Mack Posted 19 November 2012 Posted 19 November 2012 As some of you know I am half Greek. And my friends brother, a professor, has made a 30 minute documentary about Greece's troubles. It's worth a look if you have half an hour and an interest in the subject.
Finnegan Posted 19 November 2012 Posted 19 November 2012 MattP would love Greece, they've got loads of fascists at the minute. They pretty much run the police force.
Guest Posted 19 November 2012 Posted 19 November 2012 I would have had an interest had you called the topic "A Greek Tragedy", or something along those lines.
Mack Posted 19 November 2012 Author Posted 19 November 2012 MattP would love Greece, they've got loads of fascists at the minute. They pretty much run the police force. That is very true. In fact Golden Dawn, the fascist party in Greece are supported by the Police and there have been stories of them killing immigrants while the Police turn a blind eye. Very depressing.
I am Rod Hull Posted 19 November 2012 Posted 19 November 2012 "I was sleeping I have to admit that first, and then say, ok, I have to wake up, and what I will see when I wake up I might not like..... but I have to and when you have been woken up you cannot go to sleep again, that`s my hope"
Guest MattP Posted 19 November 2012 Posted 19 November 2012 MattP would love Greece, they've got loads of fascists at the minute. They pretty much run the police force. I actually spent a small time-period in a Greek prison, that's a tale for another day though. I do wish I had been paying the tax as most of them since over the last ten years. It's a great shame though, lovely people the Greeks and the way they have been absolutely stitched up by their politicians has been absolutely terrible. Though they have far bigger fascists in the EU they have to worry about rather than the Police at the minute.
shen Posted 19 November 2012 Posted 19 November 2012 I actually spent a small time-period in a Greek prison, that's a tale for another day though. I do wish I had been paying the tax as most of them since over the last ten years. It's a great shame though, lovely people the Greeks and the way they have been absolutely stitched up by their politicians has been absolutely terrible. Though they have far bigger fascists in the EU they have to worry about rather than the Police at the minute. Can't say that I have found the Greeks I've met in my life to be concerned in any way about how their country was run. In fact, it seems most of them knew that the country was going down the drain, but as long as it didn't affect them, they would gladly exploit the system for their own benefit. I know I'm likely quite biased, and the sample of Greeks I have this from is only about a dozen, none of whom reside in Greece for the main part of the year... One conversation with a Greek Cypriot I worked for sticks out though. He criticised the Danish police/authorities for being 'too easy to con', i.e. he couldn't see sense in businesses paying taxes when they could avoid it with some more or less simple 'financial engineering'. That had me pretty much gob-smacked...
Carl the Llama Posted 19 November 2012 Posted 19 November 2012 I actually spent a small time-period in a Greek prison, that's a tale for another day though. I do wish I had been paying the tax as most of them since over the last ten years. It's a great shame though, lovely people the Greeks and the way they have been absolutely stitched up by their politicians has been absolutely terrible. Though they have far bigger fascists in the EU they have to worry about rather than the Police at the minute. Fascists in the EU? I'm listening...
Guest MattP Posted 19 November 2012 Posted 19 November 2012 Fascists in the EU? I'm listening... The undemocratic autocracy the EU has shown over the last few years has not been seen on this continent since that fella from Austria showed up. History shows what happens when you move into countries and move in unelected representatives you chose yourself, the EU is a dictatorship so a revolution is inevitable and I'm sure the people of Greece at the start of it before it spreads.
Carl the Llama Posted 19 November 2012 Posted 19 November 2012 The undemocratic autocracy the EU has shown over the last few years has not been seen on this continent since that fella from Austria showed up. History shows what happens when you move into countries and move in unelected representatives you chose yourself, the EU is a dictatorship so a revolution is inevitable and I'm sure the people of Greece at the start of it before it spreads. Undemocratic autocracy? Nice words but you clearly don't know what they mean. Maybe it should be in all fairness, since the only thing to back up your claim of "EU fascists" are the UKIP members voted in by us embarrassingly enough. The EU hasn't "moved into" any country - countries have to apply and meet certain democratic and economic criteria before gaining membership. That's why countries like Turkey or Croatia aren't in it despite their wanting to be. The only reason Greece got in was because they massively doctored their figures and nobody noticed until far too late.
Nick Posted 19 November 2012 Posted 19 November 2012 MattP would love Greece, they've got loads of fascists at the minute. They pretty much run the police force.
