Raw Dykes Posted 8 April 2012 Posted 8 April 2012 I'm pretty sure that I don't. Just because there were pagan festivals of midwinter and the such doesn't make Christmas a pagan festival. what it means is that most people stopped celebrating the pagan midwinter/and others festival and started celebrating a new festival called Christmas which they believed celebrated the birth of christ - as many of the previous pagan followers were transformed into the new Christian religion following. Saying that Christmas and Easter are pagan festivals is so moronic that I can't imagine anyone will be stupid enough to argue the fact. It's like suggesting that when your grandmother died she became your newly born daughter/son. Except that this second concept I've suggested is materially more possible due to the finite world we leave in and the never ending transformation of energy into different forms. This is a strawman. I never said Christmas and Easter were not Christian festivals! You took issue with WTF BBQ pointing out that they both have Pagan origins, as though that was absurd, when it isn't. The Bible says it's forbidden to take a tree into your house and decorate it, yet Christians disobey this. That's because it's a Pagan tradition that's been too tricky to do away with. No-one knows when Jesus was supposed to have been born, but by the early to mid 4th century it was said to have been December 25th so it would coincide with the Pagan winter solstice. There's a very similar story behind Easter. You haven't made an entirely new thing by tacking a new name onto something old. You could change the name of the club to Leicester Fosse and re-brand all the merchandise and everything. You could even re-write the club's history books if you like. It still wouldn't make it a brand new club, would it?
21st Century Fox Posted 8 April 2012 Posted 8 April 2012 I used to have a friend who was a Pagan. He didn't own a telly and him and his family used to spend their evenings looking in woods for sticks that were shaped like animals. Thoroughly nice bloke.
Guest Posted 8 April 2012 Posted 8 April 2012 No it wasn't the point, but since we're now trolling the OP... clearly, historically Easter was called EASTRE and was a pagan celebration of the spring (I assume you actually read the passage). It became "corrupted" to Easter some time after the Christian attempts to convert pagans into Christianity because it occurred around the same time as Christian celebrations of the resurrection. It's a coincidence that the two "festivals" happened at roughly the same time in the Christian calendar, not proof of it being ORIGINALLY a Christian festival. That's not clear at all. Would you like to give the place this evidence of Pagan festival names came from. From a linguistic point of view the word "eastre" for a pagan culture is very unlikely. It seems more likely to be a construct made to "prove" a point by a linguistically unaware group of people denouncing a Christian festival. Having said that I'm in complete agreement with the fact that there were festivals before Easter which the Christians "consumed" for their festival. However this is irrelevant when the "Easter" that we are or aren't celebrating today is clearly a Christian festival surrounding the alleged death and re-birth of Christ. Thus the eating of eggs and the "happy Easter" salutation relate to the Christian festival and not some other pre-Christian festival.
Guest Posted 8 April 2012 Posted 8 April 2012 You took issue with WTF BBQ pointing out that they both have Pagan origins, I think he took issue with me but if we let that one go. i'm pointing out that Easter has Christian origins. Just because there was another/other festivals before it that were consumed by the Christian "Easter" is neither here nor there. People who celebrate "Easter" in England are celebrating a Christian festival.
I am Rod Hull Posted 8 April 2012 Posted 8 April 2012 I think he took issue with me but if we let that one go. i'm pointing out that Easter has Christian origins. Just because there was another/other festivals before it that were consumed by the Christian "Easter" is neither here nor there. People who celebrate "Easter" in England are celebrating a Christian festival. Never ever take me seriously . Now shut up and eat your caterpillar . (Easter is Pagan though)
Guest Posted 8 April 2012 Posted 8 April 2012 Never ever take me seriously . Now shut up and eat your caterpillar .
Raw Dykes Posted 8 April 2012 Posted 8 April 2012 That's not clear at all. Would you like to give the place this evidence of Pagan festival names came from. From a linguistic point of view the word "eastre" for a pagan culture is very unlikely. It seems more likely to be a construct made to "prove" a point by a linguistically unaware group of people denouncing a Christian festival. Having said that I'm in complete agreement with the fact that there were festivals before Easter which the Christians "consumed" for their festival. However this is irrelevant when the "Easter" that we are or aren't celebrating today is clearly a Christian festival surrounding the alleged death and re-birth of Christ. Thus the eating of eggs and the "happy Easter" salutation relate to the Christian festival and not some other pre-Christian festival. How on Earth does the eating of eggs relate to Christianity, and not some other pre-Christian festival? That's ridiculous. All the eggs, bunnies and roast lamb stuff at Easter has far more to do with the celebration of new life and fertility - the true origin of the festival we celebrate when we do because of Pagan religions.
21st Century Fox Posted 8 April 2012 Posted 8 April 2012 http://www.guardian....pagan-symbolism Easter is a pagan festival. If Easter isn't really about Jesus, then what is it about? Today, we see a secular culture celebrating the spring equinox, whilst religious culture celebrates the resurrection. However, early Christianity made a pragmatic acceptance of ancient pagan practises, most of which we enjoy today at Easter. No ones denying what's celebrated today is the 'Christian' easter.
