Toulouse killer dead

[breadandcheese]

Or he could be saying that to gain personal notoriety. I'm sure the facts will come out soon and it seems most likely that he was the murderer but I think there is still a significant doubt in many minds over here. He wasn't even the first guy that the French authorities pulled in for it.

Please tell me what evidence would satisfy you that he did it.

If you can't rely on his own testimony, or the fact that he's kitted up to the hilt with weapons, or that he rides the same moped as was used at the crime scene, which he tried to spray paint a different colour, or that emails from his brother threatened the first murder victim, what can you rely on as evidence that would satisfy you?

[Head Honcho]

Have you ever thought that what you're being told is actually............The Truth!

[21st Century Fox]

I followed this on the Guardian minute-by-minute all day yesterday, it seemed fairly apparent he wasn't going to be taken alive.

I'm not surprised that people are reading into it so much, as far as politicians go, Sarkozy isn't particularly trust worthy *cough* campaigning on Gaddafi hand outs.

[Guesty]

They did know he was alone (CNN said they had infra-red imagery) so that wasn't something they were considering. For one man in a confined space, the infiltration team can't have been much more than 20 people (and I think I'm being generous there) - so what are the 280+ remaining up to? Perimeter control, judging by the look of the street, should've been a job for 2 conveniently placed vans (to stop street access) and a team of 10 coppers. Let's add a generous 20 for the other side of the building which I couldn't see and given the high profile of the case you can understand that number being doubled to deal with the crowd of journos. I've used 80 men and already think I'm overdoing it a bit. I now have 220+ men to carry out surveillance and media control. That can't be considered reasonable use of resources can it?

Je sens un rat as they say...

I know what you're saying I agree 300 sounds a lot, but maybe they had extra police around Toulouse at checkpoints to make sure other people couldn't come and kill more people whilst they were fixated on this 1 bloke etc. They will want to sound as they are doing everything possible so will possibly include people in the 300 that were only loosely related. The 300 figure is probably more polictical.

[BoneDog]

For example, maybe they knew it was him after the soldiers and were watching him but lost him, then he killed the kids. That makes them look very bad. Sounds like a cock up from the start.

The thing that bothers me about the story is that if this guy was in Afghanistan committing terrorist acts then the authorities would have been all over him when he was back in France. His every conversation would have been listened to even when he's not on the phone. His every move would have been followed by professionals who don't lose people like in the movies. Surveillence is very high-tech and they don't need to tap phones and things anymore. They can sit in a car or another house and listen to you with devices that aren't even in your house. So if they were watching him as I've heard they were, then there is no way he could have planned and carried out these attacks unless being allowed to.

[Smudge]

The thing that bothers me about the story is that if this guy was in Afghanistan committing terrorist acts then the authorities would have been all over him when he was back in France. His every conversation would have been listened to even when he's not on the phone. His every move would have been followed by professionals who don't lose people like in the movies. Surveillence is very high-tech and they don't need to tap phones and things anymore. They can sit in a car or another house and listen to you with devices that aren't even in your house. So if they were watching him as I've heard they were, then there is no way he could have planned and carried out these attacks unless being allowed to.

Maybe he wasn't in the habit of talking to himself.

[marko]

The thing that bothers me about the story is that if this guy was in Afghanistan committing terrorist acts then the authorities would have been all over him when he was back in France. His every conversation would have been listened to even when he's not on the phone. His every move would have been followed by professionals who don't lose people like in the movies. Surveillence is very high-tech and they don't need to tap phones and things anymore. They can sit in a car or another house and listen to you with devices that aren't even in your house. So if they were watching him as I've heard they were, then there is no way he could have planned and carried out these attacks unless being allowed to.

Where did you hear all these cool stories???

[Guest]

If you say "arabs" as a collective noun then you have a point. If you say "the arab" meaning the person who did it who was an arab then no.

Or he could've said "the man" which wouldn't have aroused nationalistic or racist sentiment. Sarkozy is playing an elections game which is NOT good for the well-being of France.

[breadandcheese]

The thing that bothers me about the story is that if this guy was in Afghanistan committing terrorist acts then the authorities would have been all over him when he was back in France. His every conversation would have been listened to even when he's not on the phone. His every move would have been followed by professionals who don't lose people like in the movies. Surveillence is very high-tech and they don't need to tap phones and things anymore. They can sit in a car or another house and listen to you with devices that aren't even in your house. So if they were watching him as I've heard they were, then there is no way he could have planned and carried out these attacks unless being allowed to.

