PM backing alcohol minimum pricing..

[Captain...]

Having a minimum price wont stop this.

My not stop it but underage drinkers probably won't have that much money, and I know when I was drinking down the park at 15/16 we bought the cheapest stuff we could get our hands on. So it might discourage it.

Of course there is the danger of it creating a black market where people flog off alcohol on the cheap, but you can't not implement sensible changes because of illegal activity.

[davieG]

My not stop it but underage drinkers probably won't have that much money, and I know when I was drinking down the park at 15/16 we bought the cheapest stuff we could get our hands on. So it might discourage it.

Of course there is the danger of it creating a black market where people flog off alcohol on the cheap, but you can't not implement sensible changes because of illegal activity.

Maybe but you could end up creating the climate for increased illegal activity.

Young people will view it as a challenge and they may buy the cheapest but I doubt that's what they were expecting to get in those types of shops which from my experience are usually on the expensive side.

[Captain...]

Maybe but you could end up creating the climate for increased illegal activity.

Young people will view it as a challenge and they may buy the cheapest but I doubt that's what they were expecting to get in those types of shops which from my experience are usually on the expensive side.

Possibly or it could create a market for cheap low strength beer.

[FoxyPV]

8 500ml Heineken for £10 in the local offy isn't too bad.

[Haydos]

8 500ml Heineken for £10 in the local offy isn't too bad.

Compared to the 15 for £10 you can get at a lot of supermarkets it is. If people want to get pissed they'll drink super strength beer and cider or spirits, not 4% cans of lager. I buy them at this value because it'll last a few weeks and I save a fair bit in the long term.

Just feels like it's targeting the wrong people.

[Rincewind]

An idea has just occurred to me. Not thought it through so don't call me names.

What if larger quantities from supermarkets could only be made online? You would only have access if you were 18+ and maybe signed up with a special card which you would show when collecting.

Like I said it's just an ide. Maybe it can be revised into a better one.

[Oxfordfox83]

Crap idea. Quadrupling the price of fags over 12 years didn't stop anyone smoking, only the indoors ban did.

Solution to bingeing:

Tax breaks for pubs, where the landlord is held accountable for anyone wasted on their premises.

Tax hikes for offies.

Drinking age reduced to 16 only in pubs, getting people used to drinking in social environments.

Drinking reduced to 14 for the odd pint in presence of a guardian.

People, especially young people, drink fast and strong, because they can't do it in public in a social way. Hence the bingeing. Make it cheaper in responsible places, encourage people to start drinking in moderation and in public, then when they're 18 they won't go quite so mental...

[Oxfordfox83]

Not 'crap idea' to Nightguard btw, to Cameron...

[Rincewind]

There is very little binge drinking in France and Spain. In parts of Europe some people have a beer with their breakfast. It is brewed with that in mind. Children sit around the family table where there is plenty of wine drunk. There is no need for them to drink on street corners as when they are thought mature enough they are allowed to drink with the adults. Continentals are relaxed over drink laws so grow up with a sensible attitude.

[Oxfordfox83]

There is very little binge drinking in France and Spain. In parts of Europe some people have a beer with their breakfast. It is brewed with that in mind. Children sit around the family table where there is plenty of wine drunk. There is no need for them to drink on street corners as when they are thought mature enough they are allowed to drink with the adults. Continentals are relaxed over drink laws so grow up with a sensible attitude.

This, completely. Conversely, the yanks have such draconian laws that my 55 year old dad has to show ID to buy whatever passes for beer out there. They also have the highest level of alcoholism in the world. Whose lead should we follow DC...?

[The Don]

It was only 3 years ago, me and the wife were so skint, we couldn't afford to go out. We like to have a drink, and the only thing we could afford was cheap cider - we would have a bottle over the weekend maybe! Now we have a bit more money, we each have a couple of beers a night, but hardly ever go out - this equates to 30 cans per week, all bought at special offers! 30 cans per week sounds a lot but is still within the recommended units per day! Maybe we should cut down a bit, but it's my choice and I do not want the government falsely inflating prices to effect my choice

[Captain...]

