Next Leader of the Opposition

[Guest Bilo]

A world where people are fed-up of choosing between Tory and Tory-lite?

 

If you think Burnham is Tory lite, I suggest you read his manifesto. Cooper is a Keynesian economist. 

 

It's not a choice between Corbyn and soft Tory policies, however much his supporters like to portray otherwise.

[Stadt]

I'm fed up of seeing "Tory-lite"

[Guest Bilo]

I'm fed up of seeing "Tory-lite"

 

The go-to slur of people who see politics in black and white. It's such a lazy allegation.

[Frank to be]

If you think Burnham is Tory lite, I suggest you read his manifesto. Cooper is a Keynesian economist.

It's not a choice between Corbyn and soft Tory policies, however much his supporters like to portray otherwise.

Burnham manifesto looks tory-lite to me. "Families.. Good standard of living... Balanced economic plan.. Affordable homes.." blah blah blah, the exact same shite that the tories trot out only with a few minor nods towards the centre ground. Garbage.

As for keynsian economics, well that wouldn't help us now because we'd need even more spending cuts than the tories are doing.

What we need is a labour party that actually stands for something distinguishable from the tories, not just the same milkshake with slightly less semen.

[Guest Bilo]

Burnham manifesto looks tory-lite to me. "Families.. Good standard of living... Balanced economic plan.. Affordable homes.." blah blah blah, the exact same shite that the tories trot out only with a few minor nods towards the centre ground. Garbage.

As for keynsian economics, well that wouldn't help us now because we'd need even more spending cuts than the tories are doing.

What we need is a labour party that actually stands for something distinguishable from the tories, not just the same milkshake with slightly less semen.

 

Abolition of tuition fees. Extension of UCAS style support to people seeking apprenticeships. Rent controls. Renationalisation of the railways. Bringing social care under the wing of the NHS. It's about as far away from Thatcherism as you can possibly get while still remaining electable.

 

If you honestly think things like obtaining a good standard of living for all, a balanced economic plan and affordable homes are Tory values then we might as well give up on not just the 2020 election, but on Labour ever being electable again. The balanced economic plan is crucial. If we don't go into a future election with a viable economic plan, the Tories will trounce us like they did this year. The electorate don't trust us with the economy, harsh fact. It's our job to point out Tory economic failings AND present a viable alternative, not Utopian and pie-in-the-sky plans that are uncosted.

 

The public ain't that daft.

[Buce]

If you think Burnham is Tory lite, I suggest you read his manifesto. Cooper is a Keynesian economist.

It's not a choice between Corbyn and soft Tory policies, however much his supporters like to portray otherwise.

Where were they before the last election? I don't recall either of them arguing against Milliband's pledge to continue with Tory austerity.

Corbyn has tapped into the unease felt by many at what was seen as a betrayal of real Labour values. Labour doesn't need to win back 'soft' Tories; more people didn't vote at all, than voted Tory - those are the votes that can bring about change. Fvck the status quo - it's time for something different.

[Claridge]

Where were they before the last election? I don't recall either of them arguing against Milliband's pledge to continue with Tory austerity.

Corbyn has tapped into the unease felt by many at what was seen as a betrayal of real Labour values. Labour doesn't need to win back 'soft' Tories; more people didn't vote at all, than voted Tory - those are the votes that can bring about change. Fvck the status quo - it's time for something different.

RIP the Labour Party. 3 really uninspiring candidates and 1 idiot who has the policies of a1970s sixth former. There must be better in the party than these 4

[Guest Bilo]

Where were they before the last election? I don't recall either of them arguing against the Milliband's pledge to continue with Tory austerity.

Corbyn has tapped into the unease felt by many at what was seen as a betrayal of real Labour values. Labour don't need to win back 'soft' Tories; more people didn't vote at all, than voted Tory - those are the votes that can bring about change. Fvck the status quo - it's time for something different.

 

What are real Labour values? Harking back to the pre Blair years won't wash. It's been over 20 years, and would be like Tories claiming that only Thatcher had real Tory values. Politics has changed, and going back to 1980s ideals that couldn't win an election then and expecting them to do so over 30 years later is bizarre logic. We need a message that responds to modern challenges, not just the question of austerity. Of course, austerity needs to be rolled back and has been damaging.

 

What about the other questions? There's aspects such as lack of affordable housing, immigration, an ageing population, growing youth unemployment, denigration of vocational education and our relationship with the EU. These are 21st century problems that require 21st century solutions. 

