Fed up of the usual political debate! Time for solutions!

[RobHawk]

I'm sick and tired of reading the same old political nonsense. Labour Vs conservatism, NHS Vs Private, Scroungers V's workers etc etc.

 

So i'm opening up this thread so discussion can be discussed about actual solutions that could help solve the issue. They will probably never happen as we all have far too much common sense and generally aren't bend over backwards for large corporations or Workers Unions! 

 

So i'm going to start off with JSA.

 

Alot of reteric is going around about scroungers on benefits etc etc and there are some people out there who take the piss? So how to we single out these scroungers whilst still helping those in genuine need.

 

Well as a start why don't we introduce a work/volunteering element for claimants so they give something back for their weekly allowance. It could be working with local charity's, or seasonal support to Local Authority staff (clearing the roads of snow, litter picking when required etc) or they could be placements in organisations (tesco, Mcdonalds etc). The key to this is that the outside organisations pay minimum wage for the staff which helps put money back into the budget. Local areas can be improved, community's can be supported and Local Authorities can get a little extra support for already overstretched staff! 

 

It must be clear that each placement is only temporary and they are not intended to replace staff, but support them during busy periods. Its a bit like community service, except you get your "paycheck" at the end of every week. In line with minimum wage levels, 10 or 12 hours of this a week should suffice, whilst also giving the claimant plenty of time to still look for work.

 

More importantly it gets the unemployed involved, doing something constructive, learning skills, and also helping with their self esteem!

 

Thoughts?

[Captain...]

Have said similar things on here before, the risk is it is open to exploitation by big business, which is why it could only be work placements in the voluntary or public sector, schools, hospitals, parks, etc.

 

It would also require a lot more admin and organisation (although also creating jobs) than the box ticking exercise that is the sorry excuse for a job centre we currently have.

[Finnegan]

Wealth redistribution, became the new solution, so I've got a paper bag and you've got the one with all the holes.

[RobHawk]

Have said similar things on here before, the risk is it is open to exploitation by big business, which is why it could only be work placements in the voluntary or public sector, schools, hospitals, parks, etc.

 

It would also require a lot more admin and organisation (although also creating jobs) than the box ticking exercise that is the sorry excuse for a job centre we currently have.

I think it could work for larger private organisations as well, as long as they paid for it, and proper guidance was created and maintained. 

 

As for the job centre, its a joke isn't it? I'd scrap it and start again using this within a new model. It may create some extra jobs to maintain but i think the benefits would be worthwhile and the cost would be pretty low anyway!

 

If would also be interesting to see how many people refuse to work and therefore would no longer receive any benefits!

[Zingari]

What you're suggesting seems a good idea Rob Hawk  , but I think it would increasingly become abused and there would gradually became an acceptance of enforced labour 

I admit this may not seem a bad idea to some though .

[RobHawk]

What you're suggesting seems a good idea Rob Hawk  , but I think it would increasingly become abused and there would gradually became an acceptance of enforced labour 

I admit this may not seem a bad idea to some though .

I suppose it is enforced labour! But i think in the long run it would benefit the claimants and there well-being more than anything and that can only help them aspire to greater things.

 

I think if it ever was looked at seriously there would be issues to be ironed out! no idea is perfect and ensuring the system isn't abused would need to be high up on the agenda!

[Guest MattP]

Tough one, we have allowed sink estates to develop where kids have watched their fathers grow up not going to work and they expect not to go to work and be given money for it.

 

No easy solution, it's certainly a good idea to get someone to go out and do something as far as I'm concerned even if it is employed by 'big business'.

 

I'd like to see random selection of jobs given actually as they sign on, a certain number selected at random on whatever the dole day is and you go out and clean the city centre or litter pick, lets face it the town centre is a dump and the more people doing it the better.

 

They feel like they have earnt there 'free money', we get a cleaner place to live, more motivation (you hope) to find work and the public sit safe in the knowledge no one is getting a free ride.

 

(I would enforce that despite this no cleaners etc are made redundant, they can work alongside them)

[ADK]

We've had this suggestion many times. Personally i'm sick of the whole "scroungers" thing as the number of people who actually fit in that category is so small anyway. The sort of people who are will never be relevant to the countries economy either.

[Guest MattP]

We've had this suggestion many times. Personally i'm sick of the whole "scroungers" thing as the number of people who actually fit in that category is so small anyway. The sort of people who are will never be relevant to the countries economy either.

