Mystery of WTC 7 - Conspiracy

[Rincewind]

I like the turtle story.

It seems my posts are being taken too literally and not seen as they are meant to be. Questioning all official expertise accounts of historical events of the past. With regards to Harold all official accounts say that he was shot in the eye. Could it not also be possible that he received the point of an arrow iup his arse? This account would be more embarrassing for King Harolds followers so being shot in the eye would more in the line of kings finally succombing to the eniemy but in a brave sort of way.

Boston Tea Party. Infutrated by members of another tea drinking organization who put in place their own agenda for a tea party.

But it seems I am the only one that understands me which is fine by me because going by some of the crazy arguments on here I know that I am still sane.

Or am I?

[fleckneymike]

Do people who claim it was a drone actually know what a drone is?

[Rincewind]

looks like a turtle.

[shen]

Zing, I can kind of see the reasoning in your WTC 7 ideas, even if they're on a pretty thin basis (we agree that the official explanation is flawed and that things don't add up, mainly because we're skeptical that a steel-framed building can collapse as symmetrically as it did because of a single column buckling as a result of fire induced failure). However, your Pentagon ideas are so far-fetched and based on nothing quite frankly. There is no evidence that you can point to that couldn't just as plausibly be a 757. And that's the crux of the matter. You cannot from the omissions conclude that it wasn't a 757 nor can you prove it was anything but a 757. You are however right to question the unwillingness to release evidence publicly, and even question the motives to do so.

[OzFox]

Airplane wreckage, human remains, grieving families, dozens of witnesses on the nearby freeway...what more do you want? Oh you want footage of the plane hitting the building.

Can I ask what difference it would make to your opinion Zingari? You've got crystal clear footage of planes hitting the twin towers and you still think there's a conspiracy.

I suspect that even you had a plum shot of a plane clipping lamp posts and piling into the side of the Pentagon, shot in HD from the grass verge, you'd still be making an issue out of the size of the hole

[Fox92]

Did anyone watch consiperacy files on Tuesday night? It was the attacks on September 11th. Although I don't believe them alot of good points were actually raised. For example: when the aeroplane that crashed into the field was discovered no bodies were found, a Boeing 757 with a massive wingspan only left something like a 18 inch whole in the Pentagon, and of course, the WTC 7 building which fell even though no aircraft hit it.

I love aircraft right, I have fact books and all that. You have to remember the aircraft fuel is 100 times more dangerous than normal car fuel. When the aircrafts hit the Twin Towers, the fuel sprayed everywhere (I suppose even outside as well) which would have bent the steel (not as in bend, but make it lighter) and caused the building to collapse. But, like you mentioned, all 3 collapsed normal at first, but if you look deeper like these people do, not everything meets the eye and it does look like a controlled demolision.

Remember when the Twin Towers were attacked before 2001, in the year 1997 was it? When bombs were planted within the lobby which caused an explosion. Why couldn't that have happened on 9/11? And with the help of two aircrafts the building went. WTC 7 remains a mystery though, its the point of this thread I know, (even though there are more), but the US government still holds the truth which is why these American people start these mytery websites and stories.

The programme was speaking to air traffic control officers and air force officers from that day. This is going back to the twin towers attacks now, and even though the air force knew several planes were hijacked they didn't know which ones and their location. So, they flew east to the coast as they said an attack would be 'external', not inside America as it was obviously.

In my opinion though, it was just a terrorist attack. Even though some things don't add up, I can't see the government murdering 3,000 of their own people, and destroying buildings that symbolise (or did then) the country. I just think that these stories are abit sick for the families of those that died, because it must of been worse than everything you can imagine being on one of those aircrafts.

.. I have still not added to the whole WTC 7 thing.

[Rincewind]

I don't think, as in police murder investigations that all the facts in official reports are made known to the public. This may well appear to be a cover up to the skeptics but witholding information can a) mislead the perpertrator into making a mistake. b) the police may have evidence but not reliable in court without yet to be found evidence.

With 9/11 there maybe suspects that are still being investigated. How would it be if they suspected a bomb expert of planting an explosive device and were keeping a surveilance on them then the therorists made public their name. The whole investigation would be destroyed as the suspect would know all about it.

