AoWW Posted 14 July 2012 Posted 14 July 2012 Maybe we should go back to the age of unpaid servents after all they are just useless poor. Where do I sign up to request one of these minions?
MooseBreath Posted 14 July 2012 Posted 14 July 2012 I'm sure someone of your enthusiasm for the internet would be able to do something off your own back. Or, start growing your own food, living from the land and making an existence with...Hell, fvck that, you'd be a really crap hippy. Yeah I'll start growing my own food, living off the land blah blah and then i'll start trading my surplus for other goods and then I'll realise that a lot of people are struggling to build decent homes so i'll offer to build it for them in exchange for something which I can use to buy goods and oh my ****ing god would you believe it, we're back to having jobs and employers again. WHODA FUNK IT? Did you ever give a serious answer as to why you dont live in a hippy commune?
Daggers Posted 14 July 2012 Posted 14 July 2012 Because hippies are smelly cvnts with no ideals, no brains and far too much cannabis. I'm not keen on their really crap rainbow things either...and nut burgers can suck my cock.
Rincewind Posted 14 July 2012 Posted 14 July 2012 I'm leaving this thread in the good hands of those less impoverished than myself. It is obvious I am not worthy to post alongside my masters and mistresses.
MooseBreath Posted 14 July 2012 Posted 14 July 2012 When I said "useless poor" I meant it literally. I don't mean all poor people are useless. I am quite poor myself, although I have worked to get myself into a position with good prospects.
Daggers Posted 14 July 2012 Posted 14 July 2012 Oh good, a 'poor off'. I'm so poor that my chickens feed me.
MooseBreath Posted 14 July 2012 Posted 14 July 2012 Isn't that what chickens are for anyway? I can't imagine they're particularly good company.
MPH Posted 14 July 2012 Posted 14 July 2012 Mi9nimum wage is £6.08. As long as they pay as long as we pay out of our taxes that they can shite all over anyone they want. For London that is awful. It's bad enough in Leicester. Are they part of the offices dept or is a cleaning company contracted to do it? If its agency pay will be crap. They ought to get together and form their own cleaning business then charge the dept more. Although someone did make the point i was going to make too.... And that is its actually the people who own the contract who decide how much the cleaners are paid, not really the people at whitehall...
Captain... Posted 14 July 2012 Posted 14 July 2012 Although someone did make the point i was going to make too.... And that is its actually the people who own the contract who decide how much the cleaners are paid, not really the people at whitehall... It's not really though, it is market forces which determine wages, cleaners are at the bottom of the pile because it is unskilled labour in a saturated market. And if it wasn't for the minimum wage I guarantee you view would be being said less.
Rincewind Posted 14 July 2012 Posted 14 July 2012 Do you mean that it is unskilled in the sense that is work best suited to the female gender who are accustomed to the tasks that have to be undertaken in their role as the dutiful housewife?
Captain... Posted 15 July 2012 Posted 15 July 2012 Do you mean that it is unskilled in the sense that is work best suited to the female gender who are accustomed to the tasks that have to be undertaken in their role as the dutiful housewife? No I think you mean that, I tend to prefer my misogyny to be blatant and in your face, not subtle digs.
Rincewind Posted 15 July 2012 Posted 15 July 2012 I just think it could be construed as insulting to cleaners being classed as unworthy of a living wage just because their job is classed as unskilled. They work hard for their money, a lot harder than those sitting behind their Whitehall desks twiddling their thumbs all day or taking a couple of hours off to have a meeting on the golf course or 'Down the club' I have applied for cleaning jobs and most want experience which I take to mean that the job entails some learning of skills. It is a bosses job market in todays high unemployment state. People are desperate for jobs which means companies can do as they like and pay what they can get away with. The gap between the rich and the poor is widening and more and more people are slipping down the ladder. I was not having a dig at anybody, I just don't judge people based on their social standing. My position is not great but there are many people worse off than me and I think it would be morally wrong to ignore them just because I am not like them.
Captain... Posted 15 July 2012 Posted 15 July 2012 I just think it could be construed as insulting to cleaners being classed as unworthy of a living wage just because their job is classed as unskilled. They work hard for their money, a lot harder than those sitting behind their Whitehall desks twiddling their thumbs all day or taking a couple of hours off to have a meeting on the golf course or 'Down the club' I have applied for cleaning jobs and most want experience which I take to mean that the job entails some learning of skills. It is a bosses job market in todays high unemployment state. People are desperate for jobs which means companies can do as they like and pay what they can get away with. The gap between the rich and the poor is widening and more and more people are slipping down the ladder. I was not having a dig at anybody, I just don't judge people based on their social standing. My position is not great but there are many people worse off than me and I think it would be morally wrong to ignore them just because I am not like them. Me neither, but the fact is anyone can clean, most people clean everyday of their lives in one form or another, in that sense it doesn't require a particular skill set to be able to do it. Obviously some people are better cleaners than others, but that is irrelevant when it comes to money. If you want more than minimum wage to clean, then you will not get employed as there are plenty of people out there that will do it for minimum wage. I am not saying it is right I am just stating facts, and without the minimum wage they would get paid a lot less, as some people do cleaning without a contract and full workers rights. Now if you believe the minimum wage is not sufficient to provide a living wage them that is a different matter, but we have all kinds of benefits to help those not earning a liveable wage to make up the shortfall. Personally I don't think that an hour of anybody's time should be more important, and more valuable than anyone else's but I don't get to make the rules.
