Safe Standing Roadshow Posted 31 July 2012 Share Posted 31 July 2012 I wouldn't get too down on the club. Faced with a call out of the blue from a journalist they are bound to give the stock answer. Let's hope that one or two club officials come over to the Counting House on the 18th so that they can then express a more informed opinion. We mustn't make them feel they are being backed into corner or they will naturally react defensively. What I have asked other clubs to say after seeing the roadshow is something along these lines: "We acknowledge that some fans prefer to stand. We have seen the rail seat concept, we think it has merit and we would like the relevant authorities to look at it seriously and define the criteria by which it could be used in grounds like ours in the future." Several clubs, as you know, have agreed to such wording publicly. A good few others have done so privately. It is, after all, not an unreasonable view to be asked to support. Let's hope that your club will do likewise once they have seen what is actually being proposed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purpleronnie Posted 31 July 2012 Share Posted 31 July 2012 I reckon it will happen in scotland in the next couple of seasons, obviously they dont have to abide by the same laws as we do so its much much much easier to introduce there, plus their leagues are in such a mess fans are listened to and safe standing is one of the suggestions thats been taken up, but hopefully when it does we dont have to keep going on about germany and can point to our neighbours instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 31 July 2012 Share Posted 31 July 2012 Safe standing was raised at the FCC meeting in January. The current board were not receptive to the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilo Posted 31 July 2012 Share Posted 31 July 2012 This news in no ways surprises me. It'll take a great deal of fan pressure and the local media to get onside, not to mention more clubs around the country being as receptive as Aston Villa and Derby County. There's a long way to go yet but the safe standing roadshow is a positive step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purpleronnie Posted 31 July 2012 Share Posted 31 July 2012 Did they just tow the same old like 'seats are safer' or did they at least have an opinion that wasn't just standard response?...be interesting to hear their arguement against it as I cant think of one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Fox Posted 31 July 2012 Share Posted 31 July 2012 Safe standing was raised at the FCC meeting in January. The current board were not receptive to the idea. Let me guess just Kevin W**ker Barclay right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilo Posted 31 July 2012 Share Posted 31 July 2012 Did they just tow the same old like 'seats are safer' or did they at least have an opinion that wasn't just standard response?...be interesting to hear their arguement against it as I cant think of one. I don't think a logical argument against it from a safety perspective really exists, but standing at football grounds has been the subject of so much negative publicity and concerted attacks from the hierarchy that it's very easy for the all-seater lobby to sell the lie that standing is dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purpleronnie Posted 31 July 2012 Share Posted 31 July 2012 I don't think a logical argument against it from a safety perspective really exists, but standing at football grounds has been the subject of so much negative publicity and concerted attacks from the hierarchy that it's very easy for the all-seater lobby to sell the lie that standing is dangerous. But I would assume the board arent part of the 'all seater' lobby, i just dont understand why people cant express how they really feel or how people can be swayed by the powers that be without doing some research or simply opening their eyes...pisses me off....lets not rock the boat, our jobs are nice and safe, standing at games has no relevance to my life so I wont do anything about it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 31 July 2012 Share Posted 31 July 2012 Barclay wasn't at the meeting. I would prefer it if the minutes were released. I've been asking for ages when they will, as I would like to see if they put the full response in, but the main issues appear to be potential structural changes (which wouldn't be an issue if something like rail seating was used), and the safety element. I was more disappointed they dismissed the arguments against their assumptions, if I'm honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Fox Posted 31 July 2012 Share Posted 31 July 2012 Barclay wasn't at the meeting. I would prefer it if the minutes were released. I've been asking for ages when they will, as I would like to see if they put the full response in, but the main issues appear to be potential structural changes (which wouldn't be an issue if something like rail seating was used), and the safety element. I was more disappointed they dismissed the arguments against their assumptions, if I'm honest. If we are to eventually extend the stadium that doesn't make any sense whatsoever just excuses imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilo Posted 31 July 2012 Share Posted 31 July 2012 Barclay wasn't at the meeting. I would prefer it if the minutes were released. I've been asking for ages when they will, as I would like to see if they put the full response in, but the main issues appear to be potential structural changes (which wouldn't be an issue if something like rail seating was used), and the safety element. I was more disappointed they dismissed the arguments against their assumptions, if I'm honest. I'm sure we discussed one or two of these issues over Twitter a couple of weeks ago and the fact that there would be very few disadvantages for LCFC in introducing the rail seating. 