 

People aren't staying at home en masse because there isn't a socialist option, they're staying at home on election day largely because they couldn't give a stuff about politics. I don't doubt that a lot of these people have taken an interest in this election, but it's naive to think they'll still be just as enthusiastic in 2020. There's a great deal of bandwagon jumping here fuelled by social media, and such bandwagons notoriously have a shelf life that make mayflies look like Methusalah. I could reel off a number of social media fuelled phenomena that looked massive at the time but were forgotten within a couple of months. 

 

The reality is this. Corbyn has never held a Cabinet or Shadow Cabinet position, and has been overlooked by Foot, Kinnock, Smith, Blair, Brown and Miliband for such a role. He's the most rebellious MP in the party, so would struggle to command any authority or unity. He struggled to gain enough nominations, and some who nominated to 'broaden the debate' have expressed regret for doing so. If he's elected, the PLP are likely to render him a lame duck leader about thirty seconds after the first negative polls are released. No amount of hankering after the past and navel gazing will alter these facts.

[Guest Bilo]

RIP the Labour Party. 3 really uninspiring candidates and 1 idiot who has the policies of a1970s sixth former. There must be better in the party than these 4

 

Dan Jarvis is undoubtedly a future leader. I expect he'll step up after the 2020 election, which would really give the Tories sleepless nights.

[Strokes]

I'm no labour supporter bilo but saying shit like politics has changed isn't really of any substance, we know that and that's what they aren't happy about.

[Guest Bilo]

I'm no labour supporter bilo but saying shit like politics has changed isn't really of any substance, we know that and that's what they aren't happy about.

 

It's changed because it's had to.

 

The challenges we meet in 2015 are not the same as the challenges we met in 1985, so the solutions need to be different. The electorate are different, their aspirations are different and the difficulties they face are different. You evolve or die, it's that simple.

[Strokes]

It's changed because it's had to.

 

The challenges we meet in 2015 are not the same as the challenges we met in 1985, so the solutions need to be different. The electorate are different, their aspirations are different and the difficulties they face are different. You evolve or die, it's that simple.

I'm actually coming round to the idea, the timing is perfect for the EU referendum and we could do with some proper political alignment. I feel politics is due a big change again and all though this might not be right for labour, I think it could well be right for the country. I'm not calling him fúcking jezza though.

[Guest Bilo]

I'm actually coming round to the idea, the timing is perfect for the EU referendum and we could do with some proper political alignment. I feel politics is due a big change again and all though this might not be right for labour, I think it could well be right for the country. I'm not calling him fúcking jezza though.

 

Anyone who calls him JC because it puts them in mind of Jesus Christ should probably be barred from voting on anything, including the X Factor, for the remainder of their natural lives.

 

If it's not right for Labour though, it's not right for democracy and therefore the country. Every government needs a strong and united opposition for parliamentary democracy to flourish, not a divided and weakened protest group shrieking limply from the sidelines.

[Strokes]

Anyone who calls him JC because it puts them in mind of Jesus Christ should probably be barred from voting on anything, including the X Factor, for the remainder of their natural lives.

If it's not right for Labour though, it's not right for democracy and therefore the country. Every government needs a strong and united opposition for parliamentary democracy to flourish, not a divided and weakened protest group shrieking limply from the sidelines.

That depends on your opinion of the EU, let's be honest burnham, Kendall and cooper won't be adding any weight to an out campaign.

[Guest Bilo]

That depends on your opinion of the EU, let's be honest burnham, Kendall and cooper won't be adding any weight to an out campaign.

 

Neither will Corbyn. All four want to stay in, but with renegotiated relationships.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jul/28/jeremy-corbyn-backs-british-membership-of-eu

[Strokes]

Neither will Corbyn. All four want to stay in, but with renegotiated relationships.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jul/28/jeremy-corbyn-backs-british-membership-of-eu

Ah fúck him then.

Seriously though, I still think he would add more to the debate. I mean someone as left as that, really cannot be happy with the way the Greece situation has been handled and the migrant crisis will only further fuel it. It's surely against everything the socialists stand for.

[Frank to be]

Abolition of tuition fees. Extension of UCAS style support to people seeking apprenticeships. Rent controls. Renationalisation of the railways. Bringing social care under the wing of the NHS. It's about as far away from Thatcherism as you can possibly get while still remaining electable.

If you honestly think things like obtaining a good standard of living for all, a balanced economic plan and affordable homes are Tory values then we might as well give up on not just the 2020 election, but on Labour ever being electable again. The balanced economic plan is crucial. If we don't go into a future election with a viable economic plan, the Tories will trounce us like they did this year. The electorate don't trust us with the economy, harsh fact. It's our job to point out Tory economic failings AND present a viable alternative, not Utopian and pie-in-the-sky plans that are uncosted.

