Next Leader of the Opposition

[johnny the fox]

If that's what they wanted then they were right.

 

Surely a party (or group of any kind) should be representative of it's members.

 

We all support Leicester and they don't win the league. Should we instead support Manchester or Chelsea because they have the better chance of winning?

 

A party should represent its members and the population can vote for the party whose policies they prefer.

 

If that means never having a labour government again so be it. 

 

Clearly to win the last election Labour would have needed to become a cross between UKIP and the Tories. Is that really how you want you politics to go?

 

Personally I prefer parties with well defined beliefs - new parties if needed - and people vote for beliefs.

Ha ha... a political party without power is about as useful as a eunuch at a dogging session... All i can say about Labour at the moment is ,  they are split on how they want to commit suicide... the members have learnt nothing from history..nor have you..   Corbyn has rebelled hundred's of times against the party leadership.....how can he possibly command any respect or loyalty from mp's with his track record?  its a recipe for disaster...

[Molly]

Ha ha... a political party without power is about as useful as a eunuch at a dogging session... All i can say about Labour at the moment is ,  they are split on how they want to commit suicide... the members have learnt nothing from history..nor have you..   Corbyn has rebelled hundred's of times against the party leadership.....how can he possibly command any respect or loyalty from mp's with his track record?  its a recipe for disaster...

 

You should support Chelsea if you're only interested in winning

[johnny the fox]

You should support Chelsea if you're only interested in winning

ha ha... pray tell me..what is the fookin point of a political party that never gains power?  you should go and join the workers revolutionary party  if your not interested in winning..ha ha .

[Molly]

ha ha... pray tell me..what is the fookin point of a political party that never gains power?  you should go and join the workers revolutionary party  if your not interested in winning..ha ha .

 

I'm not part of the Labour Party.

 

What's the point of a football club that never wins?

 

Surely politics is about your beliefs. well maybe not yours as looking at the threads you start they are all about perverted sexual problems that you have. 

[Rincewind]

Don't forget non-voters. Say what you will about him, but he does seem to be getting them interested...

True a lot of people who were disalusioned last election signed up to vote for him. Labour have not been given the nickname of Blue Labour for nothing. Maybe Labour MP's who are against him are afraid of not having things so easy.

[Claridge]

Mirror, which I haven't read for years-maybe- former home of Alaistair Campbell-left wing! Guardian- essentialy Liberal (old style), but did advise readers to vote Milliband- probably because the new liberals were essentially Tories- coalition.

Independent- advised readers to vote Tory.

So I think I have a very good point.

Left wing press! No such thing.

That guy probably thinks the Sun is left wing!

Papers represent their readers,which tells you about the amount of left wing people in this country.Public sector (guardian) and lay abouts (mirror).Most people over the age of 30 who work in the real world don't vote for left wing parties.

Labour always messes up the economy the tories have sex scandals or dodgy dealings.

[johnny the fox]

I'm not part of the Labour Party.

 

What's the point of a football club that never wins?

 

Surely politics is about your beliefs. well maybe not yours as looking at the threads you start they are all about perverted sexual problems that you have. 

Ha ha.. that's it, when you have no cogent argument resort to personal attacks .. grown up  politics is not about beliefs mate..its about achieving the possible in an imperfect world and system... or your just a dreamer... god save us from "true" believers..ha ha 

[Molly]

Ha ha.. that's it, when you have no cogent argument resort to personal attacks .. grown up  politics is not about beliefs mate..its about achieving the possible in an imperfect world and system... or your just a dreamer... god save us from "true" believers..ha ha 

 

Firstly, I'm not your mate and would never dream of mating with you.

 

I didn't personally attack you, I commented on the threads which you start, have you looked at them yourself?

 

Your featured sentence which I've highlighted means nothing at all.

 

I suggest you go back to starting threads about large Penises as you're not very good at communicating in sensible topics.

[Guest MattP]

Why do people keep saying "that's democracy"?.

This isn't a national election, it's a private members ballot.

I don't think any other organisation in the World would tolerate thousands of people signing up to vote against what the principles of something are to take it down a new route in such a short space of time.

I'd imagine most Labour MP's want a politician in charge of the party who could be prime minister, not a professional protestor who has never had to make a decision in his life.