Yet at the same time, according to you, those shadowy Zionists can communicate with him, give him weapons, give him a video camera headset and instruct him to commit these acts without the French security services finding out?

[Guest]

Where did you hear all these cool stories???

He was apparently high on a "watch list" which is how they found him, after working there way down the list of likely suspects.

[NeilyBoy]

Where did you hear all these cool stories???

Read the news surrounding this story then get back to us. Thanks.

[Webbo]

Or he could've said "the man" which wouldn't have aroused nationalistic or racist sentiment. Sarkozy is playing an elections game which is NOT good for the well-being of France.

His name was Mohammed Merah and he claimed to be a member/supporter of Al Qeda. Do you think ordinary members of the public wouldn't have been able to piece it together?

[BoneDog]

Where did you hear all these cool stories???

Have you not heard the same?

[marko]

Read the news surrounding this story then get back to us. Thanks.

I have, thanks. I still can't see anything about them using some uber hearing device that can hear through houses.

But if you'd care to point them out to me i'll hold my hands up.

[breadandcheese]

He was apparently high on a "watch list" which is how they found him, after working there way down the list of likely suspects.

I'm not sure why you're believing in to all this conspiracy rubbish.

Richard Reid, the shoe bomber went to Afghanistan, came back to the UK and tried to detonate a bomb on a plane over the Atlantic. He was on a watchlist, but was still able to attempt his act of mass murder. I would imagine that it all depends how high the rate of perceived risk as to the level of note that the security services take of you.

Clearly, this man was not designated such a risk. That is a mistake that will have to be looked at, but it doesn't change the fact that this man admitted to the murders, was well armed with different calibre guns, had the moped used in the attack and had various other links to the crimes. In a court of law, the only defence would be temporary insanity.

[Guest]

His name was Mohammed Merah and he claimed to be a member/supporter of Al Qeda. Do you think ordinary members of the public wouldn't have been able to piece it together?

Of course I do. I'm not questioning the facts. I'm questioning the naivete of you thinking this wasn't a political move by Sarkozy and originally I was simply saying that you seem to be misarguing Steven's comment.

He was an arab, he had links with al qadr, he was seemingly a very bad man. The link between Arab and bad man is the problem especially when taken in the context of the anti-foreigner laws that Sarkozy has enacted in the very recent past.

There are a lot of very "good" students being sent back to their countries part way through their courses thanks to these laws and many of them are NOT arabs.

[NeilyBoy]

I have, thanks. I still can't see anything about them using some uber hearing device that can hear through houses.

But if you'd care to point them out to me i'll hold my hands up.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2012/mar/21/france-shooting-toulouse-police-suspects-jewish-school-raid

"The French government has confirmed that Merah had been under surveillance by the security services"

Now wave those hands in the air like you just don't care!

[BoneDog]

Yet at the same time, according to you, those shadowy Zionists can communicate with him, give him weapons, give him a video camera headset and instruct him to commit these acts without the French security services finding out?

No, if it was him, I'm saying that the authorities would have known, not that they wouldn't have known. I think we all know, whether we admit it or not, that a percentage of all security forces are corrupt and/or double agents and don't have the publics best interests at heart. There are too many cases proving intelligence agency people getting up to no good to deny this.

And I think that most people know that France is highly influenced (some might say controlled) by zionist Jews in it's leadership, military/security ranks and media. Isn't Sarkozy one, not sure?

Do you use the term 'shadowy zionist' to try and make out that they are some kind of fairytale? Alot of people know of their power and influence over most governments in the world up to this day (going back over 100 years), and of their part in some major world events from the Russian Revolution to WW2 so I think the days of pretending their power is some flight of the imagination are long gone.

[NeilyBoy]

Oh and: http://news.lalate.com/2012/03/21/mohammed-merah-toulouse-shooting-suspect-identified-by-french-police/

I hope your arms aren't getting tired Marko.

[Guest]

I'm not sure why you're believing in to all this conspiracy rubbish.

Richard Reid, the shoe bomber went to Afghanistan, came back to the UK and tried to detonate a bomb on a plane over the Atlantic. He was on a watchlist, but was still able to attempt his act of mass murder. I would imagine that it all depends how high the rate of perceived risk as to the level of note that the security services take of you.

