Amin Posted 12 July 2012 Author Posted 12 July 2012 It's now a British 1-2. Was surprised to see Cadel fall away like that on the last climb.
Guest MattP Posted 12 July 2012 Posted 12 July 2012 Same here, he looks under pressure. Wiggins looking very good still, Froome is quite frightening, would be a top rider on most other teams.
vandamman Posted 12 July 2012 Posted 12 July 2012 Todays stage was a great watch, Froome's and Wiggins performance was so assured. If Team Sky continue to pull together and barring a disaster, Wiggins will win.
SOCCERROO FOX Posted 12 July 2012 Posted 12 July 2012 Still might Proud of Cadel, he has finished 2nd in two previous tours so he wasn't prepared to finish 2nd again. So he rolled the dice and attacked very early, it didn't work but good on him having a crack. There is a lot of talk about Wiggins on drugs but if there was to be suspicion it should be on Froome, he has been nothing short of super human on every stage this year.
Guest MattP Posted 12 July 2012 Posted 12 July 2012 Still might Proud of Cadel, he has finished 2nd in two previous tours so he wasn't prepared to finish 2nd again. So he rolled the dice and attacked very early, it didn't work but good on him having a crack. There is a lot of talk about Wiggins on drugs but if there was to be suspicion it should be on Froome, he has been nothing short of super human on every stage this year. No idea where the Wiggins rumours have come from, he's as clean as they come, people seem to forget he has been on the Olympic testing for the last 6 years, you can't hide from that. He can't avoid that like Contador/Armstrong could.
shen Posted 13 July 2012 Posted 13 July 2012 No idea where the Wiggins rumours have come from, he's as clean as they come, people seem to forget he has been on the Olympic testing for the last 6 years, you can't hide from that. He can't avoid that like Contador/Armstrong could. Hah, come off it bud. There's simply no doubting that all the top riders are getting a 'little extra'. It's so ingrained in the sport and has been around for many decades now. I actually think a point will come when doping will be an accepted form of athletic enhancement. Why deny it's legitimacy and effects? It's accepted in all other layers of society (health care, academic institutions, 'regular Joe' work etc) so why not in the world of sports?
Captain... Posted 13 July 2012 Posted 13 July 2012 Hah, come off it bud. There's simply no doubting that all the top riders are getting a 'little extra'. It's so ingrained in the sport and has been around for many decades now. I actually think a point will come when doping will be an accepted form of athletic enhancement. Why deny it's legitimacy and effects? It's accepted in all other layers of society (health care, academic institutions, 'regular Joe' work etc) so why not in the world of sports? They are some serious allegations there, Wiggins has never been found to have ever been even in consideration for possibly maybe having taken drugs and has been subjected to some seriously stringent testing. Now of course they are all heavily supplemented with protein and diet pills and anything and everything legal to get a competitive advantage but I do think that it is sad that anyone who succeeds at this sport is immediately dismissed as being on drugs, and fair play to Wiggins for telling them all to fvck off.
shen Posted 13 July 2012 Posted 13 July 2012 They are some serious allegations there, Wiggins has never been found to have ever been even in consideration for possibly maybe having taken drugs and has been subjected to some seriously stringent testing. Now of course they are all heavily supplemented with protein and diet pills and anything and everything legal to get a competitive advantage but I do think that it is sad that anyone who succeeds at this sport is immediately dismissed as being on drugs, and fair play to Wiggins for telling them all to fvck off. It's a romantic idea that the top athletes in this sport are clean. Every professional rider will tell you that it's systematic within the sport and already starts at a very young age. Besides training, diet and 'supplements', riders are trying all methods to get an edge, some more legal than others. I mean, all this altitude training or sleeping in 'oxygene' tents that are still classed as 'legal' that increase your red blood cell count is very similar to the effects of the 'illegal' doping. It's a very fuzzy line already, so you could very well argue that it's arbitrary to decide what's ok and what isn't. It's easier to accept the conditions of the sport when you assume that top riders do use every possible way to gain a competitive edge. I still admire these guys because they're fantastic athletes either way.
Captain... Posted 13 July 2012 Posted 13 July 2012 It's a romantic idea that the top athletes in this sport are clean. Every professional rider will tell you that it's systematic within the sport and already starts at a very young age. Besides training, diet and 'supplements', riders are trying all methods to get an edge, some more legal than others. I mean, all this altitude training or sleeping in 'oxygene' tents that are still classed as 'legal' that increase your red blood cell count is very similar to the effects of the 'illegal' doping. It's a very fuzzy line already, so you could very well argue that it's arbitrary to decide what's ok and what isn't. It's easier to accept the conditions of the sport when you assume that top riders do use every possible way to gain a competitive edge. I still admire these guys because they're fantastic athletes either way. But they do decide, and it may be arbitrary to say one thing is legal and something similar is not, what is clear is that Wiggins has been tested a lot and never failed a test and has stayed within what is determined as legal.
shen Posted 13 July 2012 Posted 13 July 2012 But they do decide, and it may be arbitrary to say one thing is legal and something similar is not, what is clear is that Wiggins has been tested a lot and never failed a test and has stayed within what is determined as legal. Armstrong never failed a test either, yet testimonies say he and his teammates systematically doped themselves from here to heaven... Speaking of doped cyclists, another one won today!
Amin Posted 13 July 2012 Author Posted 13 July 2012 Armstrong never failed a test either, yet testimonies say he and his teammates systematically doped themselves from here to heaven... Speaking of doped cyclists, another one won today! Ex-doped cyclist.
