PM backing alcohol minimum pricing..

[purpleronnie]

I would say the last few posts go some way to explaining why binge drinking in the UK is a problem.

Handling your beer is different to binge drinking.

[Guest MattP]

I would say the last few posts go some way to explaining why binge drinking in the UK is a problem.

 

Bit of a difference between the two.

 

I go out and just have 10-12 pints sometimes without binging. Holding your beer is a different matter.

[Jordan]

Bit of a difference between the two.

I go out and just have 10-12 pints sometimes without binging. Holding your beer is a different matter.

When you drink 10-12 pints of beer, "binging" is precisely what you're doing.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2607328/#

I go on long drinking sessions myself. I love beer. Hell, I even brew my own. But instead of rationalizing by playing semantics, I know damn well that if I drink 10+ pints in a day, I'm drinking a lot of alcohol.

Drinking 10-12 pints is still horrible for one's health, regardless of how well one can "hold his beer."

[purpleronnie]

When you drink 10-12 pints of beer, "binging" is precisely what you're doing.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2607328/#

I go on long drinking sessions myself. I love beer. Hell, I even brew my own. But instead of rationalizing by playing semantics, I know damn well that if I drink 10+ pints in a day, I'm drinking a lot of alcohol.

Drinking 10-12 pints is still horrible for one's health, regardless of how well one can "hold his beer."

so you agree yanks cant handle their beer?

[Guest MattP]

When you drink 10-12 pints of beer, "binging" is precisely what you're doing.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2607328/#

I go on long drinking sessions myself. I love beer. Hell, I even brew my own. But instead of rationalizing by playing semantics, I know damn well that if I drink 10+ pints in a day, I'm drinking a lot of alcohol.

Drinking 10-12 pints is still horrible for one's health, regardless of how well one can "hold his beer."

 

Nonsense, my Grandad is 85 and sunk 40 pints a day for 25 years when he worked in the brewerys. They all reached retirement comfortably and they drove home at night.

 

Don't believe all this health rubbish the doctors give you, always be very wary about anything where people are trying to stop you enjoying yourself.

 

Look at the Russians, they live until 60 odd and they replace what beer we drink with Vodka.

[Jordan]

so you agree yanks cant handle their beer?

[Jordan]

Nonsense, my Grandad is 85 and sunk 40 pints a day for 25 years when he worked in the brewerys. They all reached retirement comfortably and they drove home at night.

Don't believe all this health rubbish the doctors give you, always be very wary about anything where people are trying to stop you enjoying yourself.

Look at the Russians, they live until 60 odd and they replace what beer we drink with Vodka.

Russia is a poor example to use if you want to back up your point. Russia, which has one of the highest alcohol-consumption rates in the world, also has either the highest or one of highest alcohol-related disability-adjusted life year rate in the world. In other words, Russians are dying due to alcohol at a higher rate than people of any other country (or every other country besides maybe a small few). And "60-odd years" would be a woeful life expectancy for a developed country in 2013. To be fair, there are a lot of other things (murder, HIV, relatively worse access to quality health care than Western Europe etc.) that are causing deaths in Russia besides alcohol. But Russia's life expectancy is similar to Iraq's.

Everybody knows someone that has had a long, legendary career of drinking like a boss. But when you use a larger sample size, binge drinking becomes bad in so many regards.

I would agree with you that one ought to be wary of politicians exploiting binge drinking to benefit their own agendas. However, I would trust the massive amount of peer-reviewed medical studies that show the negative effects of binge drinking and heavy drinking (although not necessarily moderate drinking, which can be shown to have some long-term benefits).

[sphericalfox]

Nonsense, my Grandad is 85 and sunk 40 pints a day for 25 years when he worked in the brewerys. They all reached retirement comfortably and they drove home at night.

 

Don't believe all this health rubbish the doctors give you, always be very wary about anything where people are trying to stop you enjoying yourself.