Clearly, this man was not designated such a risk. That is a mistake that will have to be looked at, but it doesn't change the fact that this man admitted to the murders, was well armed with different calibre guns, had the moped used in the attack and had various other links to the crimes. In a court of law, the only defence would be temporary insanity.

I'm not sure why you are misquoting me.

I have never said that I believe anything. I stated that the initial eye-witness reports and the later killed suspect were confusing to me. I also stated that I hadn't followed the story closely. I can assure you that I'll make my own mind up and not be swayed by your "uninformed" opinion nor that of el empty or anyone else on here.

Is my state of confusion - through not having assimulated enough information yet - understandable to you know or are you going to continue to class me as a weak minded fool?

I believe I have even stated that the man shot this morning was most probably the killer.

The relevance of Richard reid to my confusion has passed well over my head and the fact that someone admits to murders not always being the murderer (do I need to quote examples?) has seemingly also passed well over yours.

I presume you have some reasonable knowledge of the French in the South West, but in case you don't I can tell you that there are thousands and thousands of houses with an array of weapons (mostly shotguns and rifles - but not only) in the area. I have been in many and whilst this is shocking and surprising for an englishman it is quite normal in France.

[BoneDog]

I have, thanks. I still can't see anything about them using some uber hearing device that can hear through houses.

But if you'd care to point them out to me i'll hold my hands up.

****ing hell man, sort yoursen out. Do you still think they use phone taps and plant a bug under your lampshade? It's not the 70's you know. They say he was being watched (not for robbing milk floats, but for terrorism in Afghanistan) so that means the intelligence agencies would have been using up to date listening toys that have been around since before the start of this century!

[marko]

http://www.guardian....ish-school-raid

"The French government has confirmed that Merah had been under surveillance by the security services"

Now wave those hands in the air like you just don't care!

Yeah, thanks. You obviously didn't read my post properly.

Under surveillance can mean many things. Where is their admission that they used this device that can hear through houses???

[Guest]

Having just watched Ebba Kalondo's (France 24) report on the guy telephoning her before the siege I am pretty certain that the guy was involved in the killings. It's still not clear that he worked alone, in fact he said that other attacks are planned for Paris and Marseille. One of his stated reasons for the attacks " France’s decision to ban women from wearing the full Islamic veil " seems tenuous but sadly credible. A sad day for the many muslims and non-white people of France (many of them French Citizens).

[BoneDog]

Under surveillance can mean many things. Where is their admission that they used this device that can hear through houses???

Ah, so you think they probably just monitored his emails or asked the local shopkeeper to call them if he saw anything suspicious.

The device is just a regular listening device that I'm sure all police forces have, let alone intelligence agencies. I know normal-ish people who have a good listening device so God knows what the intelligence services use.

Got to go and mow someones garden and see a man about a dog so I might be back later.

Edit : Just seen FIF's last post and I have a few things to say about the phone call but haven't got time and don't really want to bog the thread down in more conjecture.

[breadandcheese]

I'm not sure why you are misquoting me.

I have never said that I believe anything. I stated that the initial eye-witness reports and the later killed suspect were confusing to me. I also stated that I hadn't followed the story closely. I can assure you that I'll make my own mind up and not be swayed by your "uninformed" opinion nor that of el empty or anyone else on here.

Is my state of confusion - through not having assimulated enough information yet - understandable to you know or are you going to continue to class me as a weak minded fool?

I believe I have even stated that the man shot this morning was most probably the killer.

The relevance of Richard reid to my confusion has passed well over my head and the fact that someone admits to murders not always being the murderer (do I need to quote examples?) has seemingly also passed well over yours.

I presume you have some reasonable knowledge of the French in the South West, but in case you don't I can tell you that there are thousands and thousands of houses with an array of weapons (mostly shotguns and rifles - but not only) in the area. I have been in many and whilst this is shocking and surprising for an englishman it is quite normal in France.

Then I misunderstood your post, probably because it followed after El Empty's and I'm lumping your posts in with his, for that I apologise.

Whilst I sympathise that Sarkozy may well be electioneering, I took your questioning to be one of sowing the seeds of a conspiracy theory which annoy the hell out of me. I obviously read your questioning wrong.