Mystery of WTC 7 - Conspiracy

[fleckneymike]

No I don't think they would need to. The American people were pretty riled up by the whole event and they expected their country to attack another to make them feel secure and in charge. When George Bush pointed his finger at iraq i'm pretty sure the majority of Americans thought that was where they were breeding terrorists and were on board with the idea.

Plus alot of them have never seen a map before according to this video

But if they organised it why go to the bother of linking the attacks to Saudi Arabia (their ally) rather than Iraq (their enemy)? It makes no sense at all. If they can orchestrate the smallest detail, linking it to Iraq would be child's play.

[Zingari]

I don't give a chuff about the Gulf of Tonkin, we're talking about 9/11. Were the cover-ups on the same scale? I'll answer that one for free...NO.

Just because an old, totally disconnected administration did something doesn't mean the 9/11 Government did.

Please, please, please stop referring to the Gulf of Tonkin, it's of no relevance at all.

have you never heard the phrase about learning from history ?

why are you so concerned about whether or not someone believes the government may be lying to us this time ?

how does it affect you ? surely if they are wrong , so what ?

you seem to be protesting too much

[zubi]

But if they organised it why go to the bother of linking the attacks to Saudi Arabia (their ally) rather than Iraq (their enemy)? It makes no sense at all. If they can orchestrate the smallest detail, linking it to Iraq would be child's play.

In my opinion I don't think they would have needed to. They were attacked on their own soil, despite having the best Army and most sophisticated defence in the world, America was vulnerable to being attacked by a few uneducated arabs who hijacked 4 planes.

There main basis was that Iraq had WMDS... Capable of reaching America! That would have shit up their civillians and they would have had no problem in stopping them by going to war with them.

[fleckneymike]

i haven't

i was asked why so many "experts" may kept quiet.

By using the example of the Gulf of Tonkin you were drawing a comparison. You were implying that some sort of intimidation of experts had prevented the truth about the Gulf of Tonkin emerging and therefor one should expect that experts who would ordinarily look into 9/11 are either too afraid to or are willing to falsify their findings to support the official account.

[marko]

have you never heard the phrase about learning from history ?

why are you so concerned about whether or not someone believes the government may be lying to us this time ?

how does it affect you ? surely if they are wrong , so what ?

you seem to be protesting too much

So they're guilty by association?

I'm not bothered in the slightest what you believe, it makes no difference to my life whatsoever. If you want to believe the Bush administration blew up WTC 7, flew military jets into the WTC's, fired missiles at the Pentagon and shot down a commercial jet, then that's your prerogative. It just amazes me that people believe these tenuous, paper thin conspiracy theories, yet are quick to dispel scientific facts provided by those who put forward by many, many experts.

[fleckneymike]

In my opinion I don't think they would have needed to. They were attacked on their own soil, despite having the best Army and most sophisticated defence in the world, America was vulnerable to being attacked by a few uneducated arabs who hijacked 4 planes.

There main basis was that Iraq had WMDS... Capable of reaching America! That would have shit up their civillians and they would have had no problem in stopping them by going to war with them.

Like I've already posted, why stage an attack but fail to link it to Iraq when allegedly that's why you staged the attack in the first place? If it is all about oil why connect your biggest ally and one of the worlds largest producers of oil in Saudi Arabia, why not go for one of the countries you hate like Syria, Iran, Iraq?

[Zingari]

So they're guilty by association?

I'm not bothered in the slightest what you believe, it makes no difference to my life whatsoever. If you want to believe the Bush administration blew up WTC 7, flew military jets into the WTC's, fired missiles at the Pentagon and shot down a commercial jet, then that's your prerogative. It just amazes me that people believe these tenuous, paper thin conspiracy theories, yet are quick to dispel scientific facts provided by those who put forward by many, many experts.

well leave it there for a while then because even the experts are getting confused ( listen around 39 seconds)

bye for now

[marko]

well leave it there for a while then because even the experts are getting confused ( listen around 39 seconds)

bye for now

Obviously guilty as charged then. I'm sure you've never mistakenly said something you didn't mean

Edit - it's a good job the conspiracy theories don't confuse and contradict each other or you'd never believe them...oh, wait a minute, they do.

