European Election Results

[Guest MattP]

Are any Liberal Democrat supporters still overwhelmingly supporting the introdutcion of PR now given it would produce a slewth of UKIP MP's in Westminster and virtually wipe them out next year?

[Finnegan]

Are any Liberal Democrat supporters still overwhelmingly supporting the introdutcion of PR now given it would produce a slewth of UKIP MP's in Westminster and virtually wipe them out next year?

 

Sorry for the OT but I've just noticed your sig.

[ADK]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-27565266

 

Well that took long.

[Guest MattP]

Sorry for the OT but I've just noticed your sig.

 

I was going through the Pearson "stay or go" thread from last summer that Steve_Walsh5 put up yesterday and came across it, I've not laughed as much at something over the internet for a long time.

[Finnegan]

classic 'Col.'

[ADK]

Are any Liberal Democrat supporters still overwhelmingly supporting the introdutcion of PR now given it would produce a slewth of UKIP MP's in Westminster and virtually wipe them out next year?

 

Of course.

 

The lib dems will be back, how strong depending on who they select as their next leader assuming they ditch Clegg.

[Guest MattP]

Of course.

 

The lib dems will be back, how strong depending on who they select as their next leader assuming they ditch Clegg.

 

I think they might struggle.

 

I think the Liberals have underestimated just how much of a protest vote they were, people know what their policies are now and I don't think there is anywhere as much demand for what their core beliefs are as the public had led them to believe.

[ADK]

I think they might struggle.

 

I think the Liberals have underestimated just how much of a protest vote they were, people know what their policies are now and I don't think there is anywhere as much demand for what their core beliefs are as the public had led them to believe.

 

Depends what you mean by struggle. With the right leader and the right campaign they could recover to where they were a decade or so ago. Clegg must go now though. 

[I am Rod Hull]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27584237

[Guest MattP]

Depends what you mean by struggle. With the right leader and the right campaign they could recover to where they were a decade or so ago. Clegg must go now though. 

 

What I mean by struggle is that the supposed 'support' the Lib Dems had was largely based on people registering protest votes along with a loyal core, before the last 5 years no one really knew what the Liberals really stood for, I'd bet a significent proportion of those voting for them had no idea of it's policy on Europe, it's pathetic limp wristed approach to crime and an immigration policy which verges on open borders.

 

People now know this and unless that changes I can't see people flocking back to them. 10% might be about their limit.

[ADK]

I don't think they ever had a lot of support from right wingers. It's the educated vote that they do well from and they need to regain that first.

[Guest MattP]

I don't think they ever had a lot of support from right wingers. It's the educated vote that they do well from and they need to regain that first.

 

I love it when people say that, the 'educated vote' that wanted to join the Euro, the educated vote that has pretty much got every major decision wrong apart from the Iraq and Afghanistan wars over the last 30 years.

[Buce]

I don't think they ever had a lot of support from right wingers. It's the educated vote that they do well from and they need to regain that first.

They lost an entire generation of the educated, and their parents, when they broke their promise over tuition fees.

They face a long time in the political wilderness.

[Guest MattP]

They lost an entire generation of the educated, and their parents, when they broke their promise over tuition fees.

They face a long time in the political wilderness.

 

Let's be honest anyone who thought a nation in a recession that had around 50% of it's population going to university could afford free tuition fees shouldn't really be described as 'educated'.

 

Even Clegg must want to turn around and shout to them all "Were you really being serious voting for me for this?, Come on guys!"

[ADK]

You mean like Scotland?

 

I would vote for them again if they admitted they got it wrong on tuition fees and pledged to scrap them again. ( Assuming their other policies were decent).

[Guest MattP]

You mean like Scotland?

 

I would vote for them again if they admitted they got it wrong on tuition fees and pledged to scrap them again. ( Assuming their other policies were decent).

 

A country with 6 million people is very different to 60 million and a lot of Scottish commentators have openly stated without the extra money given to them from Westminster to the Scottish parliament they wouldn't be able to afford it.

 

It will be hugely interesting to see how Scottish politics moves if they vote yes as you would imagine the days of Labour and the SNP make ever more lavish bribes to voters at elections would actually have to stop.

 

You have a stark choice of increasing taxes or cutting public spending elsewhere to fund free tuition, personally I think it's absolutely immoral that an 18 year old in a low paid job should have to pay for a 21 year old to learn a job that will earn him far more over a lifetime. Disgusting in fact.

 

II think the system is fine as it is, if you benefit so greatly from your university education then you earn a very good amount of money you should pay it back rather than expect the rest of society too.

 

We already have masses of students learning courses that in reality are of no use in the workplace and just gives them an extra three years off before going into work, social studies, dance, business administration etc etc, can you imagine what that figure be if the taxpayer was paying for it as well?

 

If you are going to push free tutition fees onto the taxpayer, the taxpayer will want to see a lot more qualified Doctors, Scientists, Surgeons, Dentists etc rather than half the idiots you get now walking into work having spent three years cruising through a childcare course as they wanted three years on £1 a drink nights throughout town.

 

There is a reason the Lib Dems target teh young students who haven't quite lived in the real World yet for their votes.

[Guest MattP]

Although I won't lie about my own hypocrisy here

 

If the Lib Dems were to get into power on that promise even I'd down tools and go back to University for three years if the government was genuinely going to foot the bill.

[davieG]

A country with 6 million people is very different to 60 million and a lot of Scottish commentators have openly stated without the extra money given to them from Westminster to the Scottish parliament they wouldn't be able to afford it.

 

It will be hugely interesting to see how Scottish politics moves if they vote yes as you would imagine the days of Labour and the SNP make ever more lavish bribes to voters at elections would actually have to stop.

