Would you vote for a new political party?

[Rincewind]

I would certainly vote for a new political it party if t represented my views better than any of the existing lot.

 

And anyone that doesn't is just making a mockery of the political system.

Sometimes I think politicians make a mockery of the political system. I vote by post which reduces my urge for apathy.

[Guest]

We need proportional representation so that votes for small parties actually mean something on a national level?

[The Doctor]

Ah, honesty in politics - the naivety of youth...

Anyway - if they matched up to my ideology then yes, until then it's the MRLP for me, been drinking with their leader - great bloke.

[Webbo]

They're not unelected.

Granted, Europe at the moment is a mess and it's parliament etc need to be reformed but if it wasn't for Europe you wouldn't have substantial paid holidays, you wouldn't have the working time directive, many parts of the human rights act are huge positives for ordinary people (just because you only hear it talked about in terms of Abu Hamza doesn't detract from the fact the state can't interfere with you because of those same rules).

 

We've had paid holidays long before we were in the EU. As for the other laws if we want them there's nothing stopping us passing them ourselves.

[MooseBreath]

Has anyone ever actually not opted out of the working time directive? I've always assumed that if you do you're basically marked as a lazy cvnt who is not willing to put a shift in when required.

[Guest]

I tend to see Europe as a body that stops our leaders removing all our rights for their privileged corporate friends

[Webbo]

I tend to see Europe as a body that stops our leaders removing all our rights for their privileged corporate friends

You don't think there are any corporations making good money out of the EU then?

[Carl the Llama]

I tend to see Europe as a body that stops our leaders removing all our rights for their privileged corporate friends

You don't want to be vocally pro-EU on here, bud.  The UKIP zombies are taking over and they won't research or be reasoned with, it's a winning formula.

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

UKIP.

This.

 

I would consider voting for a centre party, along the same lines as the old Social Democrats.

[purpleronnie]

You don't want to be vocally pro-EU on here, bud.  The UKIP zombies are taking over and they won't research or be reasoned with, it's a winning formula.

Yep, just look who posted above me.

 

[Webbo]

You don't want to be vocally pro-EU on here, bud.  The UKIP zombies are taking over and they won't research or be reasoned with, it's a winning formula.

When you say "won't be reasoned with" do you mean won't agree with you?

[Guest]

When you say "won't be reasoned with" do you mean won't agree with you?

No, I assume he means that reason isn't allowed for in the anti-Europe argument.

Europe is treated the same way as the English football team. When we watch England the whole country go on about heart and effort and bravery. Other countries talk of technique and creativity. They win matches.

With Europe the anti-Europe lobby talk about the two or three reasons for how wonderful our self-determined yet lonely future will be they completely ignore all the positives and counter arguments. Whatever statistic they see, or whatever arguments are used, it simply gets reduced to immigration.

[Fox92]

For me the problem is people that don't vote.

If we had 90+% turnout of people spoiling their ballots instead of not bothering maybe the politicians would sit up and take note.

Got to admit I have never voted (although I've only been eligible a couple of years obviously). Politics doesn't interest me, and although I constantly moan about the government, I know most of them are all the same anyway and do fvck all once they get in.

[Webbo]

No, I assume he means that reason isn't allowed for in the anti-Europe argument.

Europe is treated the same way as the English football team. When we watch England the whole country go on about heart and effort and bravery. Other countries talk of technique and creativity. They win matches.

With Europe the anti-Europe lobby talk about the two or three reasons for how wonderful our self-determined yet lonely future will be they completely ignore all the positives and counter arguments. Whatever statistic they see, or whatever arguments are used, it simply gets reduced to immigration.

It's not just about immigration, in fact for me that's a very minor part. It's about unelected bureaucrats leading us in a direction we can't vote against. It's about creating a United States of Europe without giving us a say in it. It's about ignoring the results of referenda in countries where they hold them if they don't get the result they want.

 

In theory there are economic advantages but in fact Europe is falling behind economically.

[Guest]

It's not just about immigration, in fact for me that's a very minor part. It's about unelected bureaucrats leading us in a direction we can't vote against. It's about creating a United States of Europe without giving us a say in it. It's about ignoring the results of referenda in countries where they hold them if they don't get the result they want.

 

In theory there are economic advantages but in fact Europe is falling behind economically.

Granted, for me the issue of democracy is a big issue with Europe. This is something that they are well aware of though and recently conversations have been happening around the issue. To be honest, I'm minded to think that a United States of Europe is exactly what the aim should be. I know that isn't a popular argument but to me it's obvious.

If Europe were one nation then debts would no longer exist between European countries. There would be no borders so we could start to think rationally about benefits of Europe. If we were one nation we would have one benefit system the same for all. If we were one nation we would move to the South of France as easily as Cumbria. Honestly, why are we so wedded to living in a country that never sees the sun when we have free reign over a continent? Our old traditions would still exist in the same way as regional traditions exist in the UK. Our great institutions could be shared with the rest of the new nation and we would finally have proper democracy in Europe as this couldn't work without a directly elected president. If we actually led the debate from the centre rather than one leg in and one out we might find we rather like the brave new world. It'll happen if we're there or not. 

 

If we were one nation it would be democratic as even politicians realise to do otherwise would risk another war in Europe. 

 

Maybe this is idealism but it's better than years of arguments over in/out and then finding once we're out that we're suddenly very alone in the world. 

[Harry - LCFC]

It's not just about immigration, in fact for me that's a very minor part. It's about unelected bureaucrats leading us in a direction we can't vote against. It's about creating a United States of Europe without giving us a say in it. It's about ignoring the results of referenda in countries where they hold them if they don't get the result they want.