Turtles Head Posted 15 July 2012 Posted 15 July 2012 Do you mean that it is unskilled in the sense that is work best suited to the female gender who are accustomed to the tasks that have to be undertaken in their role as the dutiful housewife? Aren't you a writer?
Rincewind Posted 15 July 2012 Posted 15 July 2012 Aren't you a writer? Not professional. I do not have the time left to become famous enough to be a success at it.
Rincewind Posted 15 July 2012 Posted 15 July 2012 Me neither, but the fact is anyone can clean, most people clean everyday of their lives in one form or another, in that sense it doesn't require a particular skill set to be able to do it. Obviously some people are better cleaners than others, but that is irrelevant when it comes to money. If you want more than minimum wage to clean, then you will not get employed as there are plenty of people out there that will do it for minimum wage. I am not saying it is right I am just stating facts, and without the minimum wage they would get paid a lot less, as some people do cleaning without a contract and full workers rights. Now if you believe the minimum wage is not sufficient to provide a living wage them that is a different matter, but we have all kinds of benefits to help those not earning a liveable wage to make up the shortfall. Personally I don't think that an hour of anybody's time should be more important, and more valuable than anyone else's but I don't get to make the rules. I am not disagreeing. There is not a lotone can do because cleaning businesses are springing up all over. In fact a work program I attended employed ex attenantees and then help them to set up their own cleaning businesses so in fact they are being helped to compete for contracts. One cleaning job I have seen advertised is at a bookmakers. The advert says cleaner - cashier. They want the cleaner who will also be trained to work behind the counter. That is two jobs for one wage. There is more and more of this. Caretakes do not only do maintenance but clean and unlock/lock up as well. One warehouse advertised involved loading unloading putting stock away, entering data on a PC, checking people in and out and cleaning and that was around minimum wage. But because of the current climate it can be done. That is not to say that if I was working at a place and asked to help with another job I would not do it if I had completed my own or it was slack. But what happens sometimes is that companies reorganize, lay 3 people off then set two of three back on with a new contract, less money and shairing the third persons work.
Captain... Posted 15 July 2012 Posted 15 July 2012 I am not disagreeing. There is not a lotone can do because cleaning businesses are springing up all over. In fact a work program I attended employed ex attenantees and then help them to set up their own cleaning businesses so in fact they are being helped to compete for contracts. One cleaning job I have seen advertised is at a bookmakers. The advert says cleaner - cashier. They want the cleaner who will also be trained to work behind the counter. That is two jobs for one wage. There is more and more of this. Caretakes do not only do maintenance but clean and unlock/lock up as well. One warehouse advertised involved loading unloading putting stock away, entering data on a PC, checking people in and out and cleaning and that was around minimum wage. But because of the current climate it can be done. That is not to say that if I was working at a place and asked to help with another job I would not do it if I had completed my own or it was slack. But what happens sometimes is that companies reorganize, lay 3 people off then set two of three back on with a new contract, less money and shairing the third persons work. Well if 2 people can do a good enough job in theory there is no problew with that (except the lower wages part). I would prefer it if they kept all 3 people on but they worked less hours, but at the moment that is more costly. This goes back to the age of consumption thread, with technology at the stage it is at it is easier and faster to do many things, including cleaning, there are constant innovations in cleaning products and equipment to make it easier and faster and so will need less man hours to clean to the same standard. Brilliant hooray for technology, and this is true of so many jobs. But this is way we need to change the way we work, less work hours for everyone more employment across the board, just shorter working day, more leisure hours more flexible working hours. If household incomes drop them it will force down prices and stop rampant profiteering. Simple. *obviously not simple, but it makes more sense to me than 20% unemployed 60% working with an unhealthy work life balance & 20% making a killing off the cal of them. * stats made up for illustrative purposes
Rincewind Posted 15 July 2012 Posted 15 July 2012 True. I would retire now if I could but the govt in their wisdom changed the rules meaning I have to wait another year for pension credits while being on JSA looking for someone to employ me for a couple of years in an occupation that a younger person could do better quicker and contribute more hours without sickness.Defeatest? Only in the realistic sense. They are very good at the charity shop I have recently started. Very helpful and supportive in showing me new skills but itis voluntary. Would they be the same ifthey had to pay a wage? I am sure I am not alone in this situation. I just have to be lucky at some point and stay positive.
Guest Posted 15 July 2012 Posted 15 July 2012 , why does nonsense like that always focus on useless poor people? Surely in that case the rich are suffering just as much from inequality? Or do we at once concede that money is great while also claiming that people shouldn't want more money? Do you ever think before you write or read what you've written after you write? Because without them I probably wouldn't have a job. That's pretty pathetic.
sphericalfox Posted 15 July 2012 Posted 15 July 2012 Do you ever think before you write or read what you've written after you write? That's pretty pathetic. Try not to bite, he was determined to wind someone in last night.
Rincewind Posted 15 July 2012 Posted 15 July 2012 What he is saying I think is that it is OK for the rich to want more money but not the useless poor people and that is why equality is wrong. The rich should also have the right to be one of the useless poor. If they so choose.
Guest Posted 15 July 2012 Posted 15 July 2012 Try not to bite, he was determined to wind someone in last night. Can't help it. too bored.
MooseBreath Posted 15 July 2012 Posted 15 July 2012 That's pretty pathetic. No it's realistic. Can't get a job without someone to employ you. No-one will employ you if they don't have any money. Pretty simple.
Rincewind Posted 16 July 2012 Posted 16 July 2012 No. Monkeys can be trained to do it so I have heard. It is an occupation reserved for the useless poor.
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