[zubi]

Like I've already posted, why stage an attack but fail to link it to Iraq when allegedly that's why you staged the attack in the first place? If it is all about oil why connect your biggest ally and one of the worlds largest producers of oil in Saudi Arabia, why not go for one of the countries you hate like Syria, Iran, Iraq?

I suppose if you linked them with weapons of mass destruction and publicised this to the world then you would have to publicise their de-arming. If you did this then there would be a lot of pressure on countries like America, Israel, Pakistan, Korea, Britain etc to disarm their own WMDS.

I don't understand what you mean by linking Saudi Arabia, about the oil part anway. Can you elaborate?

[BoneDog]

Just because an old, totally disconnected administration did something doesn't mean the 9/11 Government did.

Do you really believe that each administration is a fresh start with no connection to a former administration? That idea is very easy to discredit. The same people are in the background for decades. The list is endless. I won't bother posting a list because I think people know most of the names already.

[marko]

Do you really believe that each administration is a fresh start with no connection to a former administration? That idea is very easy to discredit. The same people are in the background for decades. The list is endless. I won't bother posting a list because I think people know most of the names already.

Go ahead, discredit me. I'm sure it'll be even easier to discredit your tenuous links between administrations.

Please, do share the names of all these naughty, naughty men with me, whilst you're at it perhaps you could post this evidence about the 9/11 hijack pilots living it up in their homeland as well?

Don't tell me...the New World Order and Illuminati are coming?

[BoneDog]

I'm not even going to respond to the absurd first para.

The physics i'm talking about is your constant procrastination that the plane could not possibly do damage to the pentagon. Mainly based on the argument that it's PARTLY made of light weight materials. As I have pointed out (along with others) is that that doesn't matter, what matters is it's mass and it's velocity (not forgetting the fuel). Which combine enough force to do a shit load of damage to pretty much anything it comes into contact with, reinforced or not.

Reinforced means it it stronger than normal build standards, it does not mean it's impervious to the laws of physics.

The free fall thing has been gone over 100 times, there are lots of videos you can watch (I know you like them) that will explain it to you.

Didn't expect you to respond to the first paragraph as none of you have any real answers as to why US defences were stood down or as to why some of the hijackers were not dead after 911. Very fundamental points.

A 757 couldn't cause the damage that happened to The Pentagon. I never said it couldn't do any damage, just that it didn't cause the damage that day. That fact will never change.

You guys keep bringing velocity and kinetic energy etc. into it, but I think that you should look a bit more into pressure and density especially as you compare a 757 to a bullet! A simple inspection of the damage right through to the perfectly circular exit hole show that your belief is wrong.

[marko]

Didn't expect you to respond to the first paragraph as none of you have any real answers as to why US defences were stood down or as to why some of the hijackers were not dead after 911. Very fundamental points.

A 757 couldn't cause the damage that happened to The Pentagon. I never said it couldn't do any damage, just that it didn't cause the damage that day. That fact will never change.

You guys keep bringing velocity and kinetic energy etc. into it, but I think that you should look a bit more into pressure and density especially as you compare a 757 to a bullet! A simple inspection of the damage right through to the perfectly circular exit hole show that your belief is wrong.

They were on a route exercise. Prove it, you keep bleating on about these hijackers but have yet to provide a shred of evidence that proves they're alive.

Again, prove it. How do you know what the structural integrity of the Pentagon was like and what sort of impact a 100 tonne plane loaded with fuel and travelling at a rate of knots would have? What about all the eye witnesses? how can you discredit them? Don't tell me, they were in on it as well. Oh, the lamp posts as well, what about them?

No, the small exit hole is easily explained and it has been a thousand times over.

[fleckneymike]

They were on a route exercise. Prove it, you keep bleating on about these hijackers but have yet to provide a shred of evidence that proves they're alive.

Again, prove it. How do you know what the structural integrity of the Pentagon was like and what sort of impact a 100 tonne plane loaded with fuel and travelling at a rate of knots would have? What about all the eye witnesses? how can you discredit them? Don't tell me, they were in on it as well. Oh, the lamp posts as well, what about them?

No, the small exit hole is easily explained and it has been a thousand times over.

The lamp posts were in on it too! Have you never seen Thuderbirds? Gerry Anderson was making palm trees lie down back in the sixties, the same folks who worked for International Rescue wound up in the second Bush administration.

