Premier league..... aint all that

[Grewks]

So after giving it the big un at the start of the season , talking about top half no problem, inviting Stoke fans to their own relegation party, now the Premier league is no big deal !!! Fact is your team is completely out of its depth and isn't anywhere near good enough to stay in it. Thanks for popping by as a really poor suppporting act who no-one will remember next season.

 

 

Cannot think of the last side who were 20th in the league, and were as competitive as we have been.

 

 

 

We have lacked a lot of things this season, none more than what people refer to as 'game management'. We took 12 months in the championship for our players to understand what was required, now with 12 months at this level, they should understand what is required in the future.

[MC Prussian]

So after giving it the big un at the start of the season , talking about top half no problem, inviting Stoke fans to their own relegation party, now the Premier league is no big deal !!! Fact is your team is completely out of its depth and isn't anywhere near good enough to stay in it. Thanks for popping by as a really poor suppporting act who no-one will remember next season.

But how about the season after the next one?

 

Ideally, I'd love us to prove a lot of people wrong with a decent end-of-the-season finish and a miraculous survival in the top flight.

[PAULCFC]

Yes but this happens in every league all the time it just isn't reported as much.

What about us vs Forest or us Vs Watford or the same season weren't Brentford denied promotion a the death when they missed a penalty and the opposition went immediately down the other end and scored. Then there was the greatest escape of all when the Carlisle  goalkeeper scored a goal in the the 3rd? minute of stoppage time of the last match of the season to stop the falling out of the football league.

 

I'm just trying to be objective/ Let's look at another club, say Stoke. Now I'm not a fan but credit to them as a club they have managed to establish themself as a mid table side. But what is the summit of their ambition?. They may spout on about top 6 but the chance of it happening is slim to none. Each season they start the season looking to get enough points to survive and hope for a bit better. They make get to 8th but that's it. They are never going to win it, they might win a cup but even that is a long shot. That now is the reality for almost every fan of every club except about 4 or 5 sides. That in my opinion is a shame.

And that is my issue with the league. Nothing to do with not wanting to see my side in it but a realisation that all most clubs have to play for in it is not being relegated.

Has it helped the national sides to improve? No

The stadia are certainly of better quality, as are the pitches but I'd say that it about the only improvement. There's less violence, racism and sexism but that would have happened anyway as society evolved in these matters.

 

But it is very expensive for fans. Not just ticket prices but shirts and everything else that goes with it. I would say it has directly led to the financial hardships suffered by Leicester, Leeds, and Portsmouth (combined with some bad management of course).

Has the money trickled down to lower league clubs? Not really.

Are the players really any better than say in the 70s? I'm not sure. They may be from more exotic countries but look at our team. Given similar nutrition and training facilities of today's standards the likes of Worthington, Weller, Nish, Whitworth and Shilton would walk all over the current team. No doubt there are some great players but they're all pretty much in the top 4 sides.

 

Some rule changes could make all the difference but they will never happen. The bigger clubs will get richer and richer and continue to move away form the rest. Medium size clubs will risk everything to try and stay with them but will fail.  Even big clubs like Newcastle, Everton and Villa are struggling to get anywhere near the top teams. Just imagine what a fascinating league it could be if 12-15 sides had a genuine chance of winning the title rather than the same 4 clubs pretty much every season.

Imagine how some of the riduculous number of players on Chelsea's books might have made a real difference to clubs like ours if they had not been farmed out on loan to other European clubs just to stop them playing for other premier league sides.

It is this kind of thing that makes me dissillusioned with the game at this level not how we are doing. I'll always follow us whatever league we are in.

Great post!This season's been good for watching the "best league in the world".But as a fan i wouldn't have swaped it with the L1 Season for cheap away days(not been to one this season as opposed to 12 in L1)I'm really happy to be in the prem for a bit,but it has taken the fun out of it for me,probably cause we lose most games.....but Hereford(£15.........Chelsea £55)And how long do we have to wait for our next home game!

[shailen]

Yes but this happens in every league all the time it just isn't reported as much.

What about us vs Forest or us Vs Watford or the same season weren't Brentford denied promotion a the death when they missed a penalty and the opposition went immediately down the other end and scored. Then there was the greatest escape of all when the Carlisle  goalkeeper scored a goal in the the 3rd? minute of stoppage time of the last match of the season to stop the falling out of the football league.

 

I'm just trying to be objective/ Let's look at another club, say Stoke. Now I'm not a fan but credit to them as a club they have managed to establish themself as a mid table side. But what is the summit of their ambition?. They may spout on about top 6 but the chance of it happening is slim to none. Each season they start the season looking to get enough points to survive and hope for a bit better. They make get to 8th but that's it. They are never going to win it, they might win a cup but even that is a long shot. That now is the reality for almost every fan of every club except about 4 or 5 sides. That in my opinion is a shame.

And that is my issue with the league. Nothing to do with not wanting to see my side in it but a realisation that all most clubs have to play for in it is not being relegated.

