Would you vote for a new political party?

[Rincewind]

I think uou'd have to read it all to understand what was said.

[Guest MattP]

I think uou'd have to read it all to understand what was said.

 

Well surely it doesn't matter what else was said as a silly comment like that would invalidate his opinion on anything else. (according to his own logic of course).

[Rincewind]

It was a political satirist that wrote the column.Mark Steel The humour was lost in translation My fault< Thought people would get the gist of it. The full article is here.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/godfrey-bloom-was-repeatedly-asked-if-his-remarks-were-offensive--but-isnt-that-charge-a-bit-weak-8752152.html

 

He also insisted it was unfair to dwell on the bongo issue, as he had an important point to make about overseas aid. But if you say something daft in one sentence, you can’t expect to be taken seriously in the next. If Stephen Hawking started his book by saying, “I was down Ealing the other day – like bloody Calcutta, it was, Pakistanis everywhere,†he couldn’t have complained if no one trusted his opinions about light and time.

 

But the strongest part of Godfrey Bloom’s defence was that his views were those “of the common manâ€, in particular those held “in the cricket clubâ€. So I suggest he tries talking about Bongo-Bongo Land in a variety of cricket clubs, starting with a team of West Indies veterans, including Curtly Ambrose, Viv Richards and Joel Garner. If you’re not familiar, look them up on Google Images, and I think you’ll agree that should settle it.

[Guest MattP]

Sorry, I mean how would you manage not to get it's actually an column from a political comedian from this.

 

Good letter in the Independant today. Basically it said if he was not being seious about the first part how can he be taken serious on the rest.

There was more but can't remember it all.

 

 

It was a political satirist that wrote the column.Mark Steel The humour was lost in translation My fault< Thought people would get the gist of it. The full article is here.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/godfrey-bloom-was-repeatedly-asked-if-his-remarks-were-offensive--but-isnt-that-charge-a-bit-weak-8752152.html

 

He also insisted it was unfair to dwell on the bongo issue, as he had an important point to make about overseas aid. But if you say something daft in one sentence, you can’t expect to be taken seriously in the next. If Stephen Hawking started his book by saying, “I was down Ealing the other day – like bloody Calcutta, it was, Pakistanis everywhere,†he couldn’t have complained if no one trusted his opinions about light and time.

 

But the strongest part of Godfrey Bloom’s defence was that his views were those “of the common manâ€, in particular those held “in the cricket clubâ€. So I suggest he tries talking about Bongo-Bongo Land in a variety of cricket clubs, starting with a team of West Indies veterans, including Curtly Ambrose, Viv Richards and Joel Garner. If you’re not familiar, look them up on Google Images, and I think you’ll agree that should settle it.

 

Well I'll speak to around 40-50 people this weekend.

 

As for the Hawking point, wouldn't that show how daft society was if they dismissed a geniuses views because he said something they didn't agree with?

 

I don't understand the logic with West Indians, surely when he says the common man regarding to overseas aid he means English people in English Cricket clubs, that point would have been better made if you used Chris Lewis, Devon Malcolm and Gladstone Small. (If you’re not familiar, look them up on Google Images, and I think you’ll agree that should settle it)

 

The Cricket Club I played for would probably laugh at Bongo Bongo land as well, I was one of two white players for the main side I played for, we had a black bloke and the rest were Indians, I was called the Ice Man and the darkest Asian played was nicknamed "Niggs" by the whole squad. I wouldnt dare put what the black guy was called on here (ok I will, "chains"), that was ten years back but I'm sure you get the point.

 

What's the opinion down your local cricket club? Let's face it some of the nicknames and sledging you hear on the pitch would be considered disgusting by mainstream society.

[theessexfox]

Sorry, I mean how would you manage not to get it's actually an column from a political comedian from this.

 

 

 

 

Well I'll speak to around 40-50 people this weekend.

 

As for the Hawking point, wouldn't that show how daft society was if they dismissed a geniuses views because he said something they didn't agree with?

 

I don't understand the logic with West Indians, surely when he says the common man regarding to overseas aid he means English people in English Cricket clubs, that point would have been better made if you used Chris Lewis, Devon Malcolm and Gladstone Small. (If you’re not familiar, look them up on Google Images, and I think you’ll agree that should settle it)

 

The Cricket Club I played for would probably laugh at Bongo Bongo land as well, I was one of two white players for the main side I played for, we had a black bloke and the rest were Indians, I was called the Ice Man and the darkest Asian played was nicknamed "Niggs" by the whole squad. I wouldnt dare put what the black guy was called on here (ok I will, "chains"), that was ten years back but I'm sure you get the point.