Parafox Posted 8 April 2012 Posted 8 April 2012 That's not clear at all. Would you like to give the place this evidence of Pagan festival names came from. From a linguistic point of view the word "eastre" for a pagan culture is very unlikely. It seems more likely to be a construct made to "prove" a point by a linguistically unaware group of people denouncing a Christian festival. Having said that I'm in complete agreement with the fact that there were festivals before Easter which the Christians "consumed" for their festival. However this is irrelevant when the "Easter" that we are or aren't celebrating today is clearly a Christian festival surrounding the alleged death and re-birth of Christ. Thus the eating of eggs and the "happy Easter" salutation relate to the Christian festival and not some other pre-Christian festival. To take the second part first... I agree that we celebrate the resurrection at around the original date of it happening and is therefore a Christian celebration in that respect, however, the TERM easter is a pagan one and was originally, as I said before, a celebration of spring, and in pagan beliefs, marked the beginning of new life and fertility. On the first point... from the website religioustolerance.org... The name "Easter" originated with the names of an ancient Goddess and God. The Venerable Bede, (672-735 CE.) a Christian scholar, first asserted in his book De Ratione Temporum that Easter was named after Eostre (a.k.a. Eastre). She was the Great Mother Goddess of the Saxon people in Northern Europe. Similarly, the "Teutonic dawn goddess of fertility [was] known variously as Ostare, Ostara, Ostern, Eostra, Eostre, Eostur, Eastra, Eastur, Austron and Ausos." 1 Her name was derived from the ancient word for spring: "eastre." Seems pretty likely to be a name from a pagan culture to me.
AoWW Posted 8 April 2012 Posted 8 April 2012 And still nobody's randomly turned up on my doorstep with Easter Eggs for me.
Trav Le Bleu Posted 8 April 2012 Posted 8 April 2012 However tongue in cheek your last sentence was, why are people so quick to denounce the Christian god, yet wouldn't dream of doing it about another religions god. I've always wondered! No doubt we'll see the same kind of threads coming up at Ramadan and Diwali. The amount of bible basher bashing that goes on in here is really quite staggering. These people complain about people having god rammed down their throats (is it really?) and then go spouting their own beliefs to all and sundry day and night. The hypocrisy is bewildering. Everyone can believe what they like, so long as it's THIS! I have my own christian beliefs (and it would be a huge mistake for anyone to label me as "stupid" for doing so), but an internet forum is not the place to expound them. I respect other people's beliefs, Hindu, Sikh, Muslim, Agnostic, Aetheist and I certainly don't go out of my way to deliberately offend people who don't agree with my beliefs (except those stupid idiots who call for a manager's head any time we lose 2 in a row! ) Live and let live. There's enough hate in the world. And still nobody's randomly turned up on my doorstep with Easter Eggs for me. Nightguard killed the Easter bunny.
The Doctor Posted 8 April 2012 Posted 8 April 2012 No doubt we'll see the same kind of threads coming up at Ramadan and Diwali. The amount of bible basher bashing that goes on in here is really quite staggering. These people complain about people having god rammed down their throats (is it really?) and then go spouting their own beliefs to all and sundry day and night. The hypocrisy is bewildering. Everyone can believe what they like, so long as it's THIS! I have my own christian beliefs (and it would be a huge mistake for anyone to label me as "stupid" for doing so), but an internet forum is not the place to expound them. I respect other people's beliefs, Hindu, Sikh, Muslim, Agnostic, Aetheist and I certainly don't go out of my way to deliberately offend people who don't agree with my beliefs (except those stupid idiots who call for a manager's head any time we lose 2 in a row! ) Live and let live. There's enough hate in the world. Nightguard killed the Easter bunny. I think you'll find that was the pope. Or is Nightguard the pope?
Trav Le Bleu Posted 8 April 2012 Posted 8 April 2012 I think you'll find that was the pope. Or is Nightguard the pope? You think? Wow, that's gonna blow the whole caboodle!
Guest Posted 8 April 2012 Posted 8 April 2012 To take the second part first... I agree that we celebrate the resurrection at around the original date of it happening and is therefore a Christian celebration in that respect, however, the TERM easter is a pagan one and was originally, as I said before, a celebration of spring, and in pagan beliefs, marked the beginning of new life and fertility. On the first point... from the website religioustolerance.org... The name "Easter" originated with the names of an ancient Goddess and God. The Venerable Bede, (672-735 CE.) a Christian scholar, first asserted in his book De Ratione Temporum that Easter was named after Eostre (a.k.a. Eastre). She was the Great Mother Goddess of the Saxon people in Northern Europe. Similarly, the "Teutonic dawn goddess of fertility [was] known variously as Ostare, Ostara, Ostern, Eostra, Eostre, Eostur, Eastra, Eastur, Austron and Ausos." 1 Her name was derived from the ancient word for spring: "eastre." Seems pretty likely to be a name from a pagan culture to me. Bede is renowned as a great scholar but it must be remembered that he lived in a monastery from the age of 7 and didn't get out too much. He read a lot and therefore all of his writings are based on the records of others. He lived in the 7th century sometime after the purposed birth and death of christ - which he also wrote about as fact. so if we accept that he is correct about one thing I suppose we should accept that he is correct about the other. I rest my case. If you want to believe that the Easter we are celebrating is based on Pagan festivals so be it, I'll believe it's based on Christian beliefs. and I can leave it there (I think).