 

This is about finding a solution to it, letting something just carry on isn't a solution.

[RobHawk]

We've had this suggestion many times. Personally i'm sick of the whole "scroungers" thing as the number of people who actually fit in that category is so small anyway. The sort of people who are will never be relevant to the countries economy either.

I've used the tag as its in the domain! But there are alot of young people on JSA who have never had a job! they may not be scroungers but some real life experience of putting some hours of graft in isn't going to hurt them or their CV. More to the point alot of these young people turn to drink and drugs and many form depression because of the feeling of worthlessness and the fact they don't know what else to do. Surely this would help with confidence wellbeing and install a bit of pride as well!

[davieG]

By the time you've kitted them out with appropriate kit, inducted/trained them on company procedures/h&s practices, allocated someone to supervise them, arranged all the necessary administration you've probably spent more than their weekly JSA.

All that for a few hours/days work and then to have to repeat it all for the next ones is just impractical.

Based on my experience of managing apprenticeship training many managers/supervisors are not interested in the distraction they can cause, they get judged on results and training 'temporary' people isn't part of their remit.

I'd envisage many of this 'temps' would be left to idle their time away especially after the initial impetus had passed.

[ADK]

It's a good idea for during recessions for people that will actually want work. I think the solution for scroungers is educating the children who are most at risk. Trying to deal with the adults is much harder, if you can break the cycle then i think you solve the problem.

[Jon the Hat]

This is not the problem with Benfits.  JSA is a small amount.  The problem is tax credits paid to people on low incomes - why tax people and then pay it back?  Nonsense.  Simply raise the tax threshold, and if you need to help families, increase child benefit.

[Guest MattP]

By the time you've kitted them out with appropriate kit, inducted/trained them on company procedures/h&s practices, allocated someone to supervise them, arranged all the necessary administration you've probably spent more than their weekly JSA.

All that for a few hours/days work and then to have to repeat it all for the next ones is just impractical.

 

It would be if they are on it for 6 months or so and wouldn't they be being forced to attend these sort of courses by then anyway?

 

If not they should be, sure we can find a training room in town.

[Finnegan]

Respectfully, you want someone to work, you pay them minimum wage. I'm in favour of putting money towards schemes that create jobs for the young unemployed but that's what they need to be - jobs.

Labour's Future Jobs Fund was cynically motivated to win votes but at it's heart it was a good idea. Temporary six or twelve month, 25 hour, minimum wage jobs pay out roughly what JSA and Housing did at the time with a bit of spending money on top to add incentive.

These jobs included stuff like litter picking, hedge trimming, graffiti removal, painting communal areas and it was widely appreciated. The kids on the schemes felt they were actually doing something, gained a lot of confidence and work experience.

But having people on JSA forced to do someone else's job for free does nothing for them and also devalues the job of someone who was previously doing it for pay.

Awful idea.

[ManorFox]

If you are on JSA you should have to do an element of work in the community.  There is enough simple jobs that need doing round towns and cities that wouldn't require hours of training etc.  

 

Have the politicians ever produced an actual number of these so called scroungers that plague our society and leech off the system, or is it an urban myth used to drive self serving political ideals? 

[Guest MattP]

Respectfully, you want someone to work, you pay them minimum wage. I'm in favour of putting money towards schemes that create jobs for the young unemployed but that's what they need to be - jobs.

Labour's Future Jobs Fund was cynically motivated to win votes but at it's heart it was a good idea. Temporary six or twelve month, 25 hour, minimum wage jobs pay out roughly what JSA and Housing did at the time with a bit of spending money on top to add incentive.

These jobs included stuff like litter picking, hedge trimming, graffiti removal, painting communal areas and it was widely appreciated. The kids on the schemes felt they were actually doing something, gained a lot of confidence and work experience.

But having people on JSA forced to do someone else's job for free does nothing for them and also devalues the job of someone who was previously doing it for pay.

Awful idea.

 

Cynically motivated by Labour to get votes?, never, you'll be telling me they'll be giving peerages to entice the black community soon.

 

 

I don't think it is an awful idea, we can't afford to pay for 1,000 people to clean the streets so why not take advantage of people who are doing nothing and getting free money for it, what do they get on JSA? £156 a fortnight? So assuming they come in on dole day and get selected for an 8 hour litter picking session or chewing gum pick up thats £19.50 an hour they are being paid by the state for it.