1) Everybody would have an allocated spot in the stand, just as they have an allocated seat now. Thus, the control of knowing who is in which seat would not be lost. 2) It is actually easier to retrofit rail seating to newer stands and stadia due to better quality concrete and the gradient of the stands. 3) It would not lead to an increase in capacity or overcrowding as the rail seats take up no more room than the conventional seats that are in place now. 4) While there would be the initial outlay of the seats to consider, the increased sales of a popular standing area and the fact that the steel rail seats are far more hard wearing and less likely to need replacing than their plastic counterparts would be more economic than the status quo in the long run. Quite frankly, it's an absolute no brainer and I'm baffled as to why the club are so dismissive of something a great number of fans actually want. Perhaps a successful August 18th at the Counting House will make it very clear how popular it is. FAO Stu; are you doing a petition and if so will you be delivering it to LCFC as well as the FSF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1964FOX Posted 31 July 2012 Share Posted 31 July 2012 Barclay wasn't at the meeting. I would prefer it if the minutes were released. I've been asking for ages when they will, as I would like to see if they put the full response in, but the main issues appear to be potential structural changes (which wouldn't be an issue if something like rail seating was used), and the safety element. I was more disappointed they dismissed the arguments against their assumptions, if I'm honest. Who was representing the clubs view please? What's your opinion of how knowledgable they were? I think the issue is probably one of lack of knowledge of safety stats and new designs which is why it would be great for someone to come from the club so they could be better informed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1964FOX Posted 31 July 2012 Share Posted 31 July 2012 3) It would not lead to an increase in capacity or overcrowding as the rail seats take up no more room than the conventional seats that are in place now. 4) While there would be the initial outlay of the seats to consider, the increased sales of a popular standing area and the fact that the steel rail seats are far more hard wearing and less likely to need replacing than their plastic counterparts would be more economic than the status quo in the long run. FAO Stu; are you doing a petition and if so will you be delivering it to LCFC as well as the FSF? Some of the newer designs do lead to higher capacity in the same space with increased access and egress so it's safer and as you say these modern designs fit naturally within the gradient and design of new builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilo Posted 31 July 2012 Share Posted 31 July 2012 Some of the newer designs do lead to higher capacity in the same space with increased access and egress so it's safer and as you say these modern designs fit naturally within the gradient and design of new builds. I'm not sure it would necessarily apply with retrofitting at the KP to be fair, the exits and concourses were only designed with the seated capacity in mind. Any increase in capacity without extending those would probably run into legal issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Year Of The Fox Posted 31 July 2012 Author Share Posted 31 July 2012 Bilo, originally the petition was for the FSF. Though handing the sheets to the club would prove beneficial too. So.. Both! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1964FOX Posted 31 July 2012 Share Posted 31 July 2012 I'm not sure it would necessarily apply with retrofitting at the KP to be fair, the exits and concourses were only designed with the seated capacity in mind. Any increase in capacity without extending those would probably run into legal issues. Not certain but extending the east stand would increase the capacity to just over 40,000 as planning permission already allow. This would be achieved from the same amount of vomitaries so they must have been made to required specification for increased numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilo Posted 31 July 2012 Share Posted 31 July 2012 If that's the case then, you've an easy way of increasing capacity. I believe that German regulations state that you can have 1.5 standing places for every seated one, so a seated area with a capacity of 3000 would be