I am Rod Hull Posted 8 April 2012 Posted 8 April 2012 Bede is renowned as a great scholar but it must be remembered that he lived in a monastery from the age of 7 and didn't get out too much. He read a lot and therefore all of his writings are based on the records of others. He lived in the 7th century sometime after the purposed birth and death of christ - which he also wrote about as fact. so if we accept that he is correct about one thing I suppose we should accept that he is correct about the other. I rest my case. If you want to believe that the Easter we are celebrating is based on Pagan festivals so be it, I'll believe it's based on Christian beliefs. and I can leave it there (I think). Most venerable, FIF
Guest Posted 8 April 2012 Posted 8 April 2012 No doubt we'll see the same kind of threads coming up at Ramadan and Diwali. The amount of bible basher bashing that goes on in here is really quite staggering. These people complain about people having god rammed down their throats (is it really?) and then go spouting their own beliefs to all and sundry day and night. The hypocrisy is bewildering. Everyone can believe what they like, so long as it's THIS! I have my own christian beliefs (and it would be a huge mistake for anyone to label me as "stupid" for doing so), but an internet forum is not the place to expound them. I respect other people's beliefs, Hindu, Sikh, Muslim, Agnostic, Aetheist and I certainly don't go out of my way to deliberately offend people who don't agree with my beliefs (except those stupid idiots who call for a manager's head any time we lose 2 in a row! ) Live and let live. There's enough hate in the world. I think that's great. I believe in predeterminism and the interconnectedness of all things since the beginning of the universe. This doesn't rule out a God or Gods though it makes them pretty irrelevant. It does facilitate the acceptance of people believing in whatever they believe in, simply because the consequence of each action since the beginning of the universe is unchangeable and evident. Live and let live is a great philosophy. Most venerable, FIF Now THAT's more to my my liking.
Guest Posted 8 April 2012 Posted 8 April 2012 I've just spent the last few hours correcting Uni exam papers, to do that I find it easier to go downstairs to the dining table where I can spread out. My son's chocolates have been sat on the table and I've found myself absently eating them as I marked. now I'm feeling sick.
I am Rod Hull Posted 8 April 2012 Posted 8 April 2012 I think that's great. I believe in predeterminism and the interconnectedness of all things since the beginning of the universe. This doesn't rule out a God or Gods though it makes them pretty irrelevant. It does facilitate the acceptance of people believing in whatever they believe in, simply because the consequence of each action since the beginning of the universe is unchangeable and evident. Live and let live is a great philosophy. . So you don`t subscribe to the Chaos Theory then? Predetermination is nothing more than superstitious nonsense, surely?
Parafox Posted 8 April 2012 Posted 8 April 2012 Bede is renowned as a great scholar but it must be remembered that he lived in a monastery from the age of 7 and didn't get out too much. He read a lot and therefore all of his writings are based on the records of others. He lived in the 7th century sometime after the purposed birth and death of christ - which he also wrote about as fact. so if we accept that he is correct about one thing I suppose we should accept that he is correct about the other. I rest my case. If you want to believe that the Easter we are celebrating is based on Pagan festivals so be it, I'll believe it's based on Christian beliefs. and I can leave it there (I think). Sorry.. I know this is dragging on a bit but let me make my position clear(er). I am not denying that the celebration we have at this time of year is called Easter nor am I denying it's based on Christian beliefs. I am merely adding some substantive points to another post who was denounced for saying it was ORIGINALLY a festival for pagans before Christ was born and the WORD got merged or corrupted from eastre or oestre to Easter. It's still remains a Christian festival but was previously known by the same or similar name before the birth/death/ressurection of Christ and was a completely unconnected festival, obviously, as Christ hadn't been born at the time of paganism. I never said that the Easter we celebrate NOW was based on pagan beliefs
Guest Posted 8 April 2012 Posted 8 April 2012 So you don`t subscribe to the Chaos Theory then? Well , yes in so much as "chaos theory" fits into the law of universal causation. " Given the state of the whole universe,...every previous and subsequent event can theoretically be determined." Chaos is determinable if you can see the causation and effect , it's just that my mind isn't sufficiently competent to do that - well at least for me to understand .
Guest Posted 8 April 2012 Posted 8 April 2012 I am more than happy to accept that statement without any question or repudiation.
I am Rod Hull Posted 8 April 2012 Posted 8 April 2012 From how many Easter eggs did you get to this, in 73 posts...
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