Soft Touch Britain

[The Doctor]

Has anybody heard of Dysgenics?

Happening to society (albeit slowly)

Dysgenics (also known as cacogenics) is the study of factors producing the accumulation and perpetuation of defective or disadvantageous genes and traits in offspring of a particular population or species.

Please point out the genetic basis for your thinly veiled xenophobia, or shut the fuck up and stop throwing around words you don't actually know the meaning of.

[MooseBreath]

Dysgenics (also known as cacogenics) is the study of factors producing the accumulation and perpetuation of defective or disadvantageous genes and traits in offspring of a particular population or species.

Please point out the genetic basis for your thinly veiled xenophobia, or shut the **** up and stop throwing around words you don't actually know the meaning of.

...and traits...

[The Doctor]

...and traits...

I didn't particularly intend to explain the whole traits = phenotypes shit, but ah well - dysgenics is entirely to do with genetics (dsy - negative, genics - relating to genes), traits in this sense would mean phenotypes, the expression of an organisms genotype - rooted well within genetics...

[Rincewind]

clearly a sign the benefits system isnt working/needs to be looked at to weed out the frauds....tho I think its wrong that careers get just £61 a week.

or maybe wage structure is wrong or the fact that jobs are hard to come by. There is a huge amount of benefits not being claimed that people do not know they are entitle to by law. I don't know if I am claiming all what I can but many do because either they have been doing it for years or they have been helped to find out.

[Babylon]

If everyone thinks that being on JSA is such a gift, quit your job and live the high life.

You don't get it if you quit.

Or if you've saved a few quid for a rainy day. But if you are running up thousands in debt on credit cards on Armani clothes and holidays, it's absolutely fine and you can have it.

[Rincewind]

If you don't mind having debts for the rest of your life and a low credit level that's fine. Also if you are on JSA you cannot get a credit card or loans. (off banks)

[Babylon]

If you don't mind having debts for the rest of your life and a low credit level that's fine. Also if you are on JSA you cannot get a credit card or loans. (off banks)

Doesn't sound like this woman has a problem with cards or the debt when the benefits pay off the minimum payment each month.

[Rincewind]

I wouldn't want to have credit card debt for the rest of my life regardless of holidays etc.

[The People's Hero]

I wouldn't want to have credit card debt for the rest of my life regardless of holidays etc.

What if the taxpayer was effectively paying it off for you, ironically forcing them to rely on credit cards just to live?

[Rincewind]

Still no. From what Babylon said only the minimum is paid so you would still have a massive debt. Also how long is it paid for? Is it repayable? What are the conditions? What is the whole story?

[The People's Hero]

Still no. From what Babylon said only the minimum is paid so you would still have a massive debt. Also how long is it paid for? Is it repayable? What are the conditions? What is the whole story?

You're asking me for specifics on a hypothetical case that doesn't exist?

Errr... Ok. It's standard credit card debt. 17.9% apr. balance £4,628.06

Standard credit card terms and conditions

How are these specifics relevant?

Does the level of debt change your opinion on whether tax payers should service it?

[Guest BlueBrett]

Yes, she's a leech. Yes, she comes across as a complete twat. The fact still remains she's very much in the minority amongst Eastern European immigrants in terms of her attitude to work and benefits.

This is little more than The Sun picking out a near one-off to feed into their anti-immigrant agenda

I take your point that this may well be a rare example and The Sun are doubtlessly motivated to print items that corroborate their tone but that isn't really the story. The very fact that the system allows for this kind of thing if you give a certain combination of answers to the Job Centre's questions is the issue and if it strikes a considerable number of people as unfair then it is right for the papers to bring this kind of thing to the public's attention. That's the only way these anomalies, loopholes, systemic injustices or whatever you want to call them will be corrected. Obviously various different vested interests will try to tack on additional 'morals of the story' but that's just an inevitable subplot that the rational can choose to ignore.

[Guest Bilo]

The fact that people who don't want to work can find a myriad of loopholes to avoid doing so is hardly news though. Various governments have tried and failed to weed out scroungers, but unfortunately some of these initiatives end up targeting people who genuinely can't find employment.

The fact is that people like this woman are career scroungers, their 'job' is to know all of the loopholes, kinks and technicalities of the system. It's how they make a living. It's been going for as long as we've had a welfare state and has steadily grown, especially in a time where now competition for jobs is at its height.

Should something be done about it? Absolutely it should, lazy parasites like this woman tar benefit claimants across Britain with the same brush but it's going to take a very long time and some very unpopular measures to force change.

[Parafox]

The way the Sun reports these things is aimed at stoking people's outrage with it's rhetoric. It's a nasty paper.