The public ain't that daft.

The balanced economic plan, affordable homes, living standards stuff won't get labour elected because nobody believes in any of that rubbish. Swing voters went tory because they thought labour would do the same things as the tories only slightly less effectively. What people really want is an end to all the nonsense, the economic lies, the broken promises etc. Labour need a labour who is going to resonate with people's desire for a fresh, clean approach to politics not someone who is going to be seen as just another tory. The Tories will always win at being tories.

[Claridge]

The balanced economic plan, affordable homes, living standards stuff won't get labour elected because nobody believes in any of that rubbish. Swing voters went tory because they thought labour would do the same things as the tories only slightly less effectively. What people really want is an end to all the nonsense, the economic lies, the broken promises etc. Labour need a labour who is going to resonate with people's desire for a fresh, clean approach to politics not someone who is going to be seen as just another tory. The Tories will always win at being tories.

I think many voters want a government that doesn't interfere in people's lives, thats why people voted tory. Most people get up, go to work, pay their bills etc... and are sick of hearing about the people who don't. Labour are seen as the party of public sector workers or for people with no ambition. Many poorer people vote Tory because they want to achieve in life and labour offers them nothing

[Guest Bilo]

Ballot papers have arrived today and my votes have been well and truly placed - members can vote online to save time and money.

 

Gerritdun people!

[Guest Bilo]

The balanced economic plan, affordable homes, living standards stuff won't get labour elected because nobody believes in any of that rubbish. Swing voters went tory because they thought labour would do the same things as the tories only slightly less effectively. What people really want is an end to all the nonsense, the economic lies, the broken promises etc. Labour need a labour who is going to resonate with people's desire for a fresh, clean approach to politics not someone who is going to be seen as just another tory. The Tories will always win at being tories.

 

None of the policies I listed are trying to Out Tory the Tories, quite the opposite. I've voted for AB because he offers a real, and electable, alternative to the Tories. We need to look outwards and not inwards, and I feel Corbynmania is doing the latter. I don't see how anyone who properly looks at what he wants to achieve could see Burnham as a Tory.

[The Horse's Mouth]

we get it Bilo, you don't like Jeremy Corbyn

[Guest Bilo]

we get it Bilo, you don't like Jeremy Corbyn

 

Here's the thing, I don't dislike the guy. He's conducted a positive campaign, shown integrity and engaged a lot of people. It's gone well for him for a reason.

 

I agree with a lot of what he says, but he doesn't have to convince people like me who'll vote Labour regardless. My concern is that he won't change the minds of soft Tories, UKIP voters, floating voters or maintain his engagement of people who didn't vote for the entirety of a Parliament. 

 

Also, the way his supporters have conducted themselves has been nothing short of an embarrassment. I wouldn't want Labour's greatest strength, our supporters, to turn into our Achilles' Heel but the abuse and vitriol spewed by Corbynites could wind up doing exactly that.

[Danno]

I think many voters want a government that doesn't interfere in people's lives, thats why people voted tory. Most people get up, go to work, pay their bills etc... and are sick of hearing about the people who don't. Labour are seen as the party of public sector workers or for people with no ambition. Many poorer people vote Tory because they want to achieve in life and labour offers them nothing

Do you post this shit on auto loop or something?

[Frank to be]

I think many voters want a government that doesn't interfere in people's lives, thats why people voted tory. Most people get up, go to work, pay their bills etc... and are sick of hearing about the people who don't. Labour are seen as the party of public sector workers or for people with no ambition. Many poorer people vote Tory because they want to achieve in life and labour offers them nothing

If people didnt want interference in their lives I'm surprised they voted for a man who openly stated that he didn't believe the common public should be allowed to have private conversations, and has overseen illegal invasions into the privacy of the public including peering into people's Web cams. Make no mistake this is a guy who would have you in ball and chains if he thought he could get away with it.

The aspirational tory vote is a con as well. The Tories have added a marginal amount onto gdp via the failure of their immigration policies. Wages are still well below where they where ten years ago after inflation, meanwhile CEO pay has skyrocketed and inequality is increasing. Think about that again, ordinary people are significantly poorer, while the extreme wealthy are better off. That's not the kind of result the aspirational voter would want, yet that's exactly what the tories consistently deliver.

[Guest MattP]

Burnham getting seriously desperate now, offering a cabinet role for Corbyn.

This is only going to get madder.