Webbo Posted 14 July 2015 Posted 14 July 2015 Football operates on two basic levels, tribalism and success. Currently our merchandise sells only to the 'tribe', we could market the **** out of the club and still no **** outside of the shire would buy the stuff. Man City and Chelsea had this very same problem, they didn't 'grow' their clubs, they financially doped the living shit out of them until they became some distrorted freak which was impossible to ignore. If we want into 'the big 6' then there is no 'growing', no well laid plan, no magically 'believing' bean we can take, we'd need to spend obscene amounts of money and keep spending obscene amounts of money until we achieved success, then and only then can we consider 'growing the club'. The Costa analogy is bullshit. It is snake oil. It is a motivational poster stuck on a wall of a no mark company. And that, in a nutshell, is that. Nothing wrong with dreaming though Baggers.
RedSoxUK Posted 14 July 2015 Posted 14 July 2015 I'm afraid Fleckney is right with this. You need to spend copious amounts of money, like, 60m in summer, 20m in winter for the next 4 years before even thinking about maintaining a top 6 position. And even then, you need to invest it wisely... cause if you don't achieve a highly placed position, you can be screwed.
Deucalion Posted 14 July 2015 Posted 14 July 2015 I'd rather see the owners go for top 6 and accept the risk which comes with that than be content to be fighting relegation every year, until one bad season we are back in the Championship. Can Leicester be a top 6 club, it has been in the past, and the only way we will find out is to try.
fleckneymike Posted 14 July 2015 Posted 14 July 2015 I'd rather see the owners go for top 6 and accept the risk which comes with that than be content to be fighting relegation every year, until one bad season we are back in the Championship. Can Leicester be a top 6 club, it has been in the past, and the only way we will find out is to try. We've finished in the top 6 four times in our entire history. FOUR. 62/63, 60/61, 28/29, 27/28 I think we might be stretching the implied meaning of 'it has been in the past' beyond crediblity. I am not saying we can never be a top six side, but to say we can 'grow' into one is utter drivel.
Bagworthblue Posted 14 July 2015 Author Posted 14 July 2015 you know guys i'm full of flu so no energy for an argument right now. yes, i know, I did write war and peace, it was a considered post based on experience and you can benchmark across industries - you just take what is relevant. What I am taking from my dearest Fleckers (who I have obviously rubbed up the wrong way recently) is that we have 2 choices 1] throw millions after millions at it year in year out to succeed 2] Do nothing, work within you budget and try to survive by best you can which is the one you recommend Fleckers? I'm not really too keen on either of those if i'm being honest. - 1] is unsustainable and unrealistic as our owners don't have Ambramovic's money and 2] will result in an eventual drop to the lower leagues as you are doing nothing different or likely even less than the other teams Maybe it is just me but I feel we have ambitious owners, I can see what they are trying to do which is an option 3 - sustained investment to grow the fanbase and club and you know what, I have a lot more respect for people who try than people who just accept things are the way they are don't even bother putting effort into trying to change them but can live with such folk - we are all prone to some passive negativity. To take it a step further and fight against ambition is something I struggle to comprehend as it proactive negativity hey ho - I expected negative responses so I can't complain. right gonna go die slowly from Man flu
Frank to be Posted 14 July 2015 Posted 14 July 2015 Inckley would have taken five paragraphs just to explain what coffee is
Bagworthblue Posted 14 July 2015 Author Posted 14 July 2015 I keep thinking you're Inckley fox, Bagworth... you know what, I'm dead laid back normally . It appears I seem to have got passionate about some things lately and that surprises me. I am 43 and immature Mr silly one minute and the next minute, I am Mr Serious. Think most people call that ****ed up! I'm not too keen on Mr Serious tbh- prefer the Mr Silly kid in me but he appears to be dying off slowly
enmac Posted 14 July 2015 Posted 14 July 2015 I find this totally depressing. I don't mind if LCFC never conquer the world. All I want is Leicester to play beautifull football. Not super-rich, just wealthy enough to not have to sell their best players. In a perfect world the fans would "own" the club and the majority of players would be "home-grown." Amen Sent from my BNTV600 using Tapatalk
Hirsty The Blue 94 Posted 15 July 2015 Posted 15 July 2015 FleckneyMike has got this nailed on. The only way we can break the top 6 barrier is by throwing shit loads of money and hoping enough shit sticks to get us up the table. The gamble ofcourse is that if the person in charge of spending the money is incompetent it can lead to very expensive mistakes.The second option is to accept what we are, and always have been for the majority of our history. People think just because we have rich owners we have a divine right to success. Well about 15 other clubs have equally rich and ambitious owners, and they can't all get what they want. Call it lacking ambition but I was delighted with the way the club was being run from top to bottom under Pearson and his team. We were progressing in every facet as a club in terms of style, sellable assets etc. Sooner of later though we would have hit a glass ceiling, but I was more than happy for us to sit in the middle of the table playing the kind of football we play, with the personality of players we had and the atmosphere created between fan and player and manager. I fear the club is heading in a dangerous path in attempting to break the glass ceiling, and these next couple of seasons could be a turbulent ride.