[Guest MattP]

Let's not overestimate Corbynmania either, he's spoken in packed halls of 2,000 people in a City that draws anti austerity marches of 100,000 plus.The elelectorate is about 35 million.

This is starting to become Clegg, Farage or Brand mania again.

[Molly]

Why do people keep saying "that's democracy"?.

This isn't a national election, it's a private members ballot.

I don't think any other organisation in the World would tolerate thousands of people signing up to vote against what the principles of something are to take it down a new route in such a short space of time.

I'd imagine most Labour MP's want a politician in charge of the party who could be prime minister, not a professional protestor who has never had to make a decision in his life.

 

It isn't about what Labour MPS want.

 

I bet you weren't happy when the Unions had a large say in who should lead the party but now you think it should be down to the MPs.

 

MPs are their to reflect their constituents desires whilst in office but the leader of the party should represent it's members desires.

[Molly]

Let's not overestimate Corbynmania either, he's spoken in packed halls of 2,000 people in a City that draws anti austerity marches of 100,000 plus.The elelectorate is about 35 million.

This is starting to become Clegg, Farage or Brand mania again.

 

What portion of the number of people in the UK actually voted the Conservatives in?

[Guest MattP]

It should be about MP's and membership, hence the nomination and vote process, what it shouldn't be though is about a vote being hijacked by people who were previously nothing to do with the party.

I have no sympathy for the MP'S mind, the few who dragged Corbyn into the contest 5 minutes before the deadline can now reep what they've sewn.

[Guest MattP]

Answer to your quesrion - far more than any other party.

If you think you need a majority of the population to have a legiminate government you'll be waiting a long time for one.

If people can't be arsed to vote that's their problem.

[Claridge]

What portion of the number of people in the UK actually voted the Conservatives in?

A far bigger portion than any other? Once people have left college they see labour for what they are. Tax,waste,tax,waste

[Stadt]

It's all good having your key values but if you never get to implement, what's the point?

It's better to propose only some of your key values and get in power to implement them than it is to have all of your key values and never be in power.

Previous Labour voters that voted Tory didn't vote Conservative because Labour weren't left enough, I don't want Corbyn to get elected because I don't think he'd be capable of winning an election, even as a would be Conservative voter I wouldn't want the Conservatives to be able do almost whatever they want because the opposition is poor.

[Guest Bilo]

Yet you are clearly not inline with the view of the majority in the party. Perhaps you should re-evaluate what you want from your leaders. It seems you want a business oriented party. You seem to have labeled yourself Labour but moved away from those labour principles. I suggested Lib Dem because you seem more in line with them but you also hold Tory views (much as you may hate to hear it). You have the right to move to whichever group you want to move to. The labour party can stick to its core beliefs and then you can decide if you are really labour nowadays or not.

 

You are the one transfixed upon labour winning at all costs - even if they sell their souls. Corbyn is saying he wants to make a stand with his beliefs - no-one has to back him - if they do then it shows that the majority wish to make that stand to.

 

TBH an efficient public owned system clearly trumps all others theoretically. Efficient Non-profit organisations will give you the best service at the best price. 

 

I'm not sure how you've managed to infer any Tory values from anything I've posted. It seems that Corbynites have this very binary idea of politics - pro-Corbyn or Tory, with absolutely no shades of grey in between. 

 

Labour principles are more than just old fashioned socialism. They are social justice, fair distribution of wealth, fairness in society, achieving social mobility and equality of opportunity. Those are values all Labour Party members, including myself, hold dear. More importantly, there is more than one way to achieve these goals. 2+2 = 4, but so does 1+3.

 

These are quite broad values, and there are a number of ways in which they can be achieved - hence Labour's status as a broad church of social progressives. The notion that I'm not Labour because my beliefs are not in line with what you perceive to be a majority of our members is therefore frankly ludicrous.

 

Labour do need to be a viable party of government. The comparison to Leicester City not winning silverware is far, far too basic. I'd love nothing more than to walk down Wembley Way in May, sing Abide With Me and watch Big Wes lift the trophy at the end of the game. It won't, however, adversely affect millions of lives of the vulnerable if we fail to do so. It won't even affect my life that badly if we don't win the cup this season. A Leicester City that can't win a trophy merely disappoints us and ruins our weekends, a Labour Party that can't get elected lets down millions of the most vulnerable and inhibits social justice. There's a big difference.