Has it helped the national sides to improve? No

The stadia are certainly of better quality, as are the pitches but I'd say that it about the only improvement. There's less violence, racism and sexism but that would have happened anyway as society evolved in these matters.

 

But it is very expensive for fans. Not just ticket prices but shirts and everything else that goes with it. I would say it has directly led to the financial hardships suffered by Leicester, Leeds, and Portsmouth (combined with some bad management of course).

Has the money trickled down to lower league clubs? Not really.

Are the players really any better than say in the 70s? I'm not sure. They may be from more exotic countries but look at our team. Given similar nutrition and training facilities of today's standards the likes of Worthington, Weller, Nish, Whitworth and Shilton would walk all over the current team. No doubt there are some great players but they're all pretty much in the top 4 sides.

 

Some rule changes could make all the difference but they will never happen. The bigger clubs will get richer and richer and continue to move away form the rest. Medium size clubs will risk everything to try and stay with them but will fail.  Even big clubs like Newcastle, Everton and Villa are struggling to get anywhere near the top teams. Just imagine what a fascinating league it could be if 12-15 sides had a genuine chance of winning the title rather than the same 4 clubs pretty much every season.

Imagine how some of the riduculous number of players on Chelsea's books might have made a real difference to clubs like ours if they had not been farmed out on loan to other European clubs just to stop them playing for other premier league sides.

It is this kind of thing that makes me dissillusioned with the game at this level not how we are doing. I'll always follow us whatever league we are in.

 

good post.

 

The first point in bold is true, the beauty of english football is such that a lot of unpredictable things happen but you look across the top leagues in Europe and it's so predictable, whereas the PL isn't as predictable, and in recent years there have been moments that have been exceptional for the neutral. 

 

The example of Stoke is true, it isn't exciting to be finishing tenth every season, but no team sets out to finish there. The league is tough yes, and that is why they have very little chance of finishing in the top four/six. But this makes it a more of a challenge, and like Soton who have broken the mould and potentially will be playing in Europe next season, it makes things more exciting. I don't think it makes the league worse at all, but instead more watchable and the ratings that Soton are getting this season are for all to see. If Liverpool had won the league last season, it would have definitely upset the trend. They haven't exactly been a superclub for a while, and they almost did it.

 

Yes, Im not deluded to think that we will win the PL soon, it is almost virtually impossible as you mentioned, but the fun is in the challenge. If we could establish ourselves in the PL for a few seasons we could start to challenge for Europe. Bolton did it for a number of seasons, so it is not impossible. Whether we do or not, remains to be seen. BUT you have to have some ambition and desire that we can do the impossible otherwise it becomes boring to be a football fan and condemn ourselves from the onset.

 

The bigger clubs will continue to get bigger. But I think it's shown that money doesn't bring success. You have to get so many other things right for a club to be successful. Take United the most successful club of recent times, their success was based on the class of 92 youth players before they went out and bought some real big stars. Even Arsenal to an extent, used the core of the defence left by George Graham in their PL winning side. Soton are the modern day example, the players they have acquired have cost next to nothing. Even take us, in the Championship as 'big spending Leicester'. We brought in some top top players on paper, yet we couldn't get close to the PL, whereas with the squad last year of young, hungry players mostly bought on the cheap and some experience we created probably the most devastating team in Championship history. 

[Swiss_tony]

It's all opinion of course and fair play you like it but for me I'd like to have seen English football when there was no Premier League. It was far more competitive minus all this branding, minus Sky and their money. Look at Nottingham Forest and Liverpool for example - fair play they were both managed by geniuses when it happened - two clubs who got promoted from the second division and within two years they were champions of England. Doesn't that sound/look better to you? 

 

We've got so many big teams in this Country. Even in the football league, look at the rich history of the likes of Huddersfield and Wolves. But without the money these teams will never win the top flight again, or even challenge for it. And this is why we'll never see our club even get near the top four of the Premier League. It's the same every year, Chelsea and Manchester City. Even Liverpool have never won the division and they're the biggest club in England (along with Manchester United). Arsenal are the best Premier League side for me, that period between 97 and 04 was brilliant, but even they look miles off these days.

 

I think it was Brian Clough who said the Premier League would ruin football and that statement was right. It's even took something away from the two domestic trophies.

 

Don't get me wrong, we've seen a lot of special moments and we've seen some special players - the likes of Le Tissier, Suarez, Bergkamp - but the first division would have provided this too. And maybe even more. Tottenham, quite rightly a big club, are playing in the League Cup final tomorrow. I hope they win it because they won't ever get near winning the top flight again.

i hear what your saying and agree for the most part, bosman and the prem have killed football as we know it, and transformed into something i don't like, but it's a bit of a myth to say the pre premier league was more competitive.

only 5 teams have won the premier league since it started.

if you take the last 20 years of the old first division, only 7 teams won the title then. most of the time the usual suspects were winning it, as now.

in fact if you go back 50 years only 11 clubs have won the top  title and 3 of them were one offs.

so for 50 years the title has been shared between the same 8 clubs pretty much.

not really that  competitive is it?