This, completely. Conversely, the yanks have such draconian laws that my 55 year old dad has to show ID to buy whatever passes for beer out there. They also have the highest level of alcoholism in the world. Whose lead should we follow DC...?

They also have some of the highest rates of drug abuse in first world countries, partly because it is so much easier to get hold of drugs than alcohol.

I agree entirely that we need an attitude change to alcohol, and changing the price is not going to do that really. What did help was changing the licensing laws, making alcohol more available has, in my opinion, curtailed binge drinking/fast drinking. It is another difference with the rest of Europe, there it is easy enough to buy a drink in a bar at 2am sitin peace and have a chat, when I was younger the only place to get a drink after 11 was a club, and then you had to dance so needed a few drinks for dutch courage, but the music was so loud you couldn't really chat so you just stood around in silence drinking til you felt like dancing.

[Captain...]

It was only 3 years ago, me and the wife were so skint, we couldn't afford to go out. We like to have a drink, and the only thing we could afford was cheap cider - we would have a bottle over the weekend maybe! Now we have a bit more money, we each have a couple of beers a night, but hardly ever go out - this equates to 30 cans per week, all bought at special offers! 30 cans per week sounds a lot but is still within the recommended units per day! Maybe we should cut down a bit, but it's my choice and I do not want the government falsely inflating prices to effect my choice

But it is not about you, it is not really about the general public, it is about regulating the supermarkets and ensuring that they don't use alcohol as a marketing tool, that is irresponsible and dangerous.

What this minimum pricing will do though, is see a lot of drinks reduced to the minimum, so the overall effect on the casual drinker will be negligible whereas the binge drinker/alcoholic wil find it more expensive to get pissed by increasing the price of the really strong stuff.

Unless of course you are talking about 30 cans of special brew.

[Filbert_Ross]

just got 72 bottles of Stella for £30 from Asda (£10 for 24) and 36 cans of Stella for £22 from Sainsburys.

Do one Cameron.

[Rincewind]

This is taken from the Christmas edition of DNO. Stats from other sources may differ.

• Three million adults have some form of alcohol dependency
  
• 1.72 million Cannabis users.
  
• 360,000 dependent class A drug users (cocaine and heroine)
  
• Alcohol related deaths and diseases have doubled in 25 years
  
• Drug related deaths have risen exponentially - a hundredfold since 1968.
  

[davieG]

The government has shelved plans to introduce a minimum price for a unit of alcohol in England and Wales.

Minister Jeremy Browne said the policy would remain "under consideration" but said there were fears the change would hit responsible drinkers.

A ban on multi-buy sales has also been rejected but sales will not be allowed below the cost of alcohol duty and VAT.

Labour said the government had done a U-turn on a flagship policy which both the PM and home secretary had backed.

Mr Browne said problem drinking turned towns and cities into effective "no-go areas" for many people, was seen as instrumental in nearly half of violent attacks in 2011-12 and cost the taxpayer £21bn a year in crime and health issues.

But he said while minimum alcohol pricing was still "under consideration" the government had decided it "will not be taken forward at this time".

There was not enough "concrete evidence" it could reduce the harmful effects of problem drinking without hurting those who drank responsibly.

"We are not in the business of making laws that do not work," he said.

He said 34% of those who responded backed a 45p minimum unit price - but 56% had disagreed: "We consulted on it and we heard what people say."

[Manwell Pablo]

 

The government has shelved plans to introduce a minimum price for a unit of alcohol in England and Wales.

Minister Jeremy Browne said the policy would remain "under consideration" but said there were fears the change would hit responsible drinkers.

A ban on multi-buy sales has also been rejected but sales will not be allowed below the cost of alcohol duty and VAT.

Labour said the government had done a U-turn on a flagship policy which both the PM and home secretary had backed.