 

Not bad work if you can get it.

 

Why on earth would anyone object for someone working for the money they recieve for nothing off the state, it's absolutely absurd and insulting.

 

Why on earth would you spend even more taxpayers money on doing a job you can get done for free?

[RobHawk]

Respectfully, you want someone to work, you pay them minimum wage. I'm in favour of putting money towards schemes that create jobs for the young unemployed but that's what they need to be - jobs.

Labour's Future Jobs Fund was cynically motivated to win votes but at it's heart it was a good idea. Temporary six or twelve month, 25 hour, minimum wage jobs pay out roughly what JSA and Housing did at the time with a bit of spending money on top to add incentive.

These jobs included stuff like litter picking, hedge trimming, graffiti removal, painting communal areas and it was widely appreciated. The kids on the schemes felt they were actually doing something, gained a lot of confidence and work experience.

But having people on JSA forced to do someone else's job for free does nothing for them and also devalues the job of someone who was previously doing it for pay.

Awful idea.

Ok - so on that basis if we scrap JSA completely and replace it by supplying 12 hr a week jobs on minimum wage to anyone who is out of work and actively seeking a full time job. That way they are working for the money they receive in a job and the amount being spent by government is exactly the same!

[leicsmac]

If you are on JSA you should have to do an element of work in the community.  There is enough simple jobs that need doing round towns and cities that wouldn't require hours of training etc.  

 

Have the politicians ever produced an actual number of these so called scroungers that plague our society and leech off the system, or is it an urban myth used to drive self serving political ideals? 

 

As Finn said, if the amount of money they get for the hours they work in minimum wage or above, then that's a good idea. If not, it's not. Simple.

[Guest MattP]

Ok - so on that basis if we scrap JSA completely and replace it by supplying 12 hr a week jobs on minimum wage to anyone who is out of work and actively seeking a full time job. That way they are working for the money they receive in a job and the amount being spent by government is exactly the same!

 

Brilliant idea.

 

Completely scrap it and give out these jobs at the Dole Office on short term contracts for the day!

As Finn said, if the amount of money they get for the hours they work in minimum wage or above, then that's a good idea. If not, it's not. Simple.

 

£19.50 an hour on basic JSA if you are selected for one day every two weeks.

[Harry - LCFC]

Have the politicians ever produced an actual number of these so called scroungers that plague our society and leech off the system, or is it an urban myth used to drive self serving political ideals? 

 

I understand it isn't that many, just tends to get used by people to justify their desire to bring down benefits.

 

I've got no sympathy for the scroungers but it's important to realise they aren't a major problem for the economy (I think).

[Guest MattP]

I understand it isn't that many, just tends to get used by people to justify their desire to bring down benefits.

 

I've got no sympathy for the scroungers but it's important to realise they aren't a major problem for the economy (I think).

 

In terms of image, education and legacy if you let it fester the number only gets bigger and that creates a huge problem.

[davieG]

It would be if they are on it for 6 months or so and wouldn't they be being forced to attend these sort of courses by then anyway?

 

If not they should be, sure we can find a training room in town.

Surely the whole point of giving them work experience is to get them into proper paid jobs as soon as possible so it could be anything from a week upwards with no way of predicting how long the person would be there. I just don't see companies going for it.

 

Besides 6 months or more of doing a 'nothing' job that a company isn't prepared to actually recruit someone to do would probably demotivate the individual even more.

[Guest MattP]

Surely the whole point of giving them work experience is to get them into proper paid jobs as soon as possible so it could be anything from a week upwards with no way of predicting how long the person would be there. I just don't see companies going for it.

 

Besides 6 months or more of doing a 'nothing' job that a company isn't prepared to actually recruit someone to do would probably demotivate the individual even more.

 

Bit of both.

 

Partly getting them back into work and partly actually doing something for the money they are getting.

[ManorFox]

Brilliant idea.

 

Completely scrap it and give out these jobs at the Dole Office on short term contracts for the day!

Hang around any street corner early in the morning and you'll find the cash in hand boys doing this already to top up those on JSA.

 

I think that is a very decent idea, works in the whole localism ideal as well   local office deciding on local work for local communities for local people.  Win win win