European Election Results

[Feed The Yak!!]

So if we subsidise these industries with millions of pounds we'll get more back in tax?

I'm fairly confident that the cost of subsidisation is far less than the amount the CEOs are not paying.

[Webbo]

I'm fairly confident that the cost of subsidisation is far less than the amount the CEOs are not paying.

In 1979 British Steel was losing £1 million a day, what would that be in today's money? Also by having a monopoly that was basically run by the unions it stopped any innovation and prevented any British company from starting up and running an efficient alternative.

[Feed The Yak!!]

In 1979 British Steel was losing £1 million a day, what would that be in today's money? Also by having a monopoly that was basically run by the unions it stopped any innovation and prevented any British company from starting up and running an efficient alternative.

Privatising industries is actually what creates monopolies, despite the myth that 'privatisation creates competition'. It really doesn't, it just allows a small group of people to set the prices as high as they like. All unions do is prevent employees from being paid a pittance.

[Webbo]

Privatising industries is actually what creates monopolies, despite the myth that 'privatisation creates competition'. It really doesn't, it just allows a small group of people to set the prices as high as they like. All unions do is prevent employees from being paid a pittance.

The workers weren't paid a pittance in those days. Even though the taxpayer was keeping them in a job they were still on strike every week, preserving their out dated working practices, demanding ridiculous wage rises and demanding shorter hours.

 

Apart from water which privatised industries are monopolies?

[Feed The Yak!!]

The workers weren't paid a pittance in those days. Even though the taxpayer was keeping them in a job they were still on strike every week, preserving their out dated working practices, demanding ridiculous wage rises and demanding shorter hours.

 

Apart from water which privatised industries are monopolies?

I don't mean they're literally monopolies in that only one corporation provides the service - but it's in the interests of CEOs to work together to extort customers while providing low quality service.

[Webbo]

I don't mean they're literally monopolies in that only one corporation provides the service - but it's in the interests of CEOs to work together to extort customers while providing low quality service.

I don't know what it's got to do with Chief Executive Officers but what you are talking about is a cartel which is illegal and you don't have any evidence that that is happening. 

 

Also I remember the old nationalised industries and like all monopolies the service "was like it or lump it", basically it was shit.

[The God Emperor]

Ah because privatisation of the industries has benefited us all hasn't it? Oh, no it hasn't. While we may have been rid of the subsidies, now we're losing out on millions of pounds of tax because these industries are run by people who take next to no interest in the state of our economy.

yes it has. might not be perfect due to governments still liking to tinker, regulate and subsidise, but we've still benefited. People are  producing goods and services that are being sold for a profit so are producing wealth, which is good for the economy. 

Taxation isn't really all that essential, we were doing perfectly fine when our tax level was at around 7%, and back then the state had to manage a pan continental empire.  

[The God Emperor]

I don't mean they're literally monopolies in that only one corporation provides the service - but it's in the interests of CEOs to work together to extort customers while providing low quality service.

for a cartel to exist it needs a Government (or an institution with a monopoly on the use of force) to enforce the rules of said cartel. Why charge the same as your competitors when you can undercut them and take their business?

there have been examples of companies owning large shares of a market with out state intervention. Standard oil owned most of the US oil market in the 19th century but that was because the product Rockefeller provided was of a much greater quality and a much lower price than his competitors. People got cheap high quality kerosene, Rockefeller got stinking rich, everyone wins. if he had abused that position he would not have held it for very long. 

[Feed The Yak!!]

I don't know what it's got to do with Chief Executive Officers but what you are talking about is a cartel which is illegal and you don't have any evidence that that is happening. 

 

Also I remember the old nationalised industries and like all monopolies the service "was like it or lump it", basically it was shit.

I'm not saying they pull up alongside each other at parking lots but if you think they don't work to a mutual benefit then ok, but a lot of people would call you naive or perhaps disingenuous.

[Webbo]

I'm not saying they pull up alongside each other at parking lots but if you think they don't work to a mutual benefit then ok, but a lot of people would call you naive or perhaps disingenuous.

So why do some firms struggle and some firms thrive? Why would the CEO of a struggling company destroy his business to help out another? Why does Morrisons share price go down when Asda announces a price war if they are all in it together?

 

You seem to think that all businesses are run by crooks and that govt run organisations have the best interest of us all at heart. If you do believe that then the evidence seems to suggest it's you who's naive.

[MooseBreath]

I'm not saying they pull up alongside each other at parking lots but if you think they don't work to a mutual benefit then ok, but a lot of people would call you naive or perhaps disingenuous.

What kind of companies are you talking about?

[Feed The Yak!!]

So why do some firms struggle and some firms thrive? Why would the CEO of a struggling company destroy his business to help out another? Why does Morrisons share price go down when Asda announces a price war if they are all in it together?

 

You seem to think that all businesses are run by crooks and that govt run organisations have the best interest of us all at heart. If you do believe that then the evidence seems to suggest it's you who's naive.

Well considering government run organisations aren't concerned with making a profit, yes, they do tend to be focused on providing a high quality of service.

[Feed The Yak!!]

So why do some firms struggle and some firms thrive? Why would the CEO of a struggling company destroy his business to help out another? Why does Morrisons share price go down when Asda announces a price war if they are all in it together?

 

You seem to think that all businesses are run by crooks and that govt run organisations have the best interest of us all at heart. If you do believe that then the evidence seems to suggest it's you who's naive.

And these price wars, what do they result in? Although it is true that recently the German supermarkets like Aldi and Lidl have been forcing prices down, it's rare that we see any real change.

[Guest MattP]

Well considering government run organisations aren't concerned with making a profit, yes, they do tend to be focused on providing a high quality of service.