I may be wrong but is the idea more crazy than some of the conspiracy therories put forward?

[shen]

In my opinion though, it was just a terrorist attack. Even though some things don't add up, I can't see the government murdering 3,000 of their own people, and destroying buildings that symbolise (or did then) the country. I just think that these stories are abit sick for the families of those that died, because it must of been worse than everything you can imagine being on one of those aircrafts.

Sorry for playing the cynical devil's advocate, but why not? If I were to do an attack on my own country, I'd choose the most symbolic landmarks to increase the psychological effect. And you could imagine scenarios where the victims killed were a preventive measure (i.e. a real terror attack would have claimed more victims), or one done 'for the greater good of the nation'.

[purpleronnie]

Aliens built the pyramids.

You weren't there so you can't say they didn't.

[Fox92]

Do people who claim it was a drone actually know what a drone is?

Probably not.

Sorry for playing the cynical devil's advocate, but why not? If I were to do an attack on my own country, I'd choose the most symbolic landmarks to increase the psychological effect. And you could imagine scenarios where the victims killed were a preventive measure (i.e. a real terror attack would have claimed more victims), or one done 'for the greater good of the nation'.

I don't know really, why would they? I still see it as it is, and no more than that. I think that the duration of the attacks didn't help when there was an air force aircraft flying at the same time, and that when the air force tried to intercept they didn't know where to go as an attack would be 'external'. These theories are a large coincidence and we shouldn't be looking further into it, I'm pretty posotive that the buildings in sorrounding area, if WTC 7, fell due to the force of the collapse, or the fuel, or something, I don't know.

[zubi]

In my opinion though, it was just a terrorist attack. Even though some things don't add up, I can't see the government murdering 3,000 of their own people, and destroying buildings that symbolise (or did then) the country. I just think that these stories are abit sick for the families of those that died, because it must of been worse than everything you can imagine being on one of those aircrafts.

.. I have still not added to the whole WTC 7 thing.

There is the side to the story that the American government did so as a false flag attack in order to invade Iraq and Afghanistan. This way, the patriots of the country will insist America invades its enemies and take revenge for what has happened. All the mean while super powers take over natural resources without media attention. Iraq was supposedly about disarming wmd's which were never found and Aghanistan was all about... I dont know something about Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda? Even though they claim to operate all over the middle east not just Afghanistan.

It may sound very extreme and harsh to say, but maybe Super Powers of the world though the lives of 3000+ people were not worth more than the oil interest now in Iraq.

[marko]

There is the side to the story that the American government did so as a false flag attack in order to invade Iraq and Afghanistan. This way, the patriots of the country will insist America invades its enemies and take revenge for what has happened. All the mean while super powers take over natural resources without media attention. Iraq was supposedly about disarming wmd's which were never found and Aghanistan was all about... I dont know something about Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda? Even though they claim to operate all over the middle east not just Afghanistan.

It may sound very extreme and harsh to say, but maybe Super Powers of the world though the lives of 3000+ people were not worth more than the oil interest now in Iraq.

Right, so a Government that went to the trouble of plotting, planning and executing of flying two passenger airlines in to an iconic American landmark (some nut cases even allege they rigged them and performed a controlled demolition on WTC 1 & 2), flew a plane/drone/missile in to the Pentagon AND rigged WTC 7 with explosives to bring it crashing down; couldn't even be bothered to sneak a few dirty weapons and chemical labs in to Iraq to justify their military force and presence???

I find that hard to believe, especially as they're such naughty, naughty boys!!!

[Zingari]

Right, so a Government that went to the trouble of plotting, planning and executing of flying two passenger airlines in to an iconic American landmark (some nut cases even allege they rigged them and performed a controlled demolition on WTC 1 & 2), flew a plane/drone/missile in to the Pentagon AND rigged WTC 7 with explosives to bring it crashing down; couldn't even be bothered to sneak a few dirty weapons and chemical labs in to Iraq to justify their military force and presence???

I find that hard to believe, especially as they're such naughty, naughty boys!!!