Dynamogoon Posted 15 July 2015 Posted 15 July 2015 No it's not !! Pearson proves that !! He would've been sacked in most, if not all businesses with his behaviour , other than FOOTBALL !! Football is also a non profitable business in some clubs , some clubs in fact lose money knowing they'll lose it !! That's not a normal business , you're completely wrong !! I would have been sacked after the FOAD incident for deffo
TheLittleBigMan Posted 15 July 2015 Posted 15 July 2015 Does this mean we're not gonna get ripped off anymore?
fleckneymike Posted 15 July 2015 Posted 15 July 2015 you know guys i'm full of flu so no energy for an argument right now. yes, i know, I did write war and peace, it was a considered post based on experience and you can benchmark across industries - you just take what is relevant. What I am taking from my dearest Fleckers (who I have obviously rubbed up the wrong way recently) is that we have 2 choices 1] throw millions after millions at it year in year out to succeed 2] Do nothing, work within you budget and try to survive by best you can which is the one you recommend Fleckers? I'm not really too keen on either of those if i'm being honest. - 1] is unsustainable and unrealistic as our owners don't have Ambramovic's money and 2] will result in an eventual drop to the lower leagues as you are doing nothing different or likely even less than the other teams Maybe it is just me but I feel we have ambitious owners, I can see what they are trying to do which is an option 3 - sustained investment to grow the fanbase and club and you know what, I have a lot more respect for people who try than people who just accept things are the way they are don't even bother putting effort into trying to change them but can live with such folk - we are all prone to some passive negativity. To take it a step further and fight against ambition is something I struggle to comprehend as it proactive negativity hey ho - I expected negative responses so I can't complain. right gonna go die slowly from Man flu You've very kindly provided three loaded options where only your solution is the one with any benefits, if it's all the same to you I'll choose non of the above.
Bagworthblue Posted 15 July 2015 Author Posted 15 July 2015 You've very kindly provided three loaded options where only your solution is the one with any benefits, if it's all the same to you I'll choose non of the above. Please could you provide me with your option on how we go forwards? You disagree with my view of growing the club, and also with the option you presented(not as your suggestion) earlier in terms of spend like crazy and you disagree with the do 'nothing option' carry on as we have always done approach I'm really not up for a fight today Fleckers but I only seem to get the butt of your negativity, and no counter proposals Be great to get your view bud?
fleckneymike Posted 15 July 2015 Posted 15 July 2015 Please could you provide me with your option on how we go forwards? You disagree with my view of growing the club, and also with the option you presented(not as your suggestion) earlier in terms of spend like crazy and you disagree with the do 'nothing option' carry on as we have always done approach I'm really not up for a fight today Fleckers but I only seem to get the butt of your negativity, and no counter proposals Be great to get your view bud? I think you are confusing matters. Any 'negativity' is directed at your Costa proposal it is not negativity towards success. People also seem to mistakenly believe that you can only be against an idea if you have a counter proposal, that is a ludicrous way to behave. A bad idea is a bad idea. Perhaps if you'd used the model of another football club which had broken into the top 6 or 4 of their respective leagues as something we could emulate then you may have received a more favourable response from many of the posters on this thread.
Bagworthblue Posted 15 July 2015 Author Posted 15 July 2015 I think you are confusing matters. Any 'negativity' is directed at your Costa proposal it is not negativity towards success. People also seem to mistakenly believe that you can only be against an idea if you have a counter proposal, that is a ludicrous way to behave. A bad idea is a bad idea. Perhaps if you'd used the model of another football club which had broken into the top 6 or 4 of their respective leagues as something we could emulate then you may have received a more favourable response from many of the posters on this thread. if you read my post, and understood it, I didn't propose we copy the costa model - it's a friggin coffee shop - I proposed that we change our mentality from 'we can never be' to 'we can be' and at least try to match that ambition of our owners. and if i'm honest Fleckers, it is very easy to attack people who put themselves out there and twist or attack their posts but it is so much harder to offer a constructive counter proposal as indeed you are finding. I often read posts and think - nah that's crap, but I then have no alternative suggestion so I either don't post my view or I suggest I don't think it will work but openly admit that I don't have a better idea however. And finally many posters also backed my view so it is not as cut and dry as you infer
fleckneymike Posted 15 July 2015 Posted 15 July 2015 if you read my post, and understood it, I didn't propose we copy the costa model - it's a friggin coffee shop - I proposed that we change our mentality from 'we can never be' to 'we can be' and at least try to match that ambition of our owners. and if i'm honest Fleckers, it is very easy to attack people who put themselves out there and twist or attack their posts but it is so much harder to offer a constructive counter proposal as indeed you are finding. I often read posts and think - nah that's crap, but I then have no alternative suggestion so I either don't post my view or I suggest I don't think it will work but openly admit that I don't have a better idea however. And finally many posters also backed my view so it is not as cut and dry as you infer Why would we, the people who already support the club, already put money into the club and already have and will continue to support the club need to match the aspirations of our owners? The club already had us all at 'hello', we've already got reasonably high aspirations for the club else we wouldn't bother attending matches. We've now covered argumentum ad verecundiam argumentum ad populum argumentum ad misercordiam
Bagworthblue Posted 15 July 2015 Author Posted 15 July 2015 Why would we, the people who already support the club, already put money into the club and already have and will continue to support the club need to match the aspirations of our owners? The club already had us all at 'hello', we've already got reasonably high aspirations for the club else we wouldn't bother attending matches. We've now covered argumentum ad verecundiam argumentum ad populum argumentum ad misercordiam I give up - you have still not grasped my initial point and I have no energy today to simplify it for you or as it happens login to google translate to get latin translations
fleckneymike Posted 15 July 2015 Posted 15 July 2015 I give up - you have still not grasped my initial point and I have no energy today to simplify it for you or as it happens login to google translate to get latin translations I believe this was your initial point The most challenging aspect is winning the hearts and minds of those in and around the organisation that growth can be achieved.
Guest Posted 15 July 2015 Posted 15 July 2015 argumentum ad verecundiam argumentum ad populum argumentum ad misercordiam ladies and gentlemen, we've now reached the latin phase of the argument.
justfoxes Posted 15 July 2015 Posted 15 July 2015 Does this mean we're not gonna get ripped off anymore? No we will always get ripped off we have money and other clubs know it so up the price goes for any player we are linked with Austin for example he is no where worth £15m !
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