Militant secularisation threat to religion, says Warsi

[Zingari]

I’ve just popped to the offy for 4 cans of lager and a bag of smokey bacon crisps for while I’m listening to the match and when the shop assistant rang it into the till it came up as £6 66 . I must admit it spooked me a bit after all this religious stuff .

[Asha]

You can have a 'secular' country, but there would still be politicians with religious beliefs. And if we're looking at the government, the main role of politicians is to represent the people. If a very high percentage of people are religious, then it makes sense that there will be a religious influence because a politician stating a myriad of anti-religious points on his manifesto wouldn't get into power.

In this country, there's definitely a dramatic decline in attendees of the Church. So is it time to completely secularise the government and cut all ties from the Church? Maybe.

But it would be crazy to believe a world without religion would be significantly more peaceful. Too many of our species are selfish, power-hungry bastards for that to probably ever happen. There'll always be something to fight over.

[Daggers]

When atheists and secularists

are flying airplanes into things, blowing themselves up, shooting doctors, bombing hospitals, smashing graveyards, or forming militias, then we'll come back and talk about them being 'militant'.

The separation of church and state should be absolute, and remain so.

Man invented God in his own image, intolerant, sexist, homophobic and violent.

Belief in a Christian/Muslim/whatever God is moronic and frankly falls under clinical insanity in my eyes. We should be downplaying religion in the modern age not encouraging it.

Fantastic responses, totally agree

[Rincewind]

There are some good Christians about.

http://rnistuk.blogspot.com/2012/02/jakeporter03-theist-behaving-badly.html

Unfortuanely this isn't one of them

[The Doctor]

You can have a 'secular' country, but there would still be politicians with religious beliefs. And if we're looking at the government, the main role of politicians is to represent the people. If a very high percentage of people are religious, then it makes sense that there will be a religious influence because a politician stating a myriad of anti-religious points on his manifesto wouldn't get into power.

In this country, there's definitely a dramatic decline in attendees of the Church. So is it time to completely secularise the government and cut all ties from the Church? Maybe.

But it would be crazy to believe a world without religion would be significantly more peaceful. Too many of our species are selfish, power-hungry bastards for that to probably ever happen. There'll always be something to fight over.

Well it would. We'd have less bullshit to blow each other to pieces about because we're not able to comprehend the futility of existence.

Anyway, everyone should be forced to take cocaine/smoke weed and all chill the fυck out, learn to accept other people and be more fυcking peaceful.

[Gold Coast Fox]

As a gay i'm disliked by all religions... unlucky christianity your stuck with me

[Daggers]

Well it would. We'd have less bullshit to blow each other to pieces about because we're not able to comprehend the futility of existence.

Anyway, everyone should be forced to take cocaine/smoke weed and all chill the fÏ…ck out, learn to accept other people and be more fÏ…cking peaceful.

I'm not sure you understand the effects of coke.

[Captain...]

Well it would. We'd have less bullshit to blow each other to pieces about because we're not able to comprehend the futility of existence.

We'd blow each other up just as much, just for different reasons, it is in our nature to fight, that is why we are top of the food chain.

Anyway, everyone should be forced to take cocaine/smoke weed and all chill the fυck out, learn to accept other people and be more fυcking peaceful.

I don't think forcing people to take cocaine would chill them out.

[Asha]

Well it would. We'd have less bullshit to blow each other to pieces about because we're not able to comprehend the futility of existence.

Well I think you're wrong

[The Doctor]

I'm not sure you understand the effects of coke.

yeah that is probably wrong, but at 2 in the morning I doubt I could really be arsed to be accurate with what drugs will be useful in getting people to chill the **** out.

[Captain...]

As a gay i'm disliked by all religions... unlucky christianity your stuck with me

Buddhists love you

[Raw Dykes]

That and by not believing in God you are committing a sin. But then depends on the God, but the Christian one and the Muslim one aren't that hot on non-believers.

The thing is, there's just as much evidence for the Christian god and the Muslim god as there is for one that rewards people who actually use their brain and think for themselves, and punishes those that are gullible enough to think that a bronze age book could contain information that is beyond our reach with today's advanced science.