 

What's the opinion down your local cricket club? Let's face it some of the nicknames and sledging you hear on the pitch would be considered disgusting by mainstream society.

Literally nothing like that where I play, though the teams are usually mostly whites, with a few Asians. 

[Guest MattP]

Literally nothing like that where I play, though the teams are usually mostly whites, with a few Asians.

Oh it was rare. No white team I've played for would dare with such things.

Asian sides seem to be a lot looser when it comes to close to the bone sledging and pisstaking revolving around skin colour.

[LJS]

The argument about the EU being undemocratic is overblown. It could certainly be better at being a more democratic entity but it is no worse at it than any of its member states.

People always make daft arguments about people like van Rompuy being unelected, which simply isn't true. He is head of the European Council which is made up of heads of state and they elect him to the role. Nobody in this country outside of Witney has ever voted for David Cameron, so I really don't see the difference. It is our elected national leaders, by the way, who vote to make any decisions on further integration. Just like our elected MPs vote on legislation in Westminster. I suspect much of the opposition to the EU comes because some foreigners get to make decisions.

All new EU legislation is proposed by the European Commission which is made up of people nominated by our elected governments. Legislation can only be proposed if it is in line with EU treaties which have all been agreed and signed by our elected governments. These laws are enacted jointly by the Council of the European Union (which consists of our elected government ministers) and the European Parliament (whose members we elect directly). If we want the European Parliament to be more democratic then perhaps more of us should get off our arses and vote in European Elections. Not being interested in Europe or being anti-EU is no excuse. You could always vote for somebody who reflects your views. Finally, the European Court of Justice works to ensure that individuals, organisations and governments abide by the terms of the treaties (agreed by our democratically elected governments, remember). The judges of the ECJ are, you guessed it, appointed by the democratically elected governments of member states.

There are no 'faceless Eurocrats' making decisions on which we have no say.

[Webbo]

When you vote for a party in a general election you are aware of who the leader is so you know who will be PM if the party you vote for wins.

 

The labour nominated foreign affairs commissioner(who has never stood for election anywhere) is still in office even though Labour were voted out.

 

As for "I suspect much of the opposition to the EU comes because some foreigners get to make decisions." so what? Ireland had a revolution because they didn't want to be ruled by us, does that make them nasty xenophobes? What's wrong with wanting to run your own country?

[LJS]

When you vote for a party in a general election you are aware of who the leader is so you know who will be PM if the party you vote for wins.The labour nominated foreign affairs commissioner(who has never stood for election anywhere) is still in office even though Labour were voted out.

As for "I suspect much of the opposition to the EU comes because some foreigners get to make decisions." so what? Ireland had a revolution because they didn't want to be ruled by us, does that make them nasty xenophobes? What's wrong with wanting to run your own country?

I didn't say there was anything wrong with it. But people don't tend to use that argument, they tend to hide behind rubbish about the whole thing being undemocratic, which it just isn't. There is a little bit of difference between the Ireland example and the EU though, isn't there? In that Ireland was being dictated to by us with no democratic mandate and that the same can't be said for the EU's relationship with its member states.Personally I couldn't give a toss whether the people making decisions are British of not. If they're elected and the decisions they're making are the correct ones (clearly this depends on your viewpoint) then I'm happy enough.

Cathy Ashton was nominated by Labour but elected by the Council. Her term ends in 2014. That it was Labour who nominated her doesn't matter. It wasn't Labour who elected her. I'd have it as a directly elected post myself and if people didn't turn out for the vote they'd only have themselves to blame of we ended up with a duff candidate. In any case, she is simply a diplomat. How many of our British diplomats have you elected?

[Webbo]

I didn't say there was anything wrong with it. But people don't tend to use that argument, they tend to hide behind rubbish about the whole thing being undemocratic, which it just isn't. There is a little bit of difference between the Ireland example and the EU though, isn't there? In that Ireland was being dictated to by us with no democratic mandate and that the same can't be said for the EU's relationship with its member states.Personally I couldn't give a toss whether the people making decisions are British of not. If they're elected and the decisions they're making are the correct ones (clearly this depends on your viewpoint) then I'm happy enough.

Cathy Ashton was nominated by Labour but elected by the Council. Her term ends in 2014. That it was Labour who nominated her doesn't matter. It wasn't Labour who elected her. I'd have it as a directly elected post myself and if people didn't turn out for the vote they'd only have themselves to blame of we ended up with a duff candidate. In any case, she is simply a diplomat. How many of our British diplomats have you elected?