 

Look at the Russians, they live until 60 odd and they replace what beer we drink with Vodka.

Forty pints of beer for 25 years and he's still alive?

 

Get that man a medal, seriously must have a bionic liver!

[Charl91]

Who pays less than 45p per unit anyway, what are people drinking these days battery acid?

 

People who buy crates of alcohol on special offer, for BBQ's or the like. It's not particularly rare.

 

For example, you can often get a box 20 cans of Strongbow on special offer for £10. At 45p per unit, that same box would now cost £19.50. The same thing will apply to most cans of larger etc. that you get on special offer.

 

Just because you buy a crate of alcohol, it doesn't mean you're going to drink them all in one night by yourself.

[Guest MattP]

Forty pints of beer for 25 years and he's still alive?

 

Get that man a medal, seriously must have a bionic liver!

 

He claims, seems believable as well. Think a lot of teh boys from the breweries were like that.

 

He did give up at about 65 but he's carried on, smoked as well from 14 to 70 odd, no idea what his body inside must look like

[sphericalfox]

He claims, seems believable as well. Think a lot of teh boys from the breweries were like that.

 

He did give up at about 65 but he's carried on, smoked as well from 14 to 70 odd, no idea what his body inside must look like

 

Seems believable...? If you tried drinking 40 pints 7 days in a row you'd be dead never mind every day for 25 years 

[Guest MattP]

Its possible.

3% some bitter. There's a fella called skinny Mick who drinks in the nags down here, he does 25-30 pints of John Smiths 6 nights a week. Outrageous to watch. Been doing that for a good ten years.

Can't be any worse than the 3 bottles of whatever Gazza is doing everyday.

[Zingari]

Its possible.

3% some bitter. There's a fella called skinny Mick who drinks in the nags down here, he does 25-30 pints of John Smiths 6 nights a week. Outrageous to watch. Been doing that for a good ten years.

Can't be any worse than the 3 bottles of whatever Gazza is doing everyday.

blimey that would cost about £5-600 a week 

he must be on benefits , no working bloke could afford that 

[Guest MattP]

blimey that would cost about £5-600 a week

he must be on benefits , no working bloke could afford that

We worked it out at around 2,500 a month on booze.

Sold his Dads company, drinks away the profits!

[Guest ttfn]

He claims, seems believable as well. Think a lot of teh boys from the breweries were like that.

He did give up at about 65 but he's carried on, smoked as well from 14 to 70 odd, no idea what his body inside must look like

Nah bullshit.

20, maybe. Just maybe.

[Manwell Pablo]

As Matt says it's well documented Gazza drinks 3 bottles of Whiskey a day on and off and is approaching 50, the bloke went on tour and drank so much he scared Iron Maiden. That's without factoring the Coke which is even worse for you, some people can just hack it better than others, . It's possible to drink 100 units a day and survive for years, 40 3% pints in comparison isn't even half of that. Drinking doesn't always ruin your liver it depends on the person, it's a funny organ. It's possible to put far too much through it for decades and come out without a scratch on it. It's actually much more likely to nail your nervous system completely once is gets to that stage of drinking but as long as you stay pissed you'll be safe from that as well  .

 

There's a bloke down the road from me, must be nearly 70, the Dr's are just done with him and told him never to sober up, and he loves his life

 

That said it is possible to find examples of men in their 30's who regularly drink around 50 units a week dying of acute hepatitis as a result of heavy week long stag do.

 

It's like everything, some get lucky, others don't. I certainly wouldn't believe Dr's claims that anyone drinking the 35-60 Units a week to be classed as a heavy drinker is doomed

 

EDIT: And on the subject of Yanks drinking, I agree their useless, worst thing about it is they thing they can drink because than can drink 5 3.2% Buds.