able to take 4500 standing. I'm not sure if this applies to the rail seating model or terracing that looks like more old school, but it's an interesting comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1964FOX Posted 31 July 2012 Share Posted 31 July 2012 If that's the case then, you've an easy way of increasing capacity. I believe that German regulations state that you can have 1.5 standing places for every seated one, so a seated area with a capacity of 3000 would be able to take 4500 standing. I'm not sure if this applies to the rail seating model or terracing that looks like more old school, but it's an interesting comparison. The rail seat version allows 72 standing fans in the place of 40 seated fans so if my math is correct 80% increase capacity for any area converted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 31 July 2012 Share Posted 31 July 2012 If we are to eventually extend the stadium that doesn't make any sense whatsoever just excuses imho. That's another issue entirely... I'm sure we discussed one or two of these issues over Twitter a couple of weeks ago... We did. But I don't think they want to listen to reasoned argument. Who was representing the clubs view please? What's your opinion of how knowledgable they were? I think the issue is probably one of lack of knowledge of safety stats and new designs which is why it would be great for someone to come from the club so they could be better informed. Susan Whelan answered the questions, in the main. My impression is that these are people who have no concept of the history of football, and of terracing. The impression given was that they have been put off by scaremongering. I was willing to discuss the matter more fully with them, but they were not interested. As I say, I want the meeting minutes releasing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lutterworthfox Posted 31 July 2012 Share Posted 31 July 2012 if any of you guys want me to collect the details of fans who support this idea, I can have a form created by tomorrow on my web site www.lcfcfamily.co.uk and then spread the word using Twitter Let me know - looking foward to standing at Burton tomorrow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Year Of The Fox Posted 31 July 2012 Author Share Posted 31 July 2012 Please do mate thatd be awesome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lutterworthfox Posted 31 July 2012 Share Posted 31 July 2012 Sorted http://www.lcfcfamily.co.uk/polls/index will spread the word on Twitter tomorrow for you, if you can do the same on here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1964FOX Posted 1 August 2012 Share Posted 1 August 2012 Sorted http://www.lcfcfamily.co.uk/polls/index will spread the word on Twitter tomorrow for you, if you can do the same on here Great website you have there. Thanks for your help we really do need as many there as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan LCFC Posted 1 August 2012 Share Posted 1 August 2012 I'm sure we discussed one or two of these issues over Twitter a couple of weeks ago and the fact that there would be very few disadvantages for LCFC in introducing the rail seating. 1) Everybody would have an allocated spot in the stand, just as they have an allocated seat now. Thus, the control of knowing who is in which seat would not be lost. 2) It is actually easier to retrofit rail seating to newer stands and stadia due to better quality concrete and the gradient of the stands. 3) It would not lead to an increase in capacity or overcrowding as the rail seats take up no more room than the conventional seats that are in place now. 4) While there would be the initial outlay of the seats to consider, the increased sales of a popular standing area and the fact that the steel rail seats are far more hard wearing and less likely to need replacing than their plastic counterparts would be more economic than the status quo in the long run. Quite frankly, it's an absolute no brainer and I'm baffled as to why the club are so dismissive of something a great number of fans actually want. Perhaps a successful August 18th at the Counting House will make it very clear how popular it is. FAO Stu; are you doing a petition and if so will you be delivering it to LCFC as well as the FSF? Our club's an absolute joke, it really is, the customer service is simply the worst I've ever come across in anything. The ignorance, refusal to get off the fence and almost a willingness to piss any non-families off (it genuinely seems that way) is absolutely atrocious. There's got to be serious change at this club behind the scenes, I don't know who exactly is to blame. The way LCFC are, it's going to take an absolute miracle of an August 18th, I'm 100% there and will do all I can. I've put it on Posh's forum and the small-time bastards, not a single reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan LCFC Posted 1 August 2012 Share Posted 1 August 2012 Great website you have there. Thanks for your help we really do need as many there as possible. Aye agreed with you, good little site that is, will help you with it if you need any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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