[Babylon]

Didn't expect you to respond to the first paragraph as none of you have any real answers as to why US defences were stood down or as to why some of the hijackers were not dead after 911. Very fundamental points.

There are no answers to why they are alive, because they are dead. You have showed ZERO proof of them being alive. US defences were not stood down, there are 4 scramblers only to cover that part of America. There is so much documentation on what happened, where they jets went and why. Are you telling me you haven't read any of it? Or is it that you just don't want to believe it? You'd rather believe anyone who says what you want to hear.

A 757 couldn't cause the damage that happened to The Pentagon. I never said it couldn't do any damage, just that it didn't cause the damage that day. That fact will never change.

You guys keep bringing velocity and kinetic energy etc. into it, but I think that you should look a bit more into pressure and density especially as you compare a 757 to a bullet! A simple inspection of the damage right through to the perfectly circular exit hole show that your belief is wrong.

It's not a fact just because some bloke on youtube says it. It's pointless, arguing you clearly don't want to hear anything else.

This is a plane being made, look at the extremely dense framework that the rest of the plane is built around. Just because some parts aren't dense, and some parts are made of light materials, does not mean it all is. Please take this on board!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5sYSL6cJVM

Do you agree planes hit the twin towers? If so look again at the planes crashing in to it. These are extremely strong structures, not only does the plane slice through it like butter, it also slices through all the interior beams and walls etc and comes out the other side. (as shown in clips earlier).

You have absolutely no idea, what forces the Pentagon was reinforced to withstand. It certainly wasn't made to withstand everything because they have bunkers underneath it to keep people safe. From what I remember (may be wrong) it was reinforced after the oklahoma bombing. So there is a good possibility it's defences where made to withstand a blast from a stationery bomb.

[marko]

The lamp posts were in on it too! Have you never seen Thuderbirds? Gerry Anderson was making palm trees lie down back in the sixties, the same folks who worked for International Rescue wound up in the second Bush administration.

Thanks for clearing that up, I knew there'd be a logical explanation. Can't believe I missed it to be honest.

[BoneDog]

Go ahead, discredit me. I'm sure it'll be even easier to discredit your tenuous links between administrations.

Please, do share the names of all these naughty, naughty men with me, whilst you're at it perhaps you could post this evidence about the 9/11 hijack pilots living it up in their homeland as well?

Don't tell me...the New World Order and Illuminati are coming?

Do you know anything about the background to 911 at all?!

The supposed hijackers were not living it up in their homelands, they were living it up around different bars and clubs in the US. Well known. There are many witness statements about the hijackers movements and character in the months leading up to 911.

Do you want them to be Islamic guys for some reason? Because the truth is that they weren't Islamic people in any way.

As for discrediting your feeling that there are no links between administrations, there's no need, most people already know if they have any memory or take any notice. I could name 40 now but just look up the obvious names like Bush (who have been heavily involved since before WWII), Rumsfeld (doing deals for at least 25 years at the top level), Henry K and so on. And what about the people who were in the last administration and came over to the other side with Barry when he got the job? I think that the reason you don't see this is because you just take notice of the spokespeople and not the committees / lobby groups who do all the advising and arm twisting.

[marko]

Do you know anything about the background to 911 at all?!

The supposed hijackers were not living it up in their homelands, they were living it up around different bars and clubs in the US. Well known. There are many witness statements about the hijackers movements and character in the months leading up to 911.

Do you want them to be Islamic guys for some reason? Because the truth is that they weren't Islamic people in any way.

As for discrediting your feeling that there are no links between administrations, there's no need, most people already know if they have any memory or take any notice. I could name 40 now but just look up the obvious names like Bush (who have been heavily involved since before WWII), Rumsfeld (doing deals for at least 25 years at the top level), Henry K and so on. And what about the people who were in the last administration and came over to the other side with Barry when he got the job? I think that the reason you don't see this is because you just take notice of the spokespeople and not the committees / lobby groups who do all the advising and arm twisting.

Yes, better than you. I'm talking about after the attacks, where you stated they're alive and well back home.

[l444ry]

There are no answers to why they are alive, because they are dead. You have showed ZERO proof of them being alive. US defences were not stood down, there are 4 scramblers only to cover that part of America. There is so much documentation on what happened, where they jets went and why. Are you telling me you haven't read any of it? Or is it that you just don't want to believe it? You'd rather believe anyone who says what you want to hear.