[Rincewind]

I know a 'ticker' who drinks 10 plus a day. Lamby should meet him as it could be him in 30 years. I do not envy his lifestyle. He struggles to walk 20 yards and last time I saw him he had started to use a stick. He lives with his Mother she is elderly though. I don't know how he survives. His liver must be in a right state. He says he doesn't care. I don't think he expects to live to old age as his father died youngish, but he lives for the beer and finding new ones. Only problem I have with this thought is often the pint is gone in five minutes. Doesn't even touch the sides. He can drink three to mine one pint.

[Guest MattP]

Nah bullshit.

20, maybe. Just maybe.

 

I know numerous geezers who do far more than 20 a day, I comfortably exceed that per day on a two week holiday.

As Matt says it's well documented Gazza drinks 3 bottles of Whiskey a day on and off and is approaching 50, the bloke went on tour and drank so much he scared Iron Maiden. That's without factoring the Coke which is even worse for you, some people can just hack it better than others, . It's possible to drink 100 units a day and survive for years, 40 3% pints in comparison isn't even half of that. Drinking doesn't always ruin your liver it depends on the person, it's a funny organ. It's possible to put far too much through it for decades and come out without a scratch on it. It's actually much more likely to nail your nervous system completely once is gets to that stage of drinking but as long as you stay pissed you'll be safe from that as well  .

 

There's a bloke down the road from me, must be nearly 70, the Dr's are just done with him and told him never to sober up, and he loves his life

 

That said it is possible to find examples of men in their 30's who regularly drink around 50 units a week dying of acute hepatitis as a result of heavy week long stag do.

 

It's like everything, some get lucky, others don't. I certainly wouldn't believe Dr's claims that anyone drinking the 35-60 Units a week to be classed as a heavy drinker is doomed

 

EDIT: And on the subject of Yanks drinking, I agree their useless, worst thing about it is they thing they can drink because than can drink 5 3.2% Buds.

 

Spot on.

[davieG]

Five European wine-producing nations are trying to block Scotland's plans for minimum alcohol pricing.

France, Spain, Italy, Portugal and Bulgaria have said the policy is illegal, unfair and ineffective and could have a devastating impact on the wine and spirits industry.

They argue that it breaches European free trade law by discriminating against imported alcohol products.

The Scottish government insisted minimum pricing was "perfectly legal".

The European Commission (EC) is currently considering the Scottish government's request to be granted an exemption from trade regulations to enact the minimum price law which was approved by the Scottish Parliament last year.

Of the 12 countries which have written to the Commission to express their views on the matter, only Ireland explicitly supported minimum pricing.

Copies of four legal opinions lodged with the EC, along with comments from seven other EU member states, were released to the BBC after a request under open government rules.

Italy refused permission for its opinion to be made public but the BBC has obtained it from another source.

Under European law, countries are allowed to restrict imports on public health grounds but only if doing so does not constitute a "means of arbitrary discrimination or a disguised restriction on trade between member states".

In practice a government which wants to introduce such a restriction must prove that the policy is absolutely necessary and that there is no, less-restrictive, alternative.

The legality of the Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) (Scotland) Act, which was passed by the Scottish Parliament in May 2012, is already being challenged in court by the Scotch Whisky Association (SWA) and two other trade bodies, spiritsEUROPE and the Comité Européen des Entreprises Vins, which represent European spirits and wine producers.

On 3 May, the SWA lost the first round of the legal battle when the Court of Session in Edinburgh ruled that the minimum pricing law, which concerns alcohol sold in supermarkets and shops, was legal.

But the SWA is now appealing against that decision, and Scottish government ministers have decided to wait for the outcome of that process before enacting the policy.

It could end up being considered by the Supreme Court in London and even the European Court of Justice in Luxembourg.

An SWA spokeswoman said the policy would damage its trade and damage overseas producers who rely on importing to Scotland and the UK.

She added: "The Scottish Court of Session failed to give any consideration to the effect of minimum unit pricing on producers in other European Union member states."

The association said it would continue to oppose the measure through the courts.

