Webbo Posted 4 October 2013 Posted 4 October 2013 I saw many changes of governments during the years of public ownership and they pretty well continued largely unaffected. And largely crap.
leicsmac Posted 4 October 2013 Posted 4 October 2013 Maybe they did but who controlled the purse strings? Where is the ability to raised capital outside government funding and at what level of interest. The CEO becomes a puppet of the government with the attendant politics and the minster sets up another ten layers of civil servants to manage something that they know nothing about. That's the problem. Then they were puppets, now they are bosom chums. Neither is ideal. The balance of power is all wrong in both respects. And largely crap. Is the present system better in terms of value for money to the public. Not disagreeing that the services weren't crap, but I've not really seen much more bang for my buck in the years of private ownership.
Zingari Posted 4 October 2013 Posted 4 October 2013 And largely crap. yeah right if you say so. I really can't see any of the benefits to the British people as a whole with the privatised utilities . They don't seem any better at all to me . Perhaps someone can give me some figures to show me how much better and efficient they are ? Is the Royal Mail really such a bad service under public ownership ? i don't think so, i think it is an a absolutely brilliant service .
Webbo Posted 4 October 2013 Posted 4 October 2013 We've had 3 major train crashes in Europe this summer on nationalised train services, when was the last time we had one in this country?
Smudge Posted 4 October 2013 Posted 4 October 2013 Maybe this, maybe that, maybe the other , but really come on !! the CEO a puppet ? was it all a big conspiracy? I saw many changes of governments during the years of public ownership and they pretty well continued largely unaffected. Sorry but unless you can give some examples that any of this occurred , i think this is all just opinion based on your ideological standpoint Maybe this, maybe that, maybe the other , but really come on !! the CEO a puppet ? was it all a big conspiracy? I saw many changes of governments during the years of public ownership and they pretty well continued largely unaffected. Sorry but unless you can give some examples that any of this occurred , i think this is all just opinion based on your ideological standpoint Not going there Zingy, it's Friday and I don't do debates with myopic opinions. I don't have an ideological standpoint on much at all. Politically I'm pretty AC/DC depending who the character is and what his record has been. i have no idea where you get that from. I come from running a large operation and the CEO was a level above me and with whom I met frequently. I needed quick responses to my businesses needs. A dynamic highly capital intensive business needs to submit capital expenditure requests on a monthly basis with payback calculations etc. In my case they were approve or not on the spot. Your alternative would be to submit a yearly budget with a gross amount that could be spent willy nilly or have armies of faceless civil servants approve or deny your request. As to seeing change of government, who closed down the mines, Thatcher? Who shut down the railway system as was? Beeching Who ****ed up the British Leyland - Can't remember
I am Rod Hull Posted 4 October 2013 Posted 4 October 2013 We've had 3 major train crashes in Europe this summer on nationalised train services, when was the last time we had one in this country? Arent we still subsidising our privatised rail companies?
Zingari Posted 4 October 2013 Posted 4 October 2013 We've had 3 major train crashes in Europe this summer on nationalised train services, when was the last time we had one in this country? the record for accidents pre and post privatisation look pretty similar really. there are bad years and spikes.Ithink that's clutching at straws tbh http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rail_accidents_in_the_United_Kingdom Advances in technology should make the railways safer anyway as in all industries . I'm pretty sure the mining industries of the world have had terrible records under private and public ownership. OH and i almost forgot , Europe is a very big place to make comparisons with,
Zingari Posted 4 October 2013 Posted 4 October 2013 Arent we still subsidising our privatised rail companies? yes of course , but that doesn't fit in with the ideological stubbornness that keeps telling us how wonderful it all is now
I am Rod Hull Posted 4 October 2013 Posted 4 October 2013 From 2012. "They've worked out that train firms gave £1.17bn in premiums to the government last year, and got £3.88bn back in subsidies." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19914219 Got to love privatisation Maybe the Government can come up with some outrageous tax on the poor to make sure the shareholders get their divi. Damn! the bedroom tax has already been done....
Webbo Posted 4 October 2013 Posted 4 October 2013 Arent we still subsidising our privatised rail companies? I believe so, yes. the record for accidents pre and post privatisation look pretty similar really. there are bad years and spikes.Ithink that's clutching at straws tbh http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rail_accidents_in_the_United_Kingdom Advances in technology should make the railways safer anyway as in all industries . I'm pretty sure the mining industries of the world have had terrible records under private and public ownership. I think we've had this discussion before and it was established the post privatisation record was much better and with the increase in passengers the average is even better.Private industries have to take safety seriously because they face the threat of litigation and can't just pay it out of taxpayer's money.
Zingari Posted 4 October 2013 Posted 4 October 2013 I believe so, yes. I think we've had this discussion before and it was established the post privatisation record was much better and with the increase in passengers the average is even better.Private industries have to take safety seriously because they face the threat of litigation and can't just pay it out of taxpayer's money. I watched a tv prog about the history of coach travel the other day , do you know how many people were killed on average on private coach tours in the early days ? I'd love to tell you but i can't remember , but the figure was astounding. That's why they nationalised the coach services .
Lamby Posted 4 October 2013 Posted 4 October 2013 I was a Tory, but after seeing their proposals this week in the paper, they're going right down hill now.
ADK Posted 5 October 2013 Posted 5 October 2013 Thing with nationalised industries, especially the rail, is that you would need to have a government that consistently supported them. That would mean never ever getting a Tory government, or at least rarely getting one. I could see Scotland, if it gets independence could have good nationalised industries because they never vote for right wing parties. Otherwise you get a self-fulfilling prophecy whereby the right wing party can prove their own point simply by running the industry badly when they are on office.
Finnegan Posted 5 October 2013 Posted 5 October 2013 I was a Tory, but after seeing their proposals this week in the paper, they're going right down hill now. WTF!?
Guest MattP Posted 5 October 2013 Posted 5 October 2013 WTF!? The mind absolutely boggles. I'd have had his opinion of the Tories on a par with Rincewind.
purpleronnie Posted 5 October 2013 Posted 5 October 2013 Most tories have no idea what they're talking about. soz.
Rincewind Posted 6 October 2013 Posted 6 October 2013 http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/oct/04/headlines-right-wing-press-wind-up?CMP=twt_gu
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