Yet you find it easy to believe that 19 lads could defeat the might of the whole US trillion dollar norad defence system , jump into the cockpits of 4 airliners that none had any experience of flying , simultaneously switching of the transponders , overcome the crews with box cutters , navigate thousands of miles undetected in aircraft that they were totally unfamiliar with , do aeronautical feats of accomplishments that leave top gun pilots aghast . and just happen to do this on a day when similar excersises are in operation .( negating any argument that this type of attack could be described as unexpected )

By any reckoning this makes them extremely gifted and lucky

This apart from the fact that it’s not easy to get 19 people to commit suicide in such a fashion .

This is james bond type fantasy

This is among lots of other anomalies. such as the WTC7 collapse and odd looking damage to the pentagon etc etc etc

.Lets face, both versions are incredible and regardless of what you , I, or anyone else believes , many others will continue to try to get more credible answers, and who can blame them ?

I really really , do not know what to believe and do not ever realistically expect everyone to be fully convinced by the official line. Not in my lifetime anyway

But ok I realise conspiracy theories can sound loopy , but you also have to remember the official version is a just conspiracy theory too.

[purpleronnie]

This is james bond type fantasy

No its reality, Surely deep down you realise that to think 9/11 is a conspiracy is lunacy?

But I guess no-one will change your mind so theres nothing more to be said really.

Oh and what do you think about my theory on aliens building the pyramids.

[marko]

Yet you find it easy to believe that 19 lads could defeat the might of the whole US trillion dollar norad defence system , jump into the cockpits of 4 airliners that none had any experience of flying , simultaneously switching of the transponders , overcome the crews with box cutters , navigate thousands of miles undetected in aircraft that they were totally unfamiliar with , do aeronautical feats of accomplishments that leave top gun pilots aghast . and just happen to do this on a day when similar excersises are in operation .( negating any argument that this type of attack could be described as unexpected )

By any reckoning this makes them extremely gifted and lucky

This apart from the fact that it’s not easy to get 19 people to commit suicide in such a fashion .

This is james bond type fantasy

This is among lots of other anomalies. such as the WTC7 collapse and odd looking damage to the pentagon etc etc etc

.Lets face, both versions are incredible and regardless of what you , I, or anyone else believes , many others will continue to try to get more credible answers, and who can blame them ?

I really really , do not know what to believe and do not ever realistically expect everyone to be fully convinced by the official line. Not in my lifetime anyway

But ok I realise conspiracy theories can sound loopy , but you also have to remember the official version is a just conspiracy theory too.

Hang on Zing...rewind as you're missing my point.

Let's say for one mad minute the US Government did do all this, then surely planting a few pieces of dirty evidence in Iraq would be child's play for such criminal masterminds?

If they'd go to the trouble of achieved the worlds greatest terror attack, surely they wouldn't be so sloppy as to be caught out by a lack of chemical weapons in Iraq? Furthermore, when you consider the political and humanitarian opposition to the invasion, then surely they'd plant something just to say "ha, told you so!".

[zubi]

Right, so a Government that went to the trouble of plotting, planning and executing of flying two passenger airlines in to an iconic American landmark (some nut cases even allege they rigged them and performed a controlled demolition on WTC 1 & 2), flew a plane/drone/missile in to the Pentagon AND rigged WTC 7 with explosives to bring it crashing down; couldn't even be bothered to sneak a few dirty weapons and chemical labs in to Iraq to justify their military force and presence???

I find that hard to believe, especially as they're such naughty, naughty boys!!!

Well fair enough that is a good argument, I can only assume by planting evidence of WMD's they would have to spend more on weaponry and totally annihalate Iraq and it's bordering countries? Iran have Nuclear facilities so I assume they would have been next, if they are not so already?. Plus they might need to keep some infrastructure and sanity around Iraq to move their oil around

But like Zingari has been saying, the American defence is one of the most sophisticated in the world. As well as having one of the most sophisticated Air traffic systems, they can monitor the flight paths of all the planes in the sky, yet for some reason they didn't pick up on the high jacked planes which made U-turns to blow up their targets. If they did pick up on this they would have been able to establish contact and even without contact they would at least assume something was wrong. Then im sure the U.S Airforce would have been involved and could have intercepted the planes in very little time. To me that is one of the biggest problems with 9/11... amongst many others

[Zingari]

Hang on Zing...rewind as you're missing my point.

