

[Dr The Singh]

Too risky. I've heard stories about those kirpan thingys they hide in the turban

Edit: Would be a bad place to get circumcised

Kirpan are not kept in there turban but around there hip!!! They keep bombs, guns, drugs and sex toys in there turban....according to Italian and many airport authorities!!

[OzFox]

I'll refer you to my previous quote , because I was expecting this response .

"Basically once someone accepts that governments can , have done , and probably still do control and fake incidents that lead to war etc , then the only obstacle to believing in 911 being such an incident is because it seems too audacious and incredible"

So logically , you believe they would do it if they could ?

Like I said, not on the scale of 9/11

What if they knew the incident was occuring as described and allowed it to happen ? would this be possible in your mind set?

,

Possible. They had opportunities to nip it in the bud, especially with the whole flight school thing.

Still more likely it was incompetence though. Like I mentioned before, you could draw some parallels with Pearl Harbor. They had ample opportunity to see that coming but got caught with their pants down through lack of communication between government/navy/army. Allegedly.

Then there's Winston. He knew Coventry was about to get flattened but chose to do nothing for political reasons. Allegedly.

[OzFox]

Kirpan are not kept in there turban but around there hip!!! They keep bombs, guns, drugs and sex toys in there turban....according to Italian and many airport authorities!!

Really? Bloody hell. That explains the smiley faces at Heathrow.

I'll mention it next time I pass through immigration.

[Zingari]

Like I said, not on the scale of 9/11

Possible. They had opportunities to nip it in the bud, especially with the whole flight school thing.

Still more likely it was incompetence though. Like I mentioned before, you could draw some parallels with Pearl Harbor. They had ample opportunity to see that coming but got caught with their pants down through lack of communication between government/navy/army. Allegedly.

Then there's Winston. He knew Coventry was about to get flattened but chose to do nothing for political reasons. Allegedly.

if you believe it's "possible" that they allowed it to happen , then by definition , you believe there is/was a "possibility" of a grand conspiracy , and lots of people would have had to be in on this too by your previous argument .

So maybe it's not so ludicrous after all if you now accept the possibility , but would rather "choose" incompetence as an explanation.

Maybe your "choice" of more likely explanations could be the wrong , just as mine could

Incompetence on that scale should have been severely dealt with , have you any evidence that it has been ?

[Trav Le Bleu]

Let it go Zin.

(Softly) Let it go.

[Zingari]

Let it go Zin.

(Softly) Let it go.

no chance

it gives me summat to do in the evening when corrie eastenders and emmerdale are on

[Zingari]

Oh yeah!! Been doing it for thousands of years probably. Human nature isn't it?

Not on the scaleof 9/11. Too bloody difficult.

Far too many people involved, far too many witnesses, far too many things that could have gone wrong and far too much evidence to the contrary. Oh and blowing up a boring empty building (WTC7) would have been a waste of time, especially after the twin towers spectacular. Liberty or the Empire State on the other hand....

i missed this one

you don't believe WTC7 was a boring empty building do you ?

you really ought to look at it again

i've highlighted a couple that are far from boring

Salomon Smith Barney Financial Institution

IRS Regional Council Government

U.S. Secret Service Government

C.I.A. Government

American Express Bank International Financial Institution

Standard Chartered Bank Financial Institution

Provident Financial Management Financial Institution

ITT Hartford Insurance Group 122,590 19-21 [insurance]

First State Management Group, Inc 4,000 21 Insurance

Federal Home Loan Bank 47,490 22 Financial Institution

NAIC Securities 22,500

Securities & Exchange Commission Government

Mayor's Office of Emergency Mgmt Government

[OzFox]

if you believe it's "possible" that they allowed it to happen , then by definition , you believe there is/was a "possibility" of a grand conspiracy , and lots of people would have had to be in on this too by your previous argument .

I'm sure that's a line from JFK. Is that you Oliver?

Far less people would have had to be involved to allow it to happen, than to execute it. Still incredibly unlikely though. The overwhelming mass of evidence (including hundreds of eyewitnesses that you keep ignoring) suggests a terrorist attack and incompetent intelligence agencies. So that's what I believe.

Incompetence on that scale should have been severely dealt with , have you any evidence that it has been ?

Don't be daft. They were far too busy invading Afghanistan and Iraq!

I'm sure a few underlings in the defense department and CIA fell on their swords. It's not always the sort of thing that's made public, for obvious reasons

[OzFox]

i missed this one

you don't believe WTC7 was a boring empty building do you ?

you really ought to look at it again

i've highlighted a couple that are far from boring

Salomon Smith Barney Financial Institution

IRS Regional Council Government

U.S. Secret Service Government

C.I.A. Government

American Express Bank International Financial Institution

Standard Chartered Bank Financial Institution

Provident Financial Management Financial Institution

ITT Hartford Insurance Group 122,590 19-21 [insurance]

First State Management Group, Inc 4,000 21 Insurance

Federal Home Loan Bank 47,490 22 Financial Institution

NAIC Securities 22,500

Securities & Exchange Commission Government

Mayor's Office of Emergency Mgmt Government

Nit-picker. You know what I mean. There were far more symbolic targets.

Like I said, why risk exposure when you've just achieved the near impossible by knocking down the Twin Towers next door?

[Zingari]

I'm sure that's a line from JFK. Is that you Oliver?

Far less people would have had to be involved to allow it to happen, than to execute it. Still incredibly unlikely though. The overwhelming mass of evidence (including hundreds of eyewitnesses that you keep ignoring) suggests a terrorist attack and incompetent intelligence agencies. So that's what I believe.

Don't be daft. They were far too busy invading Afghanistan and Iraq!

I'm sure a few underlings in the defense department and CIA fell on their swords. It's not always the sort of thing that's made public, for obvious reasons

idon't keep ignoring them , i keep trying to tell you that eye witness accounts are very contradictory and not to be takjen as a true representation of fact , here's a couple for you to ignore

edit;

i do know the witness in front of the pentagon has been misquoted

[OzFox]

idon't keep ignoring them , i keep trying to tell you that eye witness accounts are very contradictory and not to be takjen as a true representation of fact , here's a couple for you to ignore

Some of them are contradictory but the overwhelming mass of eyewitness reports don't back up your theories, which is why you ignore them or play them down

You're becoming a lone voice in the wilderness on this thread. That's lone voice, not lone gunman.

By the way Danny Jowenko's dog was found dead this morning. Choked on a bone. They're coming for you next