Jobyfox

The last time we drew against Ipswich they only got any foothold in the game after we took KDH and Ndidi off. Perhaps EM was reluctant to make changes again? This time he left it too late when the players started to lose energy but, ultimately, the outcome was the same. I wonder whether it’s just a case that the replacements aren’t at the same level. It doesn’t matter in games where we’re 2 or 3 up, but in tight games it shows. Especially if the team we’re playing is capable themselves. We’re not likely to get many signings in January, but an extra CM would help greatly. We can just about cope when one of Ndidi, Winks and KDH isn’t playing, but when 2 of the 3 are off the pitch we don’t have the same control. You could make similar arguments for other areas of the pitch, but CM is the most visible and obvious area

Even better. I was thinking his ban didn’t apply to FA Cup

Can Fatawu play in this one? May as well keep him match fit if so

That’s the way I see it really. We could easily have been out of sight. If you don’t take your chances there is always a chance you’ll get hurt

Their goalie looked good. To be honest we could easily have scored 4 or 5 but, when we didn’t, you just knew what was going to happen. Absolute rinse and repeat of the away game!!! Only worse!!!

Nope! That’s what we did in the away fixture and they put us under a lot of pressure at the end

You should always believe everything you read after a simple Google search on the internet

I reckon we should go a bit left field and throw Smithies in for this one … …. oh …. hang on ….

This one’s affected me badly! I don’t think I’ve been this devastated since Leon Crncic left

Enzo has been quite consistent with team selection so I just can’t see him playing Ricky P in a more advanced midfield role. I think that will either be Akgun or Praet, but probably the former. McAteer likely to play wide right. Not what I necessarily want just what I think EM will do. I also have a thought he might start Vardy but, if not, it will be Vardy for Cannon after 60 odd minutes

To be honest other teams results are irrelevant at this stage unless we make them matter We just need to do our job - starting with Ipswich

In my mind only the timing is poor. If Ndidi and KDH were available we probably wouldn’t blink. I can’t think, once KDH is back, that a midfield of Praet, KDH and Winks is any worse than one with Casadei. Not withstanding whether Praet actually wants to play for us. If we can get someone in this window then I think Butch will be quickly forgotten

I’ve never rated Praet and couldn’t understand what people saw him in. But ….. last season I thought that Vestergaard was one of our worst signings in history and I didn’t think Daka offered much. So now I question everything. I wouldn’t expect him to be of any use to us from now to the end of the season, but stranger things have already happened

Yeah, not just Chelsea. I remember Liverpool went through a cycle of selling very average players for massive fees - just because they’d had some first team experience at Liverpool: Rhian Brewster comes to mind and ….. er …… Danny Ward!

One of the reasons that the EPL is (considered in many circles to be) the best league in the world is that it can attract the very best players. The problem I see with a salary cap is that the best players will start going elsewhere, the PL won’t be such an attractive commodity without them and, subsequently, won’t generate the revenues that it does currently. Reducing the quality of the product in a vicious spiral. But I guess it’s a trade off and no system is perfect. What we have now certainly isn’t

I agree with the OP. FFP isn’t necessarily a bad thing if it is implemented in fair, timely and consistent way. It was frustrating last year, when we were pulling our belts in, to see a newly promoted club throw money around like confetti in a manner that was obviously breaking the rules. We all want things to be fair, but it’s a delicate balance sometimes between appropriate ambition and sustainable spending. I’m always a bit conflicted, however, when I think about it. It should be possible for any team to progress to the very top based on a meritocracy, but that’s not the case in any league. The creation of the PL was driven by the top clubs wanting to ring fence the revenues for themselves just as the attempts to create a super league are. They want to lock out competition for good. Machester United (and in particular Martin Edwards) were one of the driving forces of the EPL. Edward’s made no secret of the fact that he wanted to put smaller clubs “to sleep”. What was probably never envisaged, at the time, was the billionaire owners pumping money into clubs like Chelsea and Man City to shake up the status quo. We could have been in a situation where Manchester United continued with a succession of titles with only the occasional challenge from the likes of Liverpool et al. This was totally disrupted and I can’t help think that wasn’t a bad thing. It may never be possible again with FFP

I’m thinking 30 points and a 2 year transfer embargo!

I think Lennon was the big miss. He wasn't replaceable for the money we got for him. Taylor was, however, well supported in the transfer market in terms of both upfront fees and salaries. They were all lavished on inferior quality players. Now you could argue that the club itself was responsible for the unsustainable expenditure, but there are always vagaries of who was responsible for what just as there were under Rodgers's tenure. Now I'm no fan of Rodgers, or his behaviour in his last season or two with us and I'm still angry about a totally avoidable relegation - but our club is 140 years old this year and we've won the FA Cup just once.

People often use the phrase "revisionism" when what they really mean is "I don't agree with what you're saying", which is perfectly fine. Somebody else said, on this thread, that Mandaric took us to "rock bottom". He might have done in terms of league position, but under Taylor we were on the brink of extinction. In my own mind that was our lowest possible position and was the prelude to what happened for the years that followed (a club going nowhere). We were never in that perilous financial position under MM. After the Taylor era we were a broken club and would have gone nowhere without new owners. The problem was we were an incredibly poor investment. Mandaric was the least worst option when few (no) other options were available. Despite my many misgivings about him and his poor decision making I feel he was a necessary evil and I can't see the Vichai takeover (which was the really important one) happening if MM hadn't stabilized our position financially. I will, however, leave the conversation there as I doubt I will change anyone's view who already has a fairly, entrenched, position ...... and this is a thread about "Rodger's effect on players" after all.

I don’t get why this is so funny. We were a club going nowhere with no investment. We were just meandering along with no hope or direction. Mandaric was far from ideal, but he was the only white horse on the horizon that was available. He made mistakes early doors with his meddling and managerial appointments. He took the club down into the 3rd tier (although with a points total that would ordinarily have been plenty). But under his stewardship we finally had hope. He brought in Nigel Pearson and the restructure started. He made the club an interesting enough project to attract external investment. He was the one who ultimately sold the club to Vichai. One can only speculate where we’d have been without Mandaric. Some other investor might have come along, but we were a very unappealing proposition at that time. My guess is that without him our trajectory would have followed a similar path to that of Coventry City or Derby County …. but we’ll never know

When I reflect on Peter Taylor I always say that if you had brought someone with the specific, evil, intent of completely dismantling the club then they wouldn’t have done a better job. Rodgers won the FA Cup and had us playing in Europe before he presided over the most needless relegation in our history. Taylor picked up an established PL team and brought the club to the brink of extinction. We’d never have recovered from the effects of his tenure if we hadn’t been somewhat fortunate with Mandaric and Vichai rebuilding the club from the bottom. We don’t know the ultimate effect of the BRodgers meltdown. If we get promoted it might be a temporary blip, but we will see. To say it was a “bigger crime” than Taylor’s dramatic time in charge though is, in my opinion, utterly ridiculous!!

Whilst I agree with everything you’ve said today’s announcement is about Forest. Let me have my moment

To be fair it was a paraphrase of a David Ornstein quote and not a direct quote. I will remove the inverted commas before the lawyers descend ....

…. although no whispers of any action on the 115 alleged breaches by Man City