 

You clearly don't remember or used any of them then, 6 months for a telephone to be fitted, a train you'll hoping that would turn up within an hour and no electric as if they didn't get what they wanted the workers were on strike.

[Webbo]

Well considering government run organisations aren't concerned with making a profit, yes, they do tend to be focused on providing a high quality of service.

All local/national govt organisations are run for the benefit of the people that work in them. If they were ran for profit they'd have to provide a good service or their trade would go elsewhere.

[Webbo]

And these price wars, what do they result in? Although it is true that recently the German supermarkets like Aldi and Lidl have been forcing prices down, it's rare that we see any real change.

So the German shops aren't in on the cartel then? Are they owed by the German govt?

[Feed The Yak!!]

So the German shops aren't in on the cartel then? Are they owed by the German govt?

What I'm saying is that a lot of the 'rivalries' you see, really aren't that fierce. You think Coke and Pepsi really hate each other? If this competition does lead to undercutting, where does the downward spiral end?

[Webbo]

What I'm saying is that a lot of the 'rivalries' you see, really aren't that fierce. You think Coke and Pepsi really hate each other? If this competition does lead to undercutting, where does the downward spiral end?

I don't care. As long as I'm benefiting, so what?

[Feed The Yak!!]

I don't care. As long as I'm benefiting, so what?

We're not benefiting though. This is what I'm saying. This apparent 'undercutting' doesn't really happen. Organisations know that it certainly doesn't benefit them, so why do it? They don't. No "cartel" needs to be set up.

[Webbo]

We're not benefiting though. This is what I'm saying. This apparent 'undercutting' doesn't really happen. Organisations know that it certainly doesn't benefit them, so why do it? They don't. No "cartel" needs to be set up.

Asda cut their prices so that they can take business off Tescos, Sainsbury's and Morrisons. It does happen and it does benefit them and us. It's patently obvious.

[Feed The Yak!!]

Asda cut their prices so that they can take business off Tescos, Sainsbury's and Morrisons. It does happen and it does benefit them and us. It's patently obvious.

So if we compare prices now from years ago, there'll be a significant difference will there? Not that I said all businesses did it anyway, but the argument that privatisation is beneficial due to competition and undercutting is a poor one. It rarely leads to better service quality or lower prices. Of course there are fluctuations and exceptions and this helps to maintain the illusion.

[Mike the Metal Ed]

So if we compare prices now from years ago, there'll be a significant difference will there? Not that I said all businesses did it anyway, but the argument that privatisation is beneficial due to competition and undercutting is a poor one. It rarely leads to better service quality or lower prices. Of course there are fluctuations and exceptions and this helps to maintain the illusion.

 

I'd say supermarkets are one of the better examples. Food prices in general have gone up, they're susceptible to external factors like grain prices and weather, but I can keep a mental note of whether my chosen products are cheaper at Sainsbury's, Tesco, Iceland or Morrison's and shop wherever my total shop will be cheaper.

 

Also thank **** we've got the strong price war in telecommunications that we have, where most of us have a choice of at least four ISPs, otherwise we'd all be paying £70 a month for a 0.8 Mbps download speed and 2 GB data cap like the Americans.

 

When competition fails, however, prices can skyrocket. We can't choose our football team, but we want to go to the football, so we end up paying £32 to be treated like scum. Something needs to be done with public transport, too. Current price-setting policy doesn't work and the franchise system means that if I'm going from London to Birmingham, I have to put up with Virgin's overpriced, sub-standard service. East Midlands Trains have seemingly sunk millions into improving their fleet and prettying up local stations, but they'll probably lose money over it because they can only offer services between Sheffield and Nottingham (mostly). Where's the incentive there to be on the customer's side?

[leicsmac]

I don't know what it's got to do with Chief Executive Officers but what you are talking about is a cartel which is illegal and you don't have any evidence that that is happening. 

 

Also I remember the old nationalised industries and like all monopolies the service "was like it or lump it", basically it was shit.

 

Have the Big Six energy companies got this memo yet?

[leicsmac]

I'd say supermarkets are one of the better examples. Food prices in general have gone up, they're susceptible to external factors like grain prices and weather, but I can keep a mental note of whether my chosen products are cheaper at Sainsbury's, Tesco, Iceland or Morrison's and shop wherever my total shop will be cheaper.

 

Also thank **** we've got the strong price war in telecommunications that we have, where most of us have a choice of at least four ISPs, otherwise we'd all be paying £70 a month for a 0.8 Mbps download speed and 2 GB data cap like the Americans.

 

When competition fails, however, prices can skyrocket. We can't choose our football team, but we want to go to the football, so we end up paying £32 to be treated like scum. Something needs to be done with public transport, too. Current price-setting policy doesn't work and the franchise system means that if I'm going from London to Birmingham, I have to put up with Virgin's overpriced, sub-standard service. East Midlands Trains have seemingly sunk millions into improving their fleet and prettying up local stations, but they'll probably lose money over it because they can only offer services between Sheffield and Nottingham (mostly). Where's the incentive there to be on the customer's side?

 

Do agree with this. In some industries the competition is there and it works well as can be seen by the lower prices and improved service.

 

However there are a fair few key industries - energy and transportation, to name two - where cartel rules seem to apply and the consumer is shafted because the 'rival' companies have certain agreements with each other not to really compete.

 

I wonder why it's the case in some industries but not in others? Effective or ineffective regulators maybe?

[Ross-Kemp]

Have the Big Six energy companies got this memo yet?

Yawn.

Do some research on how an Energy company is run.

Oh and if you're not happy with the Big 6's prices, change supplier, there is more than enough competition.