Next Leader of the Opposition

[leicsmac]

and why were at it ban planes, tanks, guns and sharp sticks and the world can be a really safe place. How do you know we won't get threatened by a nuclear power in the future if we don't have them. Would Russia have annexed the Crimea if they had them?

 

All threats of nuclear reprisal are by their very definition hollow, because any world leader with at least half a brain knows exactly where that ends.

 

If we were to give up our nukes and then be targetted, we would either be allied closely enough with another nuclear power that they would respond on our behalf or we wouldn't be the only one on the hit list. Either way, it would end up like some of the more dire passages in early religious texts.

 

I've given this justification a few times on here now, that was the quick version. This day and age, we don't need nukes.

[Guest MattP]

All threats of nuclear reprisal are by their very definition hollow, because any world leader with at least half a brain knows exactly where that ends.

 

If we were to give up our nukes and then be targetted, we would either be allied closely enough with another nuclear power that they would respond on our behalf or we wouldn't be the only one on the hit list. Either way, it would end up like some of the more dire passages in early religious texts.

 

I've given this justification a few times on here now, that was the quick version. This day and age, we don't need nukes.

 

Surely if we give up our nukes on a moral basis we wouldn't hide behind somebody elses anyway?

[leicsmac]

Surely if we give up our nukes on a moral basis we wouldn't hide behind somebody elses anyway?

 

We probably wouldn't, but I would think that if (heavens forbid) the UK were nuked then another country (the US as it stands right now) would probably respond on general principle. 

 

In any case, I honestly think that a situation where it was the UK and the UK alone that was targetted would be deeply unlikely given that the major nuclear players have nations they dislike far more than us, especially if we disarm.

[Guest MattP]

We probably wouldn't, but I would think that if (heavens forbid) the UK were nuked then another country (the US as it stands right now) would probably respond on general principle. 

 

In any case, I honestly think that a situation where it was the UK and the UK alone that was targetted would be deeply unlikely given that the major nuclear players have nations they dislike far more than us, especially if we disarm.

Think I'd still rather protect ourselves to be honest, the idea of having to be subservient to the USA as we rely on their help is something we should be stopping not encouraging.

 

This country in modern times has always had the capability to defend itself, I've not seen an argument yet strong enough for wanting to change that on either nuclear weapons or a European army.

[Rincewind]

Would nukes stop us being hit? What good would it do responding? By the time we fire ours it will be too late. If we are not a threat to others they wont be a threat to us.

[Guest MattP]

Stolen off Facebook. Too funny, it's only a matter of time before someone even more left than Corbyn comes along and then it will be time for him to join the Tories.

 

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/the-worst-four-letter-word?utm_term=.jvBAQKBnA#.lw84VYebl0

[Guest Bilo]

Stolen off Facebook. Too funny, it's only a matter of time before someone even more left than Corbyn comes along and then it will be time for him to join the Tories.

 

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/the-worst-four-letter-word?utm_term=.jvBAQKBnA#.lw84VYebl0

 

When even Buzzfeed are laughing at us, you know it's been a stupid election campaign.

 

I'm torn between thinking September 12th can't come soon enough and dreading it.

[leicsmac]

Stolen off Facebook. Too funny, it's only a matter of time before someone even more left than Corbyn comes along and then it will be time for him to join the Tories.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/the-worst-four-letter-word?utm_term=.jvBAQKBnA#.lw84VYebl0

Even I think number 20 is pushing it a bit there. ::

[Guest Bilo]

Even I think number 20 is pushing it a bit there. : :

 

It's how stupid the election has become though. 

 

The Corbynites really do come across as a nasty and dim bunch on social media.

[Finnegan]

So do Burnham, Cooper and Kendall.

 

[Guest MattP]

It's getting worse.

 

 

[Guest Bilo]

 

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/24816/liz_kendall/leicester_west/votes#welfare

[Guest MattP]

It's how stupid the election has become though. 

 

The Corbynites really do come across as a nasty and dim bunch on social media.

 

Great for us though, it's confirming to everyone what we've known for a long time, the hard left really are a nasty, vile, irrational little bunch of toads.

[Guest Bilo]

It's getting worse.

 

 

 

That takes stupidity to previously uncharted levels!  

Great for us though, it's confirming to everyone what we've known for a long time, the hard left really are a nasty, vile, irrational little bunch of toads.

 

Where does that leaves us moderate lefties?

 

The fvckers.

[leicsmac]

It's how stupid the election has become though.

The Corbynites really do come across as a nasty and dim bunch on social media.

Yup. Just goes to show that extreme views, whatever the ideology, aren't a good thing. Tolkein had it right when he made Melkor not a Lord of Darkness, or Evil, or whatever, but a Lord of extremes.

And social media is a veritable showcase of extreme views.

[Darkon84]

This whole farce is becoming so damaging to politics and ridiculous now. The flood of people who have no clue and just throw insults around is beyond a joke. I feel terrible for the actual Labour supporters who will no doubt have their head in their hands wondering how it all went wrong, once Corbyn gets elected and the thrill of the ride wears off.