Let's say for one mad minute the US Government did do all this, then surely planting a few pieces of dirty evidence in Iraq would be child's play for such criminal masterminds?

If they'd go to the trouble of achieved the worlds greatest terror attack, surely they wouldn't be so sloppy as to be caught out by a lack of chemical weapons in Iraq? Furthermore, when you consider the political and humanitarian opposition to the invasion, then surely they'd plant something just to say "ha, told you so!".

No i'm not really missing your point

Have you ever heard this quote from PNAC when planning new plans for military growth ?

"absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event––like a new Pearl Harbour"

planting dirty evidence wouldn't achieve this .

i agree though , it does all sound very crazy , both sides of the argument can be both convincing and loopy

i just keep reading stuff , watching stuff , and looking things up , but just find i am getting more and more confused by conflicting expert opinions and evidence

for instance ;

i read to that the FDR ( black box)had been examined by a team of experts who are convinced that the cabin flight door had remained closed for the whole duration , If this is true it makes the whole scenario of passengers getting acces to the cockpit impossible.

but no doubt someone will say this is false too

basically what i'm saying is that i can well understand folk who do not believe conspiracy angle , i just can't understand the lack of any real suspicion

[zubi]

basically what i'm saying is that i can well understand folk who do not believe conspiracy angle , i just can't understand the lack of any real suspicion

Agreed!

[purpleronnie]

No i'm not really missing your point

Have you ever heard this quote from PNAC when planning new plans for military growth ?

"absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event––like a new Pearl Harbour"

planting dirty evidence wouldn't achieve this .

i agree though , it does all sound very crazy , both sides of the argument can be both convincing and loopy

i just keep reading stuff , watching stuff , and looking things up , but just find i am getting more and more confused by conflicting expert opinions and evidence

for instance ;

i read to that the FDR ( black box)had been examined by a team of experts who are convinced that the cabin flight door had remained closed for the whole duration , If this is true it makes the whole scenario of passengers getting acces to the cockpit impossible.

but no doubt someone will say this is false too

basically what i'm saying is that i can well understand folk who do not believe conspiracy angle , i just can't understand the lack of any real suspicion

Just to stop any confusion do you actually believe that terrorists didn't attack the US. Or do you believe they had help, if so who from and why?

cheers.

[shen]

But I guess no-one will change your mind so theres nothing more to be said really.

I suppose no-one can change your mind about the official accounts delivering the truth about the events surrounding 9/11 either. There are perfectly valid reasons to be suspicious, yet you seem to be completely ignorant of these

[Zingari]

Just to stop any confusion do you actually believe that terrorists didn't attack the US. Or do you believe they had help, if so who from and why?

cheers.

i've tried to explain many times that i really do not know ,i neither have the intelligence or the access to find out what really happened

But I'm deeply suspicious about the whole business now because so many experts in their field are questioning the validity of the goverments version of events and I really believe it's time to take some notice of groups such as architects and engineers , scholars and pilots for 911 truth

it really doesn't matter an enron pension what i believe

[marko]

I suppose no-one can change your mind about the official accounts delivering the truth about the events surrounding 9/11 either. There are perfectly valid reasons to be suspicious, yet you seem to be completely ignorant of these

Perhaps he's not ignorant. He could have easily read both sides of the argument and come down on the official side. It's not beyond the realms of possibility.

[Zingari]

Perhaps he's not ignorant. He could have easily read both sides of the argument and come down on the official side. It's not beyond the realms of possibility.

this could of course apply to architects engineers , scholars , pilots 911 truth who have not

[marko]

this could of course apply to architects engineers , scholars , pilots 911 truth who have not

It could also apply to the many, many architects, engineers, scholars, pilots and 911 truthers who pour cold water all over the conspiracy theory.

[Zingari]

It could also apply to the many, many architects, engineers, scholars, pilots and 911 truthers who pour cold water all over the conspiracy theory.

so if experts in their own field disagree , then you can only come to the conclusion that no-one really knows