Captain... Posted 13 July 2012 Posted 13 July 2012 Armstrong never failed a test either, yet testimonies say he and his teammates systematically doped themselves from here to heaven... Speaking of doped cyclists, another one won today! But as someone has already said Armstrong et al were never subject to Olympic testing.
shen Posted 13 July 2012 Posted 13 July 2012 Ex-doped cyclist. Exactly. How the hell will he have any credibility when he's already been caught once? I don't understand why cheaters are allowed back in the sport anyway. Seems like double standards: Trying to stamp out cheating, but give them a slap on the hands and let them back in if they got caught. But as someone has already said Armstrong et al were never subject to Olympic testing. That's ok, I won't keep on prodding. My angle on it is simply assuming top riders are doped because the edge it gives is too big to make up with perfect training, diets etc. If you think different then I'll leave you to it. I just believe it's naïve and romantic to think the sport is clean (which the exclusion of Remy Di Gregorio and Contador have very clearly confirmed it isn't). I still think it's a fascinating sport and I hope that the riders and the proper authorities will finally make a decision on whether to stamp it out whole-heartedly or turn a blind eye and rake in the money and fame as long as the interest remains.
Amin Posted 13 July 2012 Author Posted 13 July 2012 Exactly. How the hell will he have any credibility when he's already been caught once? I don't understand why cheaters are allowed back in the sport anyway. Seems like double standards: Trying to stamp out cheating, but give them a slap on the hands and let them back in if they got caught. I can't really argue with you because you make some valid points, but I suppose it depends on whether you think cheaters deserve a second chance after serving a ban or not.
Super_horns Posted 14 July 2012 Posted 14 July 2012 Bit like the Chambers saga really in athletics. Be interesting to see the reaction if Miller was to win a medal at the Olympics as his case will be more high profile.
marko Posted 14 July 2012 Posted 14 July 2012 Exactly. How the hell will he have any credibility when he's already been caught once? I don't understand why cheaters are allowed back in the sport anyway. Seems like double standards: Trying to stamp out cheating, but give them a slap on the hands and let them back in if they got caught. Because it would be completely illegal to ban them for life.
marko Posted 14 July 2012 Posted 14 July 2012 Hah, come off it bud. There's simply no doubting that all the top riders are getting a 'little extra'. It's so ingrained in the sport and has been around for many decades now. I actually think a point will come when doping will be an accepted form of athletic enhancement. Why deny it's legitimacy and effects? It's accepted in all other layers of society (health care, academic institutions, 'regular Joe' work etc) so why not in the world of sports? Do you honestly believe Wiggins is doped then? I think you do the man an incredible disservice if you do. Wiggins has always let his staunch views on doping be known. If you remember back to when he was kicked off the Tour when a Cofidis team member was found guilty of a doping offence, he was more than critical. He will be tested after every stage whilst he's in yellow and as has been stated, he's subject to Olympic testing. If he'd come from nowhere then I could see why you were suspicious of him, but he hasn't and the guy has a pretty impressive palmares. As for the whole arbitrary thing on what's legal or not - well, it's not really arbitrary. Whilst oxygen tents and altitude training may have the same effect on red blood cell counts etc, it's not the same as injecting/consuming synthesised compounds that have well documented inherent side-effects, such as organ damage, cardiovascular disease, psychological problems, etc etc. Yes, altitude training and oxygen tents give the athlete a form of competitive advantage, they are so far removed from introducing a synthesised agent to the body, there's no comparison. However, whilst I agree that not everyone on the Tour will be clean, to suggest all top riders doped - which you seem to suggest - is misplaced.
Amin Posted 16 July 2012 Author Posted 16 July 2012 Bradley Wiggins pays tribute to Mark Cavendish over Tour de France sacrifice http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12418/Bradley-Wiggins-pays-tribute-to-Mark-Cavendish-over-Tour-de-France-sacrifice.aspx As a Cavendish fan I've been dissapointed to see him win only one stage at this year's Tour but it all be worth it if Wiggins stays in the yellow all the way to Paris.
marko Posted 16 July 2012 Posted 16 July 2012 Bradley Wiggins pays tribute to Mark Cavendish over Tour de France sacrifice http://www.velonatio...-sacrifice.aspx As a Cavendish fan I've been dissapointed to see him win only one stage at this year's Tour but it all be worth it if Wiggins stays in the yellow all the way to Paris. I'm sure Brad & Co will repay Cav in the Olympic Road Race, helping him over Box Hill and give him a good lead-out Would love to see the Manx Missile turn on the gas down The Mall.
SOCCERROO FOX Posted 16 July 2012 Posted 16 July 2012 What have been peoples thoughts on this years course? I think it's been poor to be honest, it's been flat, hills, flats, hills, flat, hills. Why have them seemed to have gone away from that big week they spen in the Alps day and it sorts the men from the boys instead of giving them a day on the flat after any sort of tough stage.
Fox in the North Posted 17 July 2012 Posted 17 July 2012 To be fair there's been over 40 abandonments and that's way ahead of last years final t
Fox in the North Posted 17 July 2012 Posted 17 July 2012 To be fair there's been over 40 abandonments and that's way ahead of last years final total, admittedly there's a lot of injuries but that's a usual and we are just getting the ones suffering from fatigue now. Im not experienced in the tour de France, but I think its not that poor and still fairly challenging.
Guest MattP Posted 17 July 2012 Posted 17 July 2012 Bradley Wiggins pays tribute to Mark Cavendish over Tour de France sacrifice http://www.velonatio...-sacrifice.aspx As a Cavendish fan I've been dissapointed to see him win only one stage at this year's Tour but it all be worth it if Wiggins stays in the yellow all the way to Paris. Him and Froome have been absolutely fantastic.
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