Leicester_Numan Posted 4 June 2012 Posted 4 June 2012 I would have thought Leicester was on the Yorkist side anyway as King Richard stayed at the Blue Boar on his way to Bosworth, hence the Richard III pub and Blue Boar cafe on Highcross St
Zingari Posted 4 June 2012 Posted 4 June 2012 I would have thought Leicester was on the Yorkist side anyway as King Richard stayed at the Blue Boar on his way to Bosworth, hence the Richard III pub and Blue Boar cafe on Highcross St We hedged our bets in that one . We have a Tudor Road and a pub called the Tudor Rose at one time
Leicester_Numan Posted 4 June 2012 Posted 4 June 2012 We hedged our bets in that one . We have a Tudor Road and a pub called the Tudor Rose at one time Yes we did but we weren't on the Lancastrian side as you wouldn't spend the night in enemy territory would you? After Henry won it's just common sense to jump on the Tudor bandwagon. We may just have been totally neutral though.
Leicester_Numan Posted 4 June 2012 Posted 4 June 2012 Someone is going to have to check the history books and see who the Earl of Leicester declared his allegiance to. Makes sense for it to be the Yorkists
Finnegan Posted 4 June 2012 Posted 4 June 2012 Leicester was a Plantagenet seat and several Earls of Leicester leading up to the War of the Roses were also Lords in Lancaster. So I assume that answers the question.
Leicester_Numan Posted 4 June 2012 Posted 4 June 2012 Leicester was a Plantagenet seat and several Earls of Leicester leading up to the War of the Roses were also Lords in Lancaster. So I assume that answers the question. King Richard must have been a complete idiot then. Why would you spend the night in the territory of someone who'd declared for the Lancastrians? So, no, doesn't answer it really
Leicester_Numan Posted 4 June 2012 Posted 4 June 2012 Leicester was a Plantagenet seat and several Earls of Leicester leading up to the War of the Roses were also Lords in Lancaster. So I assume that answers the question. Got to stop hopping between websites and read things properly, only saw the Lancaster bit. If we were a Plantagenet seat we were Yorkists as Richard was the last one, another Leicester pub. Makes sense to me
stourbridgefox Posted 4 June 2012 Posted 4 June 2012 Richard the Third was from Oundle which is a small village in leicestershire out towards the borders of Northamptonshire and Cambridgeshire. As Henry Tudor camped in Wales to rally support on home territory, Richard rallied support in his home territory of Leicestershire. So the rose on the badge is a reference to the House of York. The symbol of Yorkshire and Leicestershire is the white rose of York. There is a statue of Richard the Third in Castle Gardens and it is surrounded by white roses. Richard the Third spent his last night before being killed at Bosworth in the castle which used to be where Castle Gardens now is. Not many places use the white rose as an image because Tudor propaganda rubbished the reputation of the late King Richard with a little help from William Shakespeare. The Tudor Rose is actually a combination of the white and red roses of York and Lancaster respectively. Does no-one know the story of the old woman's prophesy when Richard the Third rode across Bow Bridge to Bosworth? There have been two kings from Leicester and both ended up in the River Soar!
Webbo Posted 4 June 2012 Posted 4 June 2012 King Richard must have been a complete idiot then. Why would you spend the night in the territory of someone who'd declared for the Lancastrians? So, no, doesn't answer it really He had to meet Henry's army somewhere, you can't fight a war if you both stay in your own territory. Anyway it would only be the nobles who would care about whose territory it would be, the peasants would just keep their heads down and cheer whoever won.
stourbridgefox Posted 4 June 2012 Posted 4 June 2012 it looks more like a fried egg I've never thought about it but yes...yes it does!
Leicester_Numan Posted 5 June 2012 Posted 5 June 2012 He had to meet Henry's army somewhere, you can't fight a war if you both stay in your own territory. Anyway it would only be the nobles who would care about whose territory it would be, the peasants would just keep their heads down and cheer whoever won. Obviously, but you don't spend the night in an inn in enemy territory unless you want to be assassinated, you camp with your army
flowwolf Posted 5 June 2012 Posted 5 June 2012 Richard the Third was from Oundle which is a small village in leicestershire out towards the borders of Northamptonshire and Cambridgeshire. As Henry Tudor camped in Wales to rally support on home territory, Richard rallied support in his home territory of Leicestershire. So the rose on the badge is a reference to the House of York. The symbol of Yorkshire and Leicestershire is the white rose of York. There is a statue of Richard the Third in Castle Gardens and it is surrounded by white roses. Richard the Third spent his last night before being killed at Bosworth in the castle which used to be where Castle Gardens now is. Not many places use the white rose as an image because Tudor propaganda rubbished the reputation of the late King Richard with a little help from William Shakespeare. The Tudor Rose is actually a combination of the white and red roses of York and Lancaster respectively. Does no-one know the story of the old woman's prophesy when Richard the Third rode across Bow Bridge to Bosworth? There have been two kings from Leicester and both ended up in the River Soar! No he was not from Leicester he was born at Fotheringhay castle in Northamptonshire in October 1452.