 

In theory there are economic advantages but in fact Europe is falling behind economically.

 

This concerns me too, I'd like to see more power restored to us and not put in the hands of another. I'd also agree that immigration is less of a worry particularly as the inward flow appears to be falling now.

 

Hopefully Cameron will be able to negotiate some of those powers back from the EU as part of this 'changing relationship' he, and most of the country it would seem, want to see come about. If he's unsuccesful I think it's very possible that the country will vote 'yes' to leaving the EU in the referendum (if the Conservatives are re-elected that is).

[MooseBreath]

Granted, for me the issue of democracy is a big issue with Europe. This is something that they are well aware of though and recently conversations have been happening around the issue. To be honest, I'm minded to think that a United States of Europe is exactly what the aim should be. I know that isn't a popular argument but to me it's obvious.

If Europe were one nation then debts would no longer exist between European countries. There would be no borders so we could start to think rationally about benefits of Europe. If we were one nation we would have one benefit system the same for all. If we were one nation we would move to the South of France as easily as Cumbria. Honestly, why are we so wedded to living in a country that never sees the sun when we have free reign over a continent? Our old traditions would still exist in the same way as regional traditions exist in the UK. Our great institutions could be shared with the rest of the new nation and we would finally have proper democracy in Europe as this couldn't work without a directly elected president. If we actually led the debate from the centre rather than one leg in and one out we might find we rather like the brave new world. It'll happen if we're there or not.

If we were one nation it would be democratic as even politicians realise to do otherwise would risk another war in Europe.

Maybe this is idealism but it's better than years of arguments over in/out and then finding once we're out that we're suddenly very alone in the world.

Debts no longer existing would certainly benefit the more feckless countries within the union. Infact the whole thing would be great for the scroungers and the workshy on both an individual and national level. It would simply mean hard working British citizens would have to pay even more in tax to fund the inadequacies of several million more lazy cvnts.

[Stadt]

I wish Politicians were voted in because they're good at politics rather than being good at avoiding their failures.

[Guest]

Debts no longer existing would certainly benefit the more feckless countries within the union. Infact the whole thing would be great for the scroungers and the workshy on both an individual and national level. It would simply mean hard working British citizens would have to pay even more in tax to fund the inadequacies of several million more lazy cvnts.

This is precisely what I mean about the way the anti-Europe argument is essentially a made up construct that ignores all rhyme and reason.

Presumably you mean the 'workshy' Poles that everybody complained were coming here stealing 'our' jobs? Or the Germans who have no idea at all how to build an economy based on employment and growth. No, you mean the other countries which you know nothing about but because you've heard Greek civil servant have an earlier retirement age than ours the only possible conclusion is that they're all after our money!

The point of a union would be that everybody would have the same taxes, chances, geographical limits and rules. No different to now except Europe doesn't have the same binge drinking lad/laddettes we have here so we might actually have to buck our ideas up and become cultured.

 

Or we could do it your way, leave Europe, lose a special trading position with them and watch our economy go down the drain as a united Europe becomes more and more important on the world stage. You won't have to worry about benefits then - we won't have the money to pay you any when jobs have all gone.

[Webbo]

 

 

Or we could do it your way, leave Europe, lose a special trading position with them and watch our economy go down the drain as a united Europe becomes more and more important on the world stage. You won't have to worry about benefits then - we won't have the money to pay you any when jobs have all gone.

Yeah right .

 

This new political party you want us to vote for? Presumably you'd expect it to keep us in the EU same as now and implement and make into law all the directives that the EU tells us to same as now? How exactly would it be different?

[Zingari]

Would I vote for a new party ? probably , but I wouldn't really expect to see any great  changes . It would be the usual tinkering with the works and peripheral stuff .

 

I go through the ritual of voting every time even though i know that the elected government is merely a puppet regime .

They are a bit like the captain of a ship , ostensibly  in charge and have some authority and personal prestige and influence.

 

But they they have no say when and where the ship is going. 

[MooseBreath]

This is precisely what I mean about the way the anti-Europe argument is essentially a made up construct that ignores all rhyme and reason.

Presumably you mean the 'workshy' Poles that everybody complained were coming here stealing 'our' jobs? Or the Germans who have no idea at all how to build an economy based on employment and growth. No, you mean the other countries which you know nothing about but because you've heard Greek civil servant have an earlier retirement age than ours the only possible conclusion is that they're all after our money!

The point of a union would be that everybody would have the same taxes, chances, geographical limits and rules. No different to now except Europe doesn't have the same binge drinking lad/laddettes we have here so we might actually have to buck our ideas up and become cultured.

Or we could do it your way, leave Europe, lose a special trading position with them and watch our economy go down the drain as a united Europe becomes more and more important on the world stage. You won't have to worry about benefits then - we won't have the money to pay you any when jobs have all gone.

The only person ignoring all rhyme and reason around here is you. If you don't understand how marrying an economically strong country such as the UK or Germany with a very weak economy is bad for the stronger economy then you need to stfu because you're king of all dumb cvnts.

As for your argument around lads and ladettes having to become more cultured, well that's the definition of clutching at straws right there and I think you know it.

[Carl the Llama]

The only person ignoring all rhyme and reason around here is you. If you don't understand how marrying an economically strong country such as the UK or Germany with a very weak economy is bad for the stronger economy then you need to stfu because you're king of all dumb cvnts.

As for your argument around lads and ladettes having to become more cultured, well that's the definition of clutching at straws right there and I think you know it.

That is all.

[MooseBreath]

The UK has a relatively strong economy.

[Rincewind]