The Good News thread, local jobs, economy etc

[MooseBreath]

yes it could be , but why was the increase described as "unexpected" then ? surely if it's to do with seasonal adjustment , it's not unexpected is it ?

and just how it's being touted by some as a "massive fall in unemployment" seems incredible .

edit;

the point i'm really trying to make is the obvious spin that's being worked here

How else but a "massive fall" can you describe well over a hundred thousand people no longer unemployed?

[MooseBreath]

Not according to the ONS for May 2010

Labour market statistics

May 2010

Date: 12 May 2010

Coverage: United Kingdom Theme: Labour Market

For January to March 2010:

The employment rate was 72.0 per cent and there were 28.83 million employed people.

The unemployment rate was 8.0 per cent and there were 2.51 million unemployed people.

The inactivity rate was 21.5 per cent and there were 8.17 million working age inactive people.

Total pay (including bonuses) rose by 4.0 per cent on a year earlier.

Regular pay (excluding bonuses) rose by 1.9 per cent on a year earlier.

What I can't figure out is how over a million more people have been employed yet the total unemployed hasn't changed by more than 150,000 over this period unless the population has increased but not working. Something is not jiving here.

Edit, actually that statistics was published in May so was for the early part of 2010, the following period the unemployment number was 7.8% which is when the Cameron ministry took over. So in actual fact to compare their 0.6% drop to the German or US number isn't that impressive, maybe I should compare it to the French if that makes us happier.

BTW I am as much in favour of conservative policies as most like minded people. Zingy thinks I'm just to the right of Attila The Hun.

I just like the facts to be as real as I can understand them without spouting party dogma.

You're right I was looking at 2012 to 2014, where the UK rate has fallen far faster then Germany. By like for like I meant from the recent peak to now in the same way as your german stats are presented.

[Zingari]

How else but a "massive fall" can you describe well over a hundred thousand people no longer unemployed?

i notice you say they are "no longer unemployed" , rather than now in full time employment , but however ,   I'd called a it massive fall in unemployment when there was a significantly smaller percentage of the population unemployed , not a slightly bigger one.however it may be spun .

[MooseBreath]

i notice you say they are "no longer unemployed" , rather than now in full time employment , but however , I'd called a it massive fall in unemployment when there was a significantly smaller percentage of the population unemployed , not a slightly bigger one.however it may be spun .

A fall in the number of people unemployed is a fall in the number of people unemployed. No spin on that statement. Only when you start adding in other variables such as the overall pool of employable people can you spin it, and you're the one doing that not me.

[Zingari]

A fall in the number of people unemployed is a fall in the number of people unemployed. No spin on that statement. Only when you start adding in other variables such as the overall pool of employable people can you spin it, and you're the one doing that not me.

i'm not spinning anything 

i'm trying to keep pointing out to you that in some sections of the media it's being reported as a "fall in unemployment" and in others its being reported as "a suprising rise in unemployment" .

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/02/19/uk-britain-jobs-idUKBREA1I0HI20140219

 

How is it me doing that ? I really don't have that sort of power 

Edited 19 February 2014 by Zingari

[Rincewind]

It is how you calculate the figures. If those being sanctioned, part time and zero hour contracts taken off the unemployment figures will go down.

Did anyone know about the demo outside the ATOS assessment centre today? Was it reported on as there were similar demos across the UK.

[Smudge]

No  I don't

 

 

 

i think you're well to the right of him

 

 

seriously though , you're right , it doesn't seem to add up  at all  

Having spent far too long looking at the situation, I suspect that a combination of immigration and people coming out of long term unemployment has skewed the figures, the latter being about 400,000. There is no doubt that 1.32 million new jobs have been created but that hasn't reduced the overall unemployment figures by much at all.

Still it's good news that a million plus jobs have been created since May 2010

Edited 19 February 2014 by Smudge

[Rincewind]

 

There was one man who was blind and agoraphobic deemed fit for work who had his benefits stopped. He could not stand the shame of living on next to nothing and committed suicide. There was also the wheelchair bound woman who was encouraged by friends to attempt to walk. She used a neighbours child's pushchair to Steady herself. She was reported and had her benefits stopped.

Last year there were 10,600 deaths of disabled people within 6 weeks of being deemed fit to work according to government figures. After that they stopped counting.

Another claimant was deemed fit despite having a serious heart condition. He took a job at a garage and while there suffered 2 heart attacks. He was still  passed fit by ATOS even though they were advised not to. The man had another heart attack from which he died leaving a widow and four children. He was in his forties.

.

[absolutelegend]

It is how you calculate the figures. If those being sanctioned, part time and zero hour contracts taken off the unemployment figures will go down.

Did anyone know about the demo outside the ATOS assessment centre today? Was it reported on as there were similar demos across the UK.

 

I heard about it.  laughable really.  everybody in the country knows its too easy to claim disability at the mo so anything to make it more difficult is bound to be moaned about by those impacted.

[Rincewind]

Obviously you did not attend it.

[absolutelegend]

just watched that video.  hardly a big turn out, except some unite members who should have been at work...but weren't.

not really news / discussion worthy imo.