stourbridgefox Posted 5 June 2012 Posted 5 June 2012 No he was not from Leicester he was born at Fotheringhay castle in Northamptonshire in October 1452. Fotheringhay Castle is near Oundle, which is right on the eastern edge of Leicestershire. Wikipedia says the castle is in Northamptonshire but it might have been in Leicestershire in the 15th century. Richard III is most often claimed to be from Leicestershire, so I've accepted this as fact. The fact he stayed in Leicester Castle before the battle suggests he saw it as home territory. So it's definitely fair to say Richard III lost a home match, and furthermore, to a damn Welsh team which shouldn't have been in the English league anyway !!
Leicester_Numan Posted 5 June 2012 Posted 5 June 2012 We were on the Yorkist side anyway which fits the little bit that I knew about it. Really should have read about it by now but it's one of those things I never got round to. Back to the original subject, still not a rose on the badge. As was correctly stated earlier, it's a cinquefoil, a member of the rose family, the clue being in the 5 petals. Roses have more than 5
Webbo Posted 5 June 2012 Posted 5 June 2012 We were on the Yorkist side anyway which fits the little bit that I knew about it. Really should have read about it by now but it's one of those things I never got round to. Back to the original subject, still not a rose on the badge. As was correctly stated earlier, it's a cinquefoil, a member of the rose family, the clue being in the 5 petals. Roses have more than 5
Daggers Posted 5 June 2012 Posted 5 June 2012 Richard the Third was from Oundle which is a small village in leicestershire It's a town and it's in Northamptonshire.
Leicester_Numan Posted 5 June 2012 Posted 5 June 2012 Ok, should have made it clearer. We're talking about the City badge, therefore heraldry. Cinquefoils have 5 petals and roses have more. See Finnegans post.
Finnegan Posted 5 June 2012 Posted 5 June 2012 Richard the Third was from Oundle which is a small village in leicestershire out towards the borders of Northamptonshire and Cambridgeshire. As Henry Tudor camped in Wales to rally support on home territory, Richard rallied support in his home territory of Leicestershire. So the rose on the badge is a reference to the House of York. The symbol of Yorkshire and Leicestershire is the white rose of York. There is a statue of Richard the Third in Castle Gardens and it is surrounded by white roses. Richard the Third spent his last night before being killed at Bosworth in the castle which used to be where Castle Gardens now is. Not many places use the white rose as an image because Tudor propaganda rubbished the reputation of the late King Richard with a little help from William Shakespeare. The Tudor Rose is actually a combination of the white and red roses of York and Lancaster respectively. Does no-one know the story of the old woman's prophesy when Richard the Third rode across Bow Bridge to Bosworth? There have been two kings from Leicester and both ended up in the River Soar! No it is not. It is not a white rose. It is not a rose at all. It is nothing to do with Yorkshire, the War of the Roses, Henry, Richard or anything else. For the third time, it is a cinequefoil, which looks nothing like a rose - even in heraldry* - and is a key symbol on the coat of arms of the city, the club and, before that, the Earl of Leicester. (I'm sure the rest of what you put is accurate, however. I've no reason to doubt otherwise.) * Rose = flat edges + central flower. Cinquefoil = Pointed edges + no central flower.
Zingari Posted 5 June 2012 Posted 5 June 2012 a cinquefoil is a rose http://symboldictionary.net/?p=1510
Finnegan Posted 5 June 2012 Posted 5 June 2012 a cinquefoil is a rose http://symboldictionary.net/?p=1510 If you want to argue botany, yes, but in heraldry - which is up for discussion - it's something different. In the same way a lion rampant and a lion passant are still both, you know, lions but there's a huge difference in both appearance and (as I'm sure most of you would agree!) symbolism in the following two images. Edit: And, further, it should also be noted that whilst the same family, even in botanical terms you're talking about something quite considerably different to what's considered a common rose in England.
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.