 

You have a stark choice of increasing taxes or cutting public spending elsewhere to fund free tuition, personally I think it's absolutely immoral that an 18 year old in a low paid job should have to pay for a 21 year old to learn a job that will earn him far more over a lifetime. Disgusting in fact.

 

II think the system is fine as it is, if you benefit so greatly from your university education then you earn a very good amount of money you should pay it back rather than expect the rest of society too.

 

We already have masses of students learning courses that in reality are of no use in the workplace and just gives them an extra three years off before going into work, social studies, dance, business administration etc etc, can you imagine what that figure be if the taxpayer was paying for it as well?

 

If you are going to push free tutition fees onto the taxpayer, the taxpayer will want to see a lot more qualified Doctors, Scientists, Surgeons, Dentists etc rather than half the idiots you get now walking into work having spent three years cruising through a childcare course as they wanted three years on £1 a drink nights throughout town.

 

There is a reason the Lib Dems target teh young students who haven't quite lived in the real World yet for their votes.

 

I've always thought that if there is a dire need by the Country fir such as Doctors, Engineers etc then their fees should be paid or at least subsidise. There may even be a decent case for get some of it back if they get a paid job in that subject.

 

It's almost immoral of these university and governments encouraging young people to go to university to do courses that have little or no chance of offering them a career. But i guess they have a free choice.

 

I'm a massive advocate of genuine apprenticeships sponsored by the business that will eventually benefit from that investment.

[Harry - LCFC]

Are any Liberal Democrat supporters still overwhelmingly supporting the introdutcion of PR now given it would produce a slewth of UKIP MP's in Westminster and virtually wipe them out next year?

 

Yes, it isn't about doing what's best for the party you support it's about producing a fair electoral system.

 

Using the most recent General Election as an example, it seems unjust that a party can get 23% of the vote but only 9% of the seats. The people simply weren't represented accurately. That isn't the worst case either.

[Strokes]

I take your point about everyone being somewhat xenophobic but I find it rather ridiculous to say that mild xenophobia justifies more extreme xenophobia. Surely we can distinguish between 'very xenophobic' and 'slightly xenophobic' and realise that both views would produce very different societies?

To give you an example, would someone saying "we're all educated to some degree" convince you that further education isn't worthwhile?

My point was that they aren't anymore xenophobic than the general public. I.e you and i

[Strokes]

Yes, it isn't about doing what's best for the party you support it's about producing a fair electoral system.

Using the most recent General Election as an example, it seems unjust that a party can get 23% of the vote but only 9% of the seats. The people simply weren't represented accurately. That isn't the worst case either.

Id be all for it now, going back on my previous opinion. Not because it has helped UKIP whom I have affection for but because I've seen coalition governments can work, just as effectively. It might also make it harder to have safe seats, which would be a brilliant thing for politics.

[ADK]

A country with 6 million people is very different to 60 million and a lot of Scottish commentators have openly stated without the extra money given to them from Westminster to the Scottish parliament they wouldn't be able to afford it.

 

It will be hugely interesting to see how Scottish politics moves if they vote yes as you would imagine the days of Labour and the SNP make ever more lavish bribes to voters at elections would actually have to stop.

 

You have a stark choice of increasing taxes or cutting public spending elsewhere to fund free tuition, personally I think it's absolutely immoral that an 18 year old in a low paid job should have to pay for a 21 year old to learn a job that will earn him far more over a lifetime. Disgusting in fact.

 

II think the system is fine as it is, if you benefit so greatly from your university education then you earn a very good amount of money you should pay it back rather than expect the rest of society too.

 

We already have masses of students learning courses that in reality are of no use in the workplace and just gives them an extra three years off before going into work, social studies, dance, business administration etc etc, can you imagine what that figure be if the taxpayer was paying for it as well?

 

If you are going to push free tutition fees onto the taxpayer, the taxpayer will want to see a lot more qualified Doctors, Scientists, Surgeons, Dentists etc rather than half the idiots you get now walking into work having spent three years cruising through a childcare course as they wanted three years on £1 a drink nights throughout town.

 

There is a reason the Lib Dems target teh young students who haven't quite lived in the real World yet for their votes.

 

You already pay it back through taxation. I don't see why it is fair to say that a student must pay back their education while also paying a disproportionate amount of tax.

[Strokes]

You already pay it back through taxation. I don't see why it is fair to say that a student must pay back their education while also paying a disproportionate amount of tax.

If you arent prepared to invest in yourself, why would you expect the nation to invest in you?

[Feed The Yak!!]

of course before it's minor shift to the right China was a veritable eden. It's easy to have full employment when the state owns everything, subsidies mean you can give people jobs whether they are productive or not. Nationalisation made our industries very unproductive, exports from  these industries had to be heavily subsidised to make anyone want to buy them. The state they where in was only realised when they were privatised and the curtain hiding the inefficiency and waste was lifted. It takes time to recover from this.

China's minor shift to the right has given birth to a growing middle class and now Chinese people can enjoy innumerable luxuries that could not be imagined a generation ago. If China shifts further from Marx to Mises we'll see a real super power and with a large middle class pressuring for political reform it could even be a benevolent one.  

Ah because privatisation of the industries has benefited us all hasn't it? Oh, no it hasn't. While we may have been rid of the subsidies, now we're losing out on millions of pounds of tax because these industries are run by people who take next to no interest in the state of our economy.

[Webbo]

Ah because privatisation of the industries has benefited us all hasn't it? Oh, no it hasn't. While we may have been rid of the subsidies, now we're losing out on millions of pounds of tax because these industries are run by people who take next to no interest in the state of our economy.

So if we subsidise these industries with millions of pounds we'll get more back in tax?