'Targeted' impact

A senior Scottish government source said it was likely to be at least another 12 months before a minimum price could actually be applied.

Continue reading the main story “Start Quote

The problem drink is cheap booze, cheap vodka, cheap cider”

Alex NeilScottish Health Secretary

If it is eventually brought in, the price per unit of alcohol in Scotland is to be set at 50p, meaning a bottle of wine with an alcoholic strength of 12.5% would cost at least £4.69.

Ministers insist the measure is proportionate and necessary to tackle an alcohol abuse problem which puts a strain on police, courts, hospitals and families, costing Scotland an estimated £3.6bn each year.

Scottish Health Secretary Alex Neil pointed out that the only European court to consider the issue so far had approved minimum pricing.

He said: "The Court of Session in the dispute between the Scottish government and the Scotch Whisky Association resoundingly ruled in our favour.

"It's perfectly legal within European rules to introduce minimum unit pricing."

Mr Neil insisted that, unlike taxation, minimum pricing targeted "problem drink" and "problem drinkers", adding: "The problem drink is cheap booze, cheap vodka, cheap cider... and that's where the impact of minimum unit pricing will be.

"It won't be on deluxe whisky or a good wine from France."

Consumption 'down'

But Mr Neil has a tough job persuading some EU member states.

In its legal opinion, Portugal claimed that minimum pricing would have "a dramatic impact" on its export market to the UK "causing grave consequences to Portuguese companies and the sector in general".

Lisbon said the policy was "clearly discriminatory" because continental European wine-producers have lower production costs and lower prices than British manufacturers.

"The effect of the minimum price is, in fact, to protect the domestic wine market and national producers against the competition of imported wines," said its legal opinion, adding that this "sets a dangerous precedent" which "may lead to the weakening of the EU".

It went on to claim that "there is nothing to indicate that (minimum pricing) would result in decreased alcohol consumption" and "recent statistics show that inappropriate consumption is decreasing in Scotland".

France said the UK was its biggest foreign market for wine, accounting for 17% of French wine exports, worth 1.2bn euros annually, and the "risk of distortion" from the Scottish bill meant the sector "could suffer serious losses".

It pointed out that "the average price of a bottle of wine produced in the United Kingdom is higher than the average price of imported wine" and said that minimum pricing was "incompatible" with EU law as it "closes the competitiveness gap, discourages efforts at market entry and... creates a distortion of competition".

'Not justified'

Paris also claimed that the Scottish government's objectives could "be attained by way of other measures which are less restrictive on trade", for example "a prevention campaign or taxation".

If minimum pricing went ahead, it argued, "the effect would be disastrous on the balance of European trade".

Bulgaria said that the policy would "create many obstacles to trade for Bulgarian wine and spirit producers".

It added: "The products that will be particularly affected are those in the lowest price bracket, into which Bulgarian wines fall."

Spain agreed that the measure "may be detrimental to the marketing of imported products" and added that it "cannot be justified on the grounds of public interest".

Italy said that fixing a minimum price "would be inequitable and discriminatory" and "is absolutely not justified as a health protection measure which could take advantage of derogation from Community rules".

It added: "In view of the importance of the United Kingdom market for Italian wine products, great concern is caused by setting a minimum price."

Rome described the policy as representing "a serious interference in the economic activities of all operators involved in the food sector".

Therefore because of the "overall negative impact and the effect of distorting competition... Italy expresses its firm opposition" to the plans.

Ireland, which said it was preparing proposals to develop a similar policy, pledged its support, saying that alcohol misuse was doing enormous harm to Irish society and was "responsible for at least 88 deaths every month in 2008" including those of one in every four young men.

[ADK]

I'm not sure whether i'm for or against a minimum price really but those arguements by EU states are ridiculous.

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

I saw a Welshman I know, down 26 pints, plus a few scotches one night. He was as sober as a judge at the finish. I really was totally gob smacked.