 

There are millions of people in this country who need a Labour government. Even the Blair government, more right-wing than anything on offer save for Kendall, achieved things like Sure Start, the National Minimum Wage, burgeoning recruitment in the NHS and schools, investment in education at all levels and a drop in child poverty. It's not therefore 'power for power's sake,' but offering a real alternative. If people truly believe that Andy Burnham's values are the same as David Cameron's, I would suggest that it's our job as a party to educate them as to just how wrong they are. That's not soul selling, it's going all out to win a General Election. We don't need to sacrifice our principles to win, and I advocate no such route to power.

 

Lastly, I agree that public owned systems work. I'm firmly in support of renationalising the railways, especially having compared Germany's brilliant and cheap system to our own. 

[Guest MattP]

The increasingly popular argument that people voted Tory instead of Labour because the latter weren't left wing enough is so ridiculous I don't really know where to start with it.

The delusion from the far left has reached new levels with Corbynmania attached to it.

[Guest Bilo]

Don't forget non-voters. Say what you will about him, but he does seem to be getting them interested...

He does, for now. This would be great if a GE was 12 months away, but how many of these will still be with us in five years? Non-voters being swept up by The Next Big Thing could just as easily be swept by The Next Big Thing that comes along in two years' time or, more likely, lose interest all over again as soon as Corbyn's honeymoon period is over and the flattering front pages have dried up. The best time to pick up fickle floating voters and engage non-voters is at the end of a Parliament, not the beginning.

The issue of non-voters is a significant one, but their views are as diverse as the voting electorate. Indeed, I imagine there's a significant proportion of them who don't give a flying fig about politics no matter who stands. I personally think we need to look more at the practicalities of voting to engage these people, such as online voting, but that's another debate altogether. The fact is that a lot don't vote because they can't be bothered to do so, not because they're yearning for a new messiah.

[johnny the fox]

Firstly, I'm not your mate and would never dream of mating with you.

 

I didn't personally attack you, I commented on the threads which you start, have you looked at them yourself?

 

Your featured sentence which I've highlighted means nothing at all.

 

I suggest you go back to starting threads about large Penises as you're not very good at communicating in sensible topics.

how old are you son? 14?    no mate. I don't go through previous posts..I leave that to sad stalkers like you....  you need to chill out a bit and get a sense of humour  son, your too serious for a lad of 14..  you can suggest what you like its a free forum..

[Guest Bilo]

I'll guess that with a name like Molly, that probably isn't a lad....

[The Horse's Mouth]

[Guest MattP]

Your motives: MattP- Ukip/Far right Tory, who's shit scared JC might win. You know this much- the other 3 have no chance. At least we agree are on something.

 

Sorry I missed this. I was so shit scared he might win I actually signed up to vote for him.

 

I'd say Burnham or Kendall have outside chances actually, Burnham would finally be able to remove the party from it's London bourgeious bohemian image it has make some sort of appeal back to it's working class voters and Kendall would gain huge support from moderates and being female would be a huge bonus, providing she still held onto to a vast number of loyal (It's a myth that they all think she's a Tory, look at the vote she got in Leicester West) tribal vote base which is common when the Tories are in I don't think she would be far off.

 

But if you really want to present a 71 year old IRA and Islamist sympathising protestor to the country as a genuine alternative to be Prime Minister then be my guest. It's almost like the communists who hijacked the Green party about fifteen years ago and now decided to a shot at something bigger.

[Dr The Singh]

This election is well boring compared to the Republican candidacy. No matter what people think of Trump, man is that guy good in TV, love him

[Dr The Singh]

Sorry I missed this. I was so shit scared he might win I actually signed up to vote for him.

I'd say Burnham or Kendall have outside chances actually, Burnham would finally be able to remove the party from it's London bourgeious bohemian image it has make some sort of appeal back to it's working class voters and Kendall would gain huge support from moderates and being female would be a huge bonus, providing she still held onto to a vast number of loyal (It's a myth that they all think she's a Tory, look at the vote she got in Leicester West) tribal vote base which is common when the Tories are in I don't think she would be far off.

But if you really want to present a 71 year old IRA and Islamist sympathising protestor to the country as a genuine alternative to be Prime Minister then be my guest. It's almost like the communists who hijacked the Green party about fifteen years ago and now decided to a shot at something bigger.

I'd vote communist