Edited 19 February 2014 by absolutelegend

[Alf Bentley]

How else but a "massive fall" can you describe well over a hundred thousand people no longer unemployed?

 

You're right I was looking at 2012 to 2014, where the UK rate has fallen far faster then Germany. By like for like I meant from the recent peak to now in the same way as your german stats are presented.

 

Let's put all these figures together....

Germany: 7.6% (2010) -> 5.6% (2012) -> 5.1% (2014)

UK:          8.0% (2010) -> 9.0% (2012) -> 7.2% (2014)

 

One conclusion might be that there's been a "massive fall" in UK unemployment since 2012 ("significant", not "massive" I'd say).

Other conclusions might be:

1) There was a large rise in UK unemployment at the same time as German unemployment saw a large fall (2010-12)

2) German unemployment has fallen by 2.5% in the past 4 years, whereas UK unemployment is only down 0.8%

3) The disparity between German unemployment and British unemployment has increased under the Tory/LD government.

 

Before you blame profligate Labour, unemployment fell for a couple of quarters in 2010, when we seemed to be slowly recovering from the financial crash....as the Germans continued to do. Of course, the 2 countries have very different economies, Germany being export-oriented with a strong manufacturing base, whereas the UK is a net importer and focuses on financial services. Also, Tories would claim that we'll see long-term benefits from austerity economics....if so, neither unemployment nor living standards are among them yet.

 

To clarify the "has unemployment risen or fallen?" confusion...

Unless I'm misunderstanding something:

- July/Aug/Sept: 7.6%

- Sept/Oct/Nov: 7.1%

- Oct/Nov/Dec: 7.2%

As I understand it, this simply means that unemployment in December was higher than in September (Oct/Nov are included in both the 7.1% and the 7.2% figures). This is rather surprising. It may just be a 1-month blip, which is why the more sensible commentators are opting to compare Oct-Dec (7.2%) to July-Sept (7.6%) so as to compare 2 completely different quarters - concluding that the trend over that period is downward....... If it is not a 1-month blip, things start to look rather worrying though, as that would suggest that the fall in unemployment might have bottomed off and even be about to head up again.

 

Davie G's post merely shows a seasonal fall in unemployment in December and a seasonal rise in January, both of which are to be expected. 

 

Attention to football!!

[FoxesAreBlue]

Took on 5 people at the start of the month, three have had to be replaced already because their timekeeping, communication and ****ing work ethic was unbelievably shit.

I'm struggling to spend my staffing budget so far this year cos the applicant have been a group of work shy twats

[Rincewind]

MooseBreath, on 19 Feb 2014 - 5:06 PM, said:

How else but a "massive fall" can you describe well over a hundred thousand people no longer unemployed?

By changing the way the figures are counted. Obvious really.

 

That video was early. There were more later on. Considering there was little media coverage leading up to it it was a good turnout.

 

https://www.facebook.com/events/237874276386917/?source=3&source_newsfeed_story_type=regular

Edited 19 February 2014 by Rincewind

[MooseBreath]

Let's put all these figures together....

Germany: 7.6% (2010) -> 5.6% (2012) -> 5.1% (2014)

UK: 8.0% (2010) -> 9.0% (2012) -> 7.2% (2014)

One conclusion might be that there's been a "massive fall" in UK unemployment since 2012 ("significant", not "massive" I'd say).

Other conclusions might be:

1) There was a large rise in UK unemployment at the same time as German unemployment saw a large fall (2010-12)

2) German unemployment has fallen by 2.5% in the past 4 years, whereas UK unemployment is only down 0.8%

3) The disparity between German unemployment and British unemployment has increased under the Tory/LD government.

Before you blame profligate Labour, unemployment fell for a couple of quarters in 2010, when we seemed to be slowly recovering from the financial crash....as the Germans continued to do. Of course, the 2 countries have very different economies, Germany being export-oriented with a strong manufacturing base, whereas the UK is a net importer and focuses on financial services. Also, Tories would claim that we'll see long-term benefits from austerity economics....if so, neither unemployment nor living standards are among them yet.

To clarify the "has unemployment risen or fallen?" confusion...

Unless I'm misunderstanding something:

- July/Aug/Sept: 7.6%

- Sept/Oct/Nov: 7.1%

- Oct/Nov/Dec: 7.2%

As I understand it, this simply means that unemployment in December was higher than in September (Oct/Nov are included in both the 7.1% and the 7.2% figures). This is rather surprising. It may just be a 1-month blip, which is why the more sensible commentators are opting to compare Oct-Dec (7.2%) to July-Sept (7.6%) so as to compare 2 completely different quarters - concluding that the trend over that period is downward....... If it is not a 1-month blip, things start to look rather worrying though, as that would suggest that the fall in unemployment might have bottomed off and even be about to head up again.

Davie G's post merely shows a seasonal fall in unemployment in December and a seasonal rise in January, both of which are to be expected.

Attention to football!!