[Captain...]

The thing is, there's just as much evidence for the Christian god and the Muslim god as there is for one that rewards people who actually use their brain and think for themselves, and punishes those that are gullible enough to think that a bronze age book could contain information that is beyond our reach with today's advanced science.

For sure, I can quite happily accept that there is some form of higher power than us, and that it can exert/has exerted some influence our existence, whether it is by creating the universe or by bringing life, whether by acident or design. But I cannot in all sound mind believe in anything that is peddled by the mainstream religions. I hvae dabbled with Buddhism and it is a religion I respect as it is founded on learning and discovery of the world around us of understanding the forces that hold the world together, even if in a spritual rather than scientific sense, I do think that to some extent some followers have taken things too far in pursuing their own agenda, but all in all it is the closest thing I have to a recognised belief.

[Raw Dykes]

BBC

Britain is under threat from a rising tide of "militant secularisation", a cabinet minister has warned.

Religion is being "sidelined, marginalised and downgraded in the public sphere", Conservative co-chairwoman Baroness Warsi wrote in an article for the Daily Telegraph.

The Muslim peer said Europe needed to become "more confident and more comfortable in its Christianity".

She will also highlight the issue in a speech at the Vatican on Wednesday.

"I will be arguing that to create a more just society, people need to feel stronger in their religious identities and more confident in their creeds," she wrote in the Telegraph.

"In practice this means individuals not diluting their faiths and nations not denying their religious heritages."

Baroness Warsi, who is Britain's first female Muslim cabinet minister, went on to write: "You cannot and should not extract these Christian foundations from the evolution of our nations any more than you can or should erase the spires from our landscapes."

'Totalitarian regimes'

She wrote that examples of a "militant secularisation" taking hold of society could be seen in a number of things - "when signs of religion cannot be displayed or worn in government buildings; when states won't fund faith schools; and where religion is sidelined, marginalised and downgraded in the public sphere".

She also compared the intolerance of religion with totalitarian regimes, which she said were "denying people the right to a religious identity because they were frightened of the concept of multiple identities".

Her comments come days after the High Court ruled that a Devon town council had acted unlawfully by allowing prayers to be said at meetings.

And, as BBC religious affairs correspondent Robert Pigott reports, the Church of England could soon lose its traditional role as the provider of the chief chaplain to the Prison Service.

The Ministry of Justice has confirmed it is "considering arrangements" for appointing a new Chaplain-General - but the job might not go to an Anglican.

Our correspondent says the move may be seen by some Anglicans as the latest sign of the reduced influence of the "established" Church of England in public affairs.

'Outdated and divisive'

On Baroness Warsi's article and speech, BBC political correspondent Louise Stewart said it was not the first time a senior Conservative had called for a revival of traditional Christian values.

"Last December, Prime Minister David Cameron said the UK was a Christian country and 'should not be afraid to say so'," she said.

The British Humanist Association (BHA) described Baroness Warsi's comments as "outdated, unwarranted and divisive".

"In an increasingly non-religious and, at the same time, diverse society, we need policies that will emphasise what we have in common as citizens rather than what divides us," said BHA chief executive Andrew Copson.

Baroness Warsi's two-day delegation of seven British ministers to the Holy See will include an audience with Pope Benedict XVI, who visited the UK in 2010.

This visit marks the 30th anniversary of the re-establishment of full diplomatic ties between Britain and the Vatican.

Meanwhile, new research suggests Britons who declare themselves Christian display low levels of belief and practice.

Almost three quarters of the 1,136 people polled by Ipsos Mori agreed that religion should not influence public policy, and 92% agreed the law should apply to everyone equally, regardless of their personal beliefs.

It also found that 61% of Christians agreed homosexuals should have the same legal rights in all aspects of their lives as heterosexuals.

And a further 62% were in favour of a woman's right to have an abortion within the legal time limit.

The survey was conducted for the Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science (UK), which describes itself as promoting "scientific education, rationalism and humanism".