Mr Browne said problem drinking turned towns and cities into effective "no-go areas" for many people, was seen as instrumental in nearly half of violent attacks in 2011-12 and cost the taxpayer £21bn a year in crime and health issues.

But he said while minimum alcohol pricing was still "under consideration" the government had decided it "will not be taken forward at this time".

There was not enough "concrete evidence" it could reduce the harmful effects of problem drinking without hurting those who drank responsibly.

"We are not in the business of making laws that do not work," he said.

He said 34% of those who responded backed a 45p minimum unit price - but 56% had disagreed: "We consulted on it and we heard what people say."

 

 

 

Who pays less than 45p per unit anyway, what are people drinking these days battery acid?

[Guest MattP]

Who pays less than 45p per unit anyway, what are people drinking these days battery acid?

 

Exactly what I thought, surely even a Scotsman wouldn't buy something alcoholic that cheap?

 

Couldn't it making any difference.

[Jordan]

This, completely. Conversely, the yanks have such draconian laws that my 55 year old dad has to show ID to buy whatever passes for beer out there. They also have the highest level of alcoholism in the world. Whose lead should we follow DC...?

This is a patently false statement. Alcohol consumption rates and the prevalence of alcoholism in the US are some of the lowest among highly-developed countries, according to the WHO. I'm also nearly certain that binge drinking among youths here--where the minimum legal age to purchase alcohol is 21--is much lower than in the UK.

Countries like Denmark have instituted price controls and have made it harder for young persons to purchase alcohol, and they've seen their alcohol consumption rates decrease over the past few years. Meanwhile, in the Baltic countries, alcohol consumption, alcoholism, and alcohol-related deaths spiked when the price of alcohol (especially beer) became more affordable as their governments cut taxes.

[purpleronnie]

•  

  This is a patently false statement. Alcohol consumption rates and the prevalence of alcoholism in the US are some of the lowest among highly-developed countries, according to the WHO. I'm also nearly certain that binge drinking among youths here--where the minimum legal age to purchase alcohol is 21--is much lower than in the UK.

  Countries like Denmark have instituted price controls and have made it harder for young persons to purchase alcohol, and they've seen their alcohol consumption rates decrease over the past few years. Meanwhile, in the Baltic countries, alcohol consumption, alcoholism, and alcohol-related deaths spiked when the price of alcohol (especially beer) became more affordable as their governments cut taxes.

   

  Probably true every yank I met can barely handle a couple of pints of the weak cat piss they call beer over there.

[Jordan]

• Probably true every yank I met can barely handle a couple of pints of the weak cat piss they call beer over there.

Obvious trolling aside, on your point about weak beer: there is a lot more "light" beer in the US. The top-selling beer in the US isn't even Budweiser; it's Bud Light.

While cultural differences and legal differences explain a great deal on why the British drink more than their counterparts across the Atlantic, it's worth noting that (if I'm interpreting the stats correctlt) in the US, women are more likely to drink and be alcoholics than the UK. In the US, beer and booze companies are engaged in what one of my friends calls "the endless quest to get women drunk." Products like light beer, "hard" iced teas and lemonade, flavored spirits, and what we'd call a "malt beverage" but you'd call an "alcopop" are all marketed heavily here.

[Guest MattP]

 

•  

   

  Probably true every yank I met can barely handle a couple of pints of the weak cat piss they call beer over there.

 

 

Was about to say the same, it's fcuking embarassing when you go to Vegas and see them falling over after 8-10 weak as piss pints.

[purpleronnie]

Was about to say the same, it's fcuking embarassing when you go to Vegas and see them falling over after 8-10 weak as piss pints.

 They wouldn't last a couple of hours on the piss in England.

[Guest MattP]

 They wouldn't last a couple of hours on the piss in England.

 

Nope, see that in London.

 

Canadians can usually hack it, they are a bit better in the South as well but anyone from California or the East Coast I've met has the capacity of a woman.

[Jordan]

I would say the last few posts go some way to explaining why binge drinking in the UK is a problem.