That's all well and good, but I'm not really sure what relevance the comparison to Germany has in this topic

[Guest MattP]

 

There was one man who was blind and agoraphobic deemed fit for work who had his benefits stopped. He could not stand the shame of living on next to nothing and committed suicide. There was also the wheelchair bound woman who was encouraged by friends to attempt to walk. She used a neighbours child's pushchair to Steady herself. She was reported and had her benefits stopped.

Last year there were 10,600 deaths of disabled people within 6 weeks of being deemed fit to work according to government figures. After that they stopped counting.

Another claimant was deemed fit despite having a serious heart condition. He took a job at a garage and while there suffered 2 heart attacks. He was still  passed fit by ATOS even though they were advised not to. The man had another heart attack from which he died leaving a widow and four children. He was in his forties.

.

 

I thought James Turner Street was a filming of some very rogue characters but that video may just have topped it. It's heartwarming to see someone is so embarrassed though about living on next to nothing they kill themselves after their benefits were taken away, must be a decent package these days.

 

10,600 deaths in 6 weeks within a year due to Atos, they have a better kill to death ratio than Hitler. Though at least Adolf didn't stop counting.

 

My Dog was ran over 4 weeks ago, I think he was declared fit to work by Atos and that was what killed him, no doubt some would claim it was the impact of a 20lb dog being hit at by a 70mph half ton car. That's what I don't read the mainstream media.

Edited 19 February 2014 by MattP

[Guest MattP]

That video was early. There were more later on. Considering there was little media coverage leading up to it it was a good turnout.

 

https://www.facebook.com/events/237874276386917/?source=3&source_newsfeed_story_type=regular

 

Let's be honest it's an appalling turnout, I know 10,600 were killed but surely they had more than 20 relatives between them.

 

Unite really roused their warriors into action for this one.

[Zingari]

Universal Credit: Government's welfare reform ‘may be scrapped after next election’

The future of the Government’s major £2bn welfare reform was thrown into fresh doubt on Wednesday night after it emerged that just a handful of claimants have been enrolled into the new system.

The Department for Work and Pensions disclosed that only 3,200 people had been signed up to receive Universal Credit – a fraction of the original target – at a cost of nearly £200,000 per person.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/universal-credit-governments-welfare-reform-may-be-scrapped-after-next-election-9139458.html

 

that'll be our taxes  well spent then , well done ! anymore bright ideas?

[Rincewind]

The bedroom tax. High courts are ruling that if a room does not have a bed in it is not a bedroom. Also anyone on benefits from 1996 is exempt.Councils are charging the charging  the extra room on the say so of landlords  and should inspect the property before implementing the charge.This will cost them thousands of taxpayers money.

However the government are trying to change the law so it fits in with their plans.

Have you not read about this in the national press?

[Zingari]

The bedroom tax. High courts are ruling that if a room does not have a bed in it is not a bedroom. Also anyone on benefits from 1996 is exempt.Councils are charging the charging  the extra room on the say so of landlords  and should inspect the property before implementing the charge.This will cost them thousands of taxpayers money.

However the government are trying to change the law so it fits in with their plans.

Have you not read about this in the national press?

i read the other day that there was a parliamentary vote to scrap the whole idea of bedroom tax ( the tories all abstained or something) but I've not heard anything about it since . do you know what happened ?

[Guest MattP]

i read the other day that there was a parliamentary vote to scrap the whole idea of bedroom tax ( the tories all abstained or something) but I've not heard anything about it since . do you know what happened ?

No it's still going through.

The nonsense Ken is spouting about high courts ruling on what's a bedroom actually makes no difference as it's an "under occupancy charge" not a "bedroom tax" as it's been coined.

He's read a weird left wing blog somewhere and convinced himself you can get away with it by shifting beds out of rooms when in reality that's nothing do to with anything.

What we need now is to go a stage further and starting forcing people who expect the taxpayer to pay for their home to start sharing to create more avaliable homes.

[Zingari]

No it's still going through.

The nonsense Ken is spouting about high courts ruling on what's a bedroom actually makes no difference as it's an "under occupancy charge" not a "bedroom tax" as it's been coined.

He's read a weird left wing blog somewhere and convinced himself you can get away with it by shifting beds out of rooms when in reality that's nothing do to with anything.

What we need now is to go a stage further and starting forcing people who expect the taxpayer to pay for their home to start sharing to create more avaliable homes.

ah yes  , it was just a first reading of the bill , there's a second reading on the 28th .

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/recap-labour-pass-bill-scrap-3137084

[Rincewind]

The bill specifies that the spare room needs to be a bedroom.

There will be an article somewhere if googled which States this and why there are so many successful appeals.

That judges have supported the appeals is a fact despite it not being reported by the mainstream media.

[Webbo]

The bill specifies that the spare room needs to be a bedroom.

There will be an article somewhere if googled which States this and why there are so many successful appeals.

That judges have supported the appeals is a fact despite it not being reported by the mainstream media.

Well obviously it can't exist anymore then so you needn't keep banging on about it.

[Guest MattP]

The bill specifies that the spare room needs to be a bedroom.

There will be an article somewhere if googled which States this and why there are so many successful appeals.

That judges have supported the appeals is a fact despite it not being reported by the mainstream media.

 

How much has the under occupancy charge cost you?