Guest MattP Posted 19 November 2012 Posted 19 November 2012 Undemocratic autocracy? Nice words but you clearly don't know what they mean. Maybe it should be in all fairness, since the only thing to back up your claim of "EU fascists" are the UKIP members voted in by us embarrassingly enough. The EU hasn't "moved into" any country - countries have to apply and meet certain democratic and economic criteria before gaining membership. That's why countries like Turkey or Croatia aren't in it despite their wanting to be. The only reason Greece got in was because they massively doctored their figures and nobody noticed until far too late. Are you actually joking here? You don't think moving unelected politicians into positions of power in member states doesnt constitute undemocratic autocracy? (not going to disagree with the reasons Greece got in, we all know that) though those "idiots" from UKIP told us that at the time didnt they? Just again brushed off as "bigots" or something similar from what I remember? Good job we wont do that again.
Carl the Llama Posted 19 November 2012 Posted 19 November 2012 Are you actually joking here? You don't think moving unelected politicians into positions of power in member states doesnt constitute undemocratic autocracy? (not going to disagree with the reasons Greece got in, we all know that) though those "idiots" from UKIP told us that at the time didnt they? Just again brushed off as "bigots" or something similar from what I remember? Good job we wont do that again. I have no idea what you mean by that. I'm certainly not aware of the EU planting politicians into our, or any other, government... Do you read the Daily Mail by any chance? Btw I don't know why you've quoted me as calling UKIP members "idiots" either. Fascists, yes. Idiots, no.
Nick Posted 19 November 2012 Posted 19 November 2012 I have no idea what you mean by that. I'm certainly not aware of the EU planting politicians into our, or any other, government... Do you read the Daily Mail by any chance? Btw I don't know why you've quoted me as calling UKIP members "idiots" either. Fascists, yes. Idiots, no. Not all the time, when he's at the house of his father, he reads the Telegraph.
Guest MattP Posted 19 November 2012 Posted 19 November 2012 I have no idea what you mean by that. I'm certainly not aware of the EU planting politicians into our, or any other, government... Do you read the Daily Mail by any chance? Btw I don't know why you've quoted me as calling UKIP members "idiots" either. Fascists, yes. Idiots, no. Waahayy the Daily Mail line!!! High Five! Nope, not read it for years, Telegraph or Times man. UKIP the Fascists
I am Rod Hull Posted 19 November 2012 Posted 19 November 2012 MattP would love Greece, they've got loads of fascists at the minute. They pretty much run the police force. Just like the aftermath of the Wall Street crash of 1929 abhorrent political factions will appeal to the subdued masses. ...and nationalism will thrive.
Carl the Llama Posted 19 November 2012 Posted 19 November 2012 Waahayy the Daily Mail line!!! High Five! Nope, not read it for years, Telegraph or Times man. UKIP the Fascists Maybe fascist was a bit strong, but not nearly as much of an exaggeration as you using the term for the EU. I'll settle for bigoted racists. In any case you don't have any explanation of why you claim the EU's "moving unelected politicians into positions of power in member states". Guess we'll leave it there then. Greece was doing fine before the Euro. It really, really wasn't. They joined the EU because they thought it would give them the financial boost they desperately needed. Instead they became an economic deadweight.
Webbo Posted 20 November 2012 Posted 20 November 2012 In any case you don't have any explanation of why you claim the EU's "moving unelected politicians into positions of power in member states". That is an unequivocal fact.
Carl the Llama Posted 20 November 2012 Posted 20 November 2012 That is an unequivocal fact. What is it with you guys? Just because you tell me something I'm entirely unaware of is a fact, doesn't mean I'm suddenly going to say "oh yeah, sh*t, I'm completely wrong, thanks!" Stop being so lazy, bring some proof and then I might believe you. Until then I'll stick by my opinion as searching t'internet myself hasn't given me any evidence to corroborate your claims.
Guest MattP Posted 20 November 2012 Posted 20 November 2012 What is it with you guys? Just because you tell me something I'm entirely unaware of is a fact, doesn't mean I'm suddenly going to say "oh yeah, sh*t, I'm completely wrong, thanks!" Stop being so lazy, bring some proof and then I might believe you. Until then I'll stick by my opinion as searching t'internet myself hasn't given me any evidence to corroborate your claims. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgios_Zanias Georgios P. Zanias (Greek: ΓιώÏγος Î . Ζaνιάς, pronounced [ˈÊorÉ£os zaˈɲas]) was the Minister of Finance in Greece. In June 2012 he was due to be replaced by Vassilis Rapanos[1]. Instead, he was replaced by economist Yiannis Stournaras[2] Zanias was one of the chief negotiators of the bailout of Greece in 2011-2012. They shifted their own one in in Portugal as well after various "negiotiations" with the EU. Think they did with Spain though not 100%. I'm the one who doesn't know the meaning of "undemocratic autocracy" though.