[Dan LCFC]

Atletico are the only exception to the barca real dominance over the last 10 seasons. But the point is these two teams are miles ahead of everyone else in their own league. That's what makes it uncompetitive. 

Sociedad were in the CL this year, and they aren't a bad side at all. So it's not a massive shock. What makes this league the best is that the points difference between the teams isn't so vast. And especially in the relegation scrap there are usually at least 6/7 teams involved at this stage of the season. My argument isn't about the quality of the teams on the PL, but the strength of the league. Barca and Madrid are miles ahead of City and Chelsea, but that is what makes their league a poorer league to watch. Shocks will happen in all leagues, but in the PL you hardly get a 5-0 or a 6-0 whitewash which seems to happen a lot in Spain.

 

I get what you're saying, but I'm just not sold on the quality of this league at the minute. Watch a game like West Brom v Hull and then watch... I don't know, Real Sociedad v Getafe, I'd wager good money that the latter produces a better quality of football. There isn't as much prestige in Spain but I think the overall quality is just better. I'm surprised how few actually raid that league considering the supposed financial troubles a lot of them are in.

 

I've seen people say about whitewashes before but to be totally honest, would you not fancy Real, Barca or Bayern to stick 6 past Villa or QPR as well? Admittedly Germany's dodgy ground as the standard of defending over there is appalling.

[Dan LCFC]

The Aguero last minute winner to win the title

The Gerrard slip to lose the title last year

The great escapes of Wigan from relegation

Even us, under MON where we finished in the top half, some have mentioned to be our greatest ever period

West Brom last day escape despite being bottom in 04/05

 

I'm sure there are more moments, but I have not seen any other league provide more drama and entertainment. Think as well, the top English clubs are nowhere near as good as the Spanish clubs thus it makes our league more competitive. The reason our fans are complaining about the PL, is because we are doing badly this year. If we were around mid-table such threads wouldn't even come up. Don't blame the league, but the team.

 

They're all things that can happen in any league in the world though. I'm not using those kind of incidents against the Premier League as the drama is undoubtedly up there, but how do you know that things like that don't happen in every league?

 

If Leicester had gone and done what SM Caen have done in France over the past couple of months everyone would be hyping it up saying "you only get this in the Premier League" and it just simply isn't true.

 

I'm not complaining about it because we're shit, I've thought for years before we'd even been promoted that it was over-hyped. A strong league undoubtedly, but over-hyped and in my opinion, massively under-achieves given the financial strength we have over pretty much anyone in the world.

[daddylonglegs]

Having watched the Norwich v Ipswich game yesterday, I've got to say that the Premier League is in actual fact 'all that'.

 

Better quality of football

Higher profile players

You get to attend better grounds

Better coverage (although the same, inadequate punditry)

 

Yes, premier league football as a Leicester fan is largely linked with disappointment and ultimately loss. Although I watch Leicester with the sole purpose of seeing us win, I must admit I have enjoyed watching genuinely very talented footballers at the King Power. 

[daddylonglegs]

Ps. my point RE the Norwich Ipswich game - I only managed one half. It was a game of which goalie can kick the ball the furthest, with the difference coming from a player kicking the ball as hard as he could toward the goal and hoping for the best in Norwich's goal (although, what a goal!)

[Leicester_Numan]

Fair enough, but I think that's more an argument for football in general. You can know go anywhere in the world and see literally every match. It may have made all the leagues more uncompetitive, by making the bigger teams bigger. However, I think it's more appropriate to compare across all the top divisions in all the countries, at the same time. The PL stands out for me, over La Liga and Serie A. It's definitely more competitive, not just in terms of who wins the title but also who gets relegated. People had Southampton to struggle, yet they are in and around a CL place. In other leagues, you can almost predict the league table.

I personally think football is better becuase it is without a doubt harder to be in the PL then ever before, partly because of the money, so if we could do something special like finishing in Europe one season it would make the experience more satisfying. The Forest and Liverpool examples are great, but in a cynical way doesn't that show you the weakness of the league back then. If we could ever replicate that it would be without a doubt more satisfying in the modern day, where you have to break through the monopoly of the big four, over 40 years ago. It's a bigger challenge and we should embrace that.

Finally, we may have never seen the likes of Suarez and Bergkamp in our league had it not been for the rebranding of the PL. The money will attract the best players from along the globe to play in our division. The likes of Aguero, Silva, Fabregas, Costa...etc probably wouldn't have come here if it weren't for the money.

I think you missed the managed by geniuses part of the Liverpool and Forest examples. The league wasn't weak, they were two well put together teams with great players and let's not forget they were also the days of Villa winning the European Cup and Ipswich winning the UEFA Cup