It's not a fact just because some bloke on youtube says it. It's pointless, arguing you clearly don't want to hear anything else.

This is a plane being made, look at the extremely dense framework that the rest of the plane is built around. Just because some parts aren't dense, and some parts are made of light materials, does not mean it all is. Please take this on board!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5sYSL6cJVM

Do you agree planes hit the twin towers? If so look again at the planes crashing in to it. These are extremely strong structures, not only does the plane slice through it like butter, it also slices through all the interior beams and walls etc and comes out the other side. (as shown in clips earlier).

You have absolutely no idea, what forces the Pentagon was reinforced to withstand. It certainly wasn't made to withstand everything because they have bunkers underneath it to keep people safe. From what I remember (may be wrong) it was reinforced after the oklahoma bombing. So there is a good possibility it's defences where made to withstand a blast from a stationery bomb.

You deserve a medal for trying to penetrate the minds of this paranoid crew Babylon. You're wasting your time because it's like trying to convince schizophrenics that their delusions aren't real.

As the psychologists say, "mental issues and irrationality cannot be dealt with logic and facts." That's the big problem with these well meaning fruitcakes.......

[Rincewind]

I do not have a physics degree so I bow down to those that do. Isn't it true that those that believe 9/11 was a conspiracy also feel the same about the moon landing Kennedy assisation and area 61? Governments will never be trusted mostly because of their own doing and this brings the theroists out of the woodwork who question everything the government does says or mimes. Uncertainty brings questions and once asked the answers are even harder to believe once they are disbelieved before they are answered..

I hope that makes some sort of sense. It did when I was typing it.

[marko]

You deserve a medal for trying to penetrate the minds of this paranoid crew Babylon. You're wasting your time because it's like trying to convince schizophrenics that their delusions aren't real.

As the psychologists say, "mental issues and irrationality cannot be dealt with logic and facts." That's the big problem with these well meaning fruitcakes.......

He deserves more than that!!! Christ, I bet it's easier raising the dead than getting some folks to see the blindingly obvious truth.

[fleckneymike]

Do you know anything about the background to 911 at all?!

The supposed hijackers were not living it up in their homelands, they were living it up around different bars and clubs in the US. Well known. There are many witness statements about the hijackers movements and character in the months leading up to 911.

Do you want them to be Islamic guys for some reason? Because the truth is that they weren't Islamic people in any way.

As for discrediting your feeling that there are no links between administrations, there's no need, most people already know if they have any memory or take any notice. I could name 40 now but just look up the obvious names like Bush (who have been heavily involved since before WWII), Rumsfeld (doing deals for at least 25 years at the top level), Henry K and so on. And what about the people who were in the last administration and came over to the other side with Barry when he got the job? I think that the reason you don't see this is because you just take notice of the spokespeople and not the committees / lobby groups who do all the advising and arm twisting.

Hang on, so the shady figures responsible for this are in fact the most prominent members of Bush Snr, Bush Jnr, Gerald Ford and Nixon administrations. That's not very shady.

Your logic on the terrorists is impecable, in a fiendishly clever plot to link Islam to terrorism they deliberately chose the least 'islamic' terrorists they could. I mean masterminding the whole thing took ages so when it came to choosing the culprits they probably thought '**** it, flying planes into buildings to disguise a controlled demolition using a paint we invented specially for the mission has taken way longer than we expected, lets just blame those dudes who don't fit the stereotype at all. I'm sure no one will notice"

[Babylon]

You deserve a medal for trying to penetrate the minds of this paranoid crew Babylon.

I generally find my self in these threads when the main Leicester forum is calling for the managers head after a few games of the season. I feel I have more chanced of convincing El Empty he's wrong, than convincing everyone sacking the manager 6 games into a season after he's just assembled a squad of his own players, may not be the best idea in the world.

[easilee]

[Rincewind]

The deeper the hole is dug by the pro-conspraters the more absurd the therories become. The US government maybe corupt and stupid but several members of the FBI CIA bomb desposal experts airline pilots and many more American citizens being involved in the most cunning plan of all cunnig plans? I find it hard to believe. Nay impossible.