It all sounds outrageous and it may well be. It's the successive governments that have created this scenario, not the woman from Lithuania. You may feel it IS unfair on the "righteous" taxpayer but you can't stone her. If she wasn't entitled to claim, she wouldn't get the money. It's the benefit system that creates this disparity.

[Parafox]

And I agree with Bilo, above,

[The Year Of The Fox]

The way the Sun reports these things is aimed at stoking people's outrage with it's rhetoric. It's a nasty paper.

It all sounds outrageous and it may well be. It's the successive governments that have created this scenario, not the woman from Lithuania. You may feel it IS unfair on the "righteous" taxpayer but you can't stone her. If she wasn't entitled to claim, she wouldn't get the money. It's the benefit system that creates this disparity.

No, you can't blame someone for grabbing what's offered to them. But I do blame her for bragging about it and not having the get up and go and self respect to get off benefits

[Parafox]

No, you can't blame someone for grabbing what's offered to them. But I do blame her for bragging about it and not having the get up and go and self respect to get off benefits

And so do I. I think she is lazy and a freeloader. She has no self respect.

I do worry about the next few years when the Romanians and Bulgarians descend on us.

[Guest Bilo]

No, you can't blame someone for grabbing what's offered to them. But I do blame her for bragging about it and not having the get up and go and self respect to get off benefits

She'd only be boasting to her idiot friends in the dole queue like thousands of others n'er do wells if not for The Sun falling over themselves to report it.

[ADK]

Shes probably being paid a tidy sum to "brag about it" by the sun.

[Webbo]

If it's true why shouldn't a paper report anything?I guarantee that the Mirror tomorrow will run a story about somebody starving to death because of savage/cruel/inhuman Tory benefit cuts and nobody will say they don't have a right to report it.

We've all read the story and come to our own conclusions. Don't assume that you(that's any of you) are the only person who's is clever enough to decide what's right and wrong.

[Guest Bilo]

If it's true why shouldn't a paper report anything?I guarantee that the Mirror tomorrow will run a story about somebody starving to death because of savage/cruel/inhuman Tory benefit cuts and nobody will say they don't have a right to report it.

We've all read the story and come to our own conclusions. Don't assume that you(that's any of you) are the only person who's is clever enough to decide what's right and wrong.

That wouldn't be as incendiary as this though. Stories like this serve to vilify the unemployed and single parents, which to me isn't ethical.

Holding a government to account for its inability or unwillingness to care for the most vulnerable members of society doesn't have the same level of nastiness, even if The Mirror's status as a pseudo-left Labour fanzine is intolerable.

[Rincewind]

You're asking me for specifics on a hypothetical case that doesn't exist?

Errr... Ok. It's standard credit card debt. 17.9% apr. balance £4,628.06

Standard credit card terms and conditions

How are these specifics relevant?

Does the level of debt change your opinion on whether tax payers should service it?

Sorry I was not asking for specifics off you. I was asking how long the debt would be paid for the claimant. Are there rules regarding this? We do not know because all we have seen is the taxpayer pays the debt. There may come a time when the one owing is told no more then they are in danger of owing thousands of pounds and could lose their home and find yhemselves homeless This is why I said I would not do it. There are many people close to this position. I cannot get a credit card now because I do not have a wage coming in. Would a debt off a loan shark be paid for me?

[Guest BlueBrett]

It all sounds outrageous and it may well be. It's the successive governments that have created this scenario, not the woman from Lithuania. You may feel it IS unfair on the "righteous" taxpayer but you can't stone her. If she wasn't entitled to claim, she wouldn't get the money. It's the benefit system that creates this disparity.

Well that's my point really. It's obviously the system that is at fault but it takes someone to point out the most infuriating anomalies to create the will for policy makes to really think about the problems and devise solutions that are likely to be complex and politically difficult.

[Webbo]

That wouldn't be as incendiary as this though. Stories like this serve to vilify the unemployed and single parents, which to me isn't ethical.

Holding a government to account for its inability or unwillingness to care for the most vulnerable members of society doesn't have the same level of nastiness, even if The Mirror's status as a pseudo-left Labour fanzine is intolerable.

You could say the Mirror was vilifying the Govt, well off people, bankers while the Sun is holding to account the benefit system and people who exploit it. We all know what the papers are like, you pays your money and takes your choice.

[The Quick Brown Fox]

I think that people like her should be given vouchers not cash, that way she can't have fancy holidays or designer clothes. Vouchers for bread, milk and other essentials.

The system is a joke and you can't blame people for using it. I believe using vouchers would stop people just buying alcohol, ciggiesand the like. This would be a kick up the arse to get a job if they want nights out and holidays etc.