Who the feck is she to tell people what to think and to call themselves? Actually, she's probably going to end up make a lot of non-believers who call themselves Christian either to start to actually think about their actual beliefs and start calling themselves atheists, or just stop calling themselves Christians just to spite her. If I was her, I'd just stay well clear of bringing this up, because although the stats say most people in Britain are Christian, the majority of them aren't any more Christian than Dawkins is or Hitchens was (r.i.p.).

I expect atheism scares her, maybe because she suspects religion is a load of old rubbish, but doesn't want to face dealing with realising all she's been brought up to believe is false. I bet she'd much rather live in a country full of Christians, because then she can be comforted by the thought that at least they're just as gullible as her, and they can help her gang up on free-thinking rational people to stop them forcing her to question her mental delusional fantasies.

I'll tell you what, Baroness Warsi, I'll become Christian the moment you present me with a shred of evidence that the god of the Bible, a bronze age book of desert myths that promotes slavery and contains such nuggets of advice as stoning unruly children to death and murdering people for working on Sundays, actually exists. Until then, I'll put that god, along with anything else supported by NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER in the same category as elves, pixies, Father Christmas, unicorns, the Loch Ness Monster, leprechauns, the tooth fairy, the Easter bunny, etc.

[Webbo]

Who the feck is she to tell people what to think and to call themselves? Actually, she's probably going to end up make a lot of non-believers who call themselves Christian either to start to actually think about their actual beliefs and start calling themselves atheists, or just stop calling themselves Christians just to spite her. If I was her, I'd just stay well clear of bringing this up, because although the stats say most people in Britain are Christian, the majority of them aren't any more Christian than Dawkins is or Hitchens was (r.i.p.).

I expect atheism scares her, maybe because she suspects religion is a load of old rubbish, but doesn't want to face dealing with realising all she's been brought up to believe is false. I bet she'd much rather live in a country full of Christians, because then she can be comforted by the thought that at least they're just as gullible as her, and they can help her gang up on free-thinking rational people to stop them forcing her to question her mental delusional fantasies.

I'll tell you what, Baroness Warsi, I'll become Christian the moment you present me with a shred of evidence that the god of the Bible, a bronze age book of desert myths that promotes slavery and contains such nuggets of advice as stoning unruly children to death and murdering people for working on Sundays, actually exists. Until then, I'll put that god, along with anything else supported by NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER in the same category as elves, pixies, Father Christmas, unicorns, the Loch Ness Monster, leprechauns, the tooth fairy, the Easter bunny, etc.

Calm down chap. Whatever happened to;

[davieG]

Religious education in schools is 'a priority' say MPs

MPs have set up a new group to safeguard the teaching of religious education to pupils in England.

The all party parliamentary group on RE wants the subject to be treated as a priority.

Last year 115 MPs signed a motion demanding a debate on including RE GCSE in the English Baccalaureate.

A government spokesperson welcomed the new group but said "the English Baccalaureate will not prevent schools offering RE GCSEs".

Stephen Lloyd MP who will chair the group said the group would provide a real insight into the value of RE.

"In today's world where our children can be open to an enormous amount of misleading information I believe it is absolutely essential they are taught about different cultures and religions by trained, experienced RE teachers, allowing children to make informed choices," he said.

Mr Lloyd, a Liberal Democrat, tabled last year's early day motion on RE after the government left it out of the English Baccalaureate award to teenagers who get five good grades in key named GCSEs.

The subjects in the award are English, maths, science, a modern foreign language and a humanities subject - either geography or history.

Supporters of RE want to see it included in the humanities category.

'Under fire'

The new group has the support of a number of faith groups and RE teaching associations.

John Keast, chair of The Religious Education Council of England and Wales, said: "Recently the RE community has felt under fire and this represents an important step to give the subject a strong profile amongst parliamentarians."

"The coalition government is making policy decisions about academies, the national curriculum, qualifications and even teacher training provision.

"Directly or indirectly, all these will challenge how RE is taught to young people", he added.

The spokeswoman at the Department for Education said: "RE remains a statutory part of the school curriculum for every student up to 18. It is rightly down to schools themselves to judge how it is taught."

"We have been clear that pupils should take the GCSEs that are right for them and that we look to teachers and parents to help pupils make the right choice", she added.