[Finnegan]

It's getting worse.

 

 

 

 

lol

[Guest MattP]

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/24816/liz_kendall/leicester_west/votes#welfare

 

A read of that just shows how ludicrous the whole "Kendall is a Tory" argument is, slander politics at it's worst.

 

Where does that leaves us moderate lefties?

 

Unfortunately tarred by association if Corbyn gets in, I do feel for you, the proper long term members who have been door knocking and campaigning for years are who the party belongs too, how it's just been allowed to be hijacked like this by people who have been nothing to do with the party (if at all) for years is scandalous.

[Finnegan]

A read of that just shows how ludicrous the whole "Kendall is a Tory" argument is, slander politics at it's worst.

 

 

Unfortunately tarred by association if Corbyn gets in, I do feel for you, the proper long term members who have been door knocking and campaigning for years are who the party belongs too, how it's just been allowed to be hijacked like this by people who have been nothing to do with the party (if at all) for years is scandalous.

 

Eh, politics moves in cycles. How many people left when the party drifted in from the left? Instigated student fees? Invaded Iraq?

 

[Guest Bilo]

This whole farce is becoming so damaging to politics and ridiculous now. The flood of people who have no clue and just throw insults around is beyond a joke. I feel terrible for the actual Labour supporters who will no doubt have their head in their hands wondering how it all went wrong, once Corbyn gets elected and the thrill of the ride wears off.

 

The infuriating thing is that a lot of these dishing out the abuse have made a net contribution to the party of calling other members, many of whom have knocked on doors and delivered leaflets in all weathers, Tories for not being sufficiently left-wing. It's beyond parody that many of those on social media openly admit to have voted Green as recently as May, then spout about 'Real Labour Values' and how Burnham, Cooper and Kendall don't have them.

[Guest Bilo]

Eh, politics moves in cycles. How many people left when the party drifted in from the left? Instigated student fees? Invaded Iraq?

 

 

That's a fair point, I guess.

 

I don't want to denigrate new members, in fact I wish to welcome them with open arms, but any member telling other members that they're Tory scum and other pejoratives needs to pipe down, whether they've been in the party for twenty years or twenty days. 

 

Labour's a broad church, and we all want the same thing - a Labour government. 

[Guest MattP]

Eh, politics moves in cycles. How many people left when the party drifted in from the left? Instigated student fees? Invaded Iraq?

 

But Corbyn remained a member of this party while all these things happened, surely he's as guilty as all the other 'Tories' in it. I know people will have left the Labour party for all sorts of reasons over the years but to just then walk back in because an old dinosaur tries to wrestle it back to it's past whilst abusing all the long term members just seems very out of order to me.

 

It's a repeat of the Green party hijacking a few years back when all the bourgeous bohemians and closet communists decided to have a crack at running at City and migrated to Brighton Pavilion.

[Darkon84]

The infuriating thing is that a lot of these dishing out the abuse have made a net contribution to the party of calling other members, many of whom have knocked on doors and delivered leaflets in all weathers, Tories for not being sufficiently left-wing. It's beyond parody that many of those on social media openly admit to have voted Green as recently as May, then spout about 'Real Labour Values' and how Burnham, Cooper and Kendall don't have them.

 

 

Precisely, there's so many who have piled on the bandwagon and think it's acceptable to start throwing these insults around. The problem is, these are the ones who will quickly lose interest and walk away, leaving people like yourself or active party members to pick up the pieces. There probably should have been stricter quidelines in order to sign up or lodge a vote, but I think that topic has been done to death. Everyone just needs to keep their fingers crossed that somehow, sense prevails.

[Christoph]

and why were at it ban planes, tanks, guns and sharp sticks and the world can be a really safe place. How do you know we won't get threatened by a nuclear power in the future if we don't have them. Would Russia have annexed the Crimea if they had them?

 

You realise that most countries around the world don't  have nuclear weapons right? Do you think they're quaking in their boots because of it? If we get hit by a nuke (god forbid), chucking one back at a contry with nukes...what do you think is going to happen then? The other country responds by nuking us back with an even bigger bomb. So what should we do? I know...bomb them back with an even bigger one. Que..end of the world. 

 

Yeh dont think we need to live in some dodgey doctor strange love fantasy. 2 billion a year could be better spent on so many other things. Thats 2000 million pound a year!!! Can you imagine what that money could be spent on. All of the schools, hospitals, extra policing. Nah lets leave it in case Russia wants to turn Earth into a Fallout game so we can beat them to it. 

 

Nukes are not the answer for anything. I wouldnt even want us to retaliate a nuclear strike with one of our own. It would just rip the rug right off our civilization. 

[Frank to be]

I'm getting quite an undemocratic vibe from the more right wing labour supporters. If the people want corbyn and a chance at proper left wing politics instead of what is, let's face it, tory-lite, then that's what the people should get. There's a lot of insults being aimed at corbyn fans in the same way as insults are being thrown at the right wing labour lot. Ultimately labour should be a left wing party. I get the feeling a lot of those opposed to corbyn are so for very selfish reasons, which isn't left wing at all.