The foreign secretary?

[LJS]

The foreign secretary?

You haven't. Unless you are in William Hague's constituency. And the PM can sack Hague any time he likes and appoint somebody you've never heard of. The FS is the most senior diplomat in name only anyway. It's a political position, not a diplomatic one. We have trained diplomats for that.

[ADK]

Another problem is that people whinge about unelected positions but when such positions are elected democratically people whinge about it and don't bother to vote.

[Webbo]

You haven't. Unless you are in William Hague's constituency. And the PM can sack Hague any time he likes and appoint somebody you've never heard of. The FS is the most senior diplomat in name only anyway. It's a political position, not a diplomatic one. We have trained diplomats for that.

I voted for the party he represents and if they did something that upset me enough I could vote against that party.

[LJS]

I voted for the party he represents and if they did something that upset me enough I could vote against that party.

And if you voted for the Tories at the last election you voted for a party who can vote against Ashton when her term of office ends next year. If they support her next year then you can always vote for somebody else next time.

I agree, by the way, that she was a crap appointment. She is strongly disliked within the EU as well. As somebody who is pro-EU (with reservations - there are plenty of good arguments against it and I respect them fully) I would have preferred somebody more high profile. And presumably as somebody not in favour of the EU you'd prefer the role not to exist at all. That's entirely reasonable. I just happen to think you're wrong.

[ADK]

Just out of interest Webbo, what are your views on the House of Lords?

[Webbo]

I'm not totally opposed to the EU if Cameron can genuinely renegotiate our membership I'd vote to stay in. I'm quite happy to be part of the trading block.What I object to is the creation of a United States of Europe by stealth. There's nothing wrong with wanting that as long as you do it open and honestly and as long as we get a vote on it. 

[Webbo]

Just out of interest Webbo, what are your views on the House of Lords?

Can't defend it in principle although in practice it does a fair job.

[LJS]

I'm not totally opposed to the EU if Cameron can genuinely renegotiate our membership I'd vote to stay in. I'm quite happy to be part of the trading block.What I object to is the creation of a United States of Europe by stealth. There's nothing wrong with wanting that as long as you do it open and honestly and as long as we get a vote on it.

Agree completely. On Cameron and the renegotiation, I don't think he'll get one and I think he knows it. I don't think a referendum will come because I don't think the Tories will win a majority. They wouldn't get it through as a minority government and the Lib Dems would only go for it in coalition if they could get something like PR passed without a referendum. I can't see that flying.

I don't think a referendum is necessary. We had one in the 70s and even back then those in power in the EC were making no secret of what they wanted the community to become. The single currency was initially slated for 1980 but economic problems delayed it. Even so, I'm happy for any opportunity for people to vote on big issue so I certainly don't object to one being held. In the event I think people will vote to stay in.

Current opinion polls are similar to those in the 70s before the EC vote. More opposed than for with lots of 'don't know/don't cares'. People don't care about EU membership. It consistently polls very low when people are asked what is important to them. It is given a disproportionate amount of coverage in the media in that context. If there is a referendum all three main party leaders will vote to stay in. The majority of big business leaders will campaign to stay in. When people aren't passionate about a subject en masse they tend to defer to those they believe (rightly or wrongly) to be experts. I think that's what would happen in the event of a referendum.

[purpleronnie]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2391182/UKIP-candidates-face-psychometric-testing-selection--Godfrey-Bloom-passed.html

 

And not before time

 

[lavrentis]

I think Ronnie is a closet Ukip supporter.

[Guest MattP]

Glad he got through.

 

UKIP became popular because of politicians who aren't afraid to say what they think and go close to the bone, shows their selection criteria is working.

[Captain...]

Glad he got through.

UKIP became popular because of politicians who aren't afraid to say what they think and go close to the bone, shows their selection criteria is working.

UKIP's 'popularity' is nothing more than a reflection on the sorry shambles that the main parties have become. I an pretty certain they will do much worse than expected when it comes to the general election. It would be interesting to see if they get equal billing with the lib dems should we have more televised debates.

[Rincewind]

I agree with the Captain. I need to say no more.

[Guest MattP]

So do I.

Very possible UKIP will win the European elections though next year.

They had better, I've got a big bet on.

[Rincewind]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/ukip-faces-renewed-accusations-of-sexism-as-stuart-wheeler-claims-women-are-not-as-competitive-as-men-8763570.html