Carl the Llama Posted 20 November 2012 Posted 20 November 2012 http://en.wikipedia....Georgios_Zanias They shifted their own one in in Portugal as well after various "negiotiations" with the EU. Think they did with Spain though not 100%. I'm the one who doesn't know the meaning of "undemocratic autocracy" though. What does this have to do with the EU interfering? From a news article referenced in that wikipedia page you linked to: Prime Minister Antonis Samaras appointed Stournaras as finance minister yesterday to replace his original choice, Vassilios Rapanos, who resigned for health reasons four days after the coalition government was sworn in on June 21. I can only assume you think the EU's poisoning people to force individual governments to freely choose other ministers until the one they want gets picked. In any case I should think the EU would have every right to suggest and discuss candidate selection with member states who are in the economic shitter. It is an economic union among other things after all. Not that that's what's happened here anyway.
Guest MattP Posted 20 November 2012 Posted 20 November 2012 What does this have to do with the EU interfering? From a news article referenced in that wikipedia page you linked to: I can only assume you think the EU's poisoning people to force individual governments to freely choose other ministers until the one they want gets picked. In any case I should think the EU would have every right to suggest and discuss candidate selection with member states who are in the economic shitter. It is an economic union among other things after all. Not that that's what's happened here anyway. It's quite simple, after "negiotiations" with the EU (and you can imagine how much Greece had their way in that) unelected persons were shifted into previous positions held by elected people. The EU to suggest politicians for it's member states? Why not I suppose? I mean Van Rumpey is the head of the EU and he's not been elected by anybody has he? No it hasn't happened here yet, thankfully if we do ever get into serious financial trouble we can rely on the EU to suggest and discuss for which people we will put into our parliament. that makes me feel great. Who needs democracy anymore? The European Union has long gone past the Economic Union is was set up to be.
Carl the Llama Posted 20 November 2012 Posted 20 November 2012 It's quite simple, after "negiotiations" with the EU (and you can imagine how much Greece had their way in that) unelected persons were shifted into previous positions held by elected people. The EU to suggest politicians for it's member states? Why not I suppose? I mean Van Rumpey is the head of the EU and he's not been elected by anybody has he? No it hasn't happened here yet, thankfully if we do ever get into serious financial trouble we can rely on the EU to suggest and discuss for which people we will put into our parliament. that makes me feel great. Who needs democracy anymore? The European Union has long gone past the Economic Union is was set up to be. You've been very selective in your reading of my comment so I'll try this again (case in point: "The European Union has long gone past the Economic Union is was set up to be" in response to "It is an economic union among other things after all" - You're thinking of the EEC in any case. Swing and a miss.) Let me make a quick analogy: Did you specifically elect George Osbourne to be Chancellor? No, you elected the Conservatives (or rather Dave) who then chose his cabinet. If he wanted to change the chancellor he can and there's nothing you can do about it. Better start getting up in arms about that too Matt. The EU didn't suggest who should be Greece's finance minister. There is no evidence of these discussions you mention. I merely surmised that it would be a fair thing to do anyway since it does affect all of the EU indirectly. It didn't actually happen though. An elected PM chose his finance minister after his first choice resigned due to health reasons. Please commit that fact to memory. The whole irony of you claiming the EU undemocratically forces politicians on member states is that the inverse is actually the truth: Elected member state governments put their politicians into positions of power in the EU. Your ignorance on this subject really shines through though when it comes to Van Rompuy. It's almost unfair debating this subject with you. VR is president of the EUROPEAN COUNCIL. Follow that link and read it until you understand exactly what he does. He is by no means the leader of an "Undemocratic Autocracy" as you put it. In fact I challenge you to make any reasonable points showing exactly how the EU is autocratic in any respect whatsoever. The power's so widely spread and subject to so many checks that the EU's damn near as far from autocratic as an organisation can possibly be. From now on I'm just going to be condescending and post the retarded cartman in a bike helmet picture every time you make a post in here betraying exactly how little reading up you've done on the subject.
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.