The Politics Thread

[The Railway Man]

If you are referring to the  'friends' video made by the Tories to discredit Corbyn, it has to be shown to have been taken out of context. What he actually said was that Saddan not going to trial was a tragedy because the full process of the law was not carried out. And he has said that what ISIS are doing is wrong as are the things that other countries are doing are wrong.

He also said peace was not brought about in Ireland by kicking in doors, it was brought about by a few people coming to an agreement. He has called on Cameron to intervine on a proposed execution in Saudia Arabia which so far he has endorsed.

When not viewed in a biased way and in context what he said in the past would be what most would agree with.

 

No I'm basing it on all the things he has done and said, I havn't seen the video you are on about but I have seen him on Panorama taking to a crowd shouting how he welcomes his friends from Hizbollah and Hamas, I don't really see how that can be taken out of context.

 

Saddam Hussein did go to trial and was hanged, I think you mean Bin Laden, I have no problem with what he said about Bin Laden although I don't really get where we would have tried him.

 

He keeps claiming it was for peace but he only ever met with one side, be it the IRA or Hamas, no one with a brain believes this, you dont invite people to the HOC days after they have tried to blow up the countries democratic government.

 

If you seriously think most of the World agree with this sort of stuff you need your head examined.

 

With stuff like this, is it really surprising that some people around the world might be a little bit annoyed at UK foreign policy - in the past and in the present - and therefore want to cause us harm?

 

You don't seriously think that these people want to do us harm because we are voting with the Saudi's to secure us a place at a table surely?

 

The who Iraq war is being overplayed really, yes it's done us no good but 9/11 was long before that, Islamists have been and wanting to do damage to the liberal West for centuries.

[Rincewind]

Bit weird from that Holmes, if he wants to be Andrew Neil he needs to do the same amount of research as him and hit him with facts.

Came across as lazy and sounded like he'd spent about ten minutes preparing.

Sounds like he wanted to provoke a reaction so to get in the headlines but it backfired big time.

[The Railway Man]

[The Horse's Mouth]

[leicsmac]

Yes I would certainly find it surprising if some people were translating some mildly shifty international politics into a desire to physically harm innocent civilians.

 

Hence my use of the term "like this". This alone might not cause ill feeling, but interfering in the politics of several nations for decades (including carving up the ME with the Americans post WW2) and ensuring the placement of sympathetic-to-the-West, iron fisted leaders with a ready hand on the oil taps (like in Saudi) might.

 

 

 

You don't seriously think that these people want to do us harm because we are voting with the Saudi's to secure us a place at a table surely?

 

The who Iraq war is being overplayed really, yes it's done us no good but 9/11 was long before that, Islamists have been and wanting to do damage to the liberal West for centuries.

 

See above.

 

And if you want to go really far back, then Europe was just as theocratic, warlike and expansionist as the Islamic caliphates around at the time - just worshipped a different deity.

 

It's a cycle of attack and retaliation and until everyone gets used to the idea that we are all in fact human fvcking beings and all of this is petty, ludicrous ideology-driven bullshit, then sadly it will keep going.

[Guest]

 

You seem to really not like the guy, a bit like you dislike of Simpson. How do you feel about Jamie Vardy?

[The Railway Man]

Hence my use of the term "like this". This alone might not cause ill feeling, but interfering in the politics of several nations for decades (including carving up the ME with the Americans post WW2) and ensuring the placement of sympathetic-to-the-West, iron fisted leaders with a ready hand on the oil taps (like in Saudi) might.

 

And if you want to go really far back, then Europe was just as theocratic, warlike and expansionist as the Islamic caliphates around at the time - just worshipped a different deity.

 

It's a cycle of attack and retaliation and until everyone gets used to the idea that we are all in fact human fvcking beings and all of this is petty, ludicrous ideology-driven bullshit, then sadly it will keep going.

 

You seem to be missing the point here though, yes we were like that but we are long past it, there are large groups in the middle east still doing the things we stopped doing hundreds of years ago.

 

I agree with you on the last sentence, but unfortunately Europe appears intent on turning back into that sort of place with it's current attitude to who it lets arrive and settle here. A great shame that our generation will be shamed for.

 

You seem to really not like the guy, a bit like you dislike of Simpson. How do you feel about Jamie Vardy?

 

I like him, he's made mistakes but made an effort to rectofy them.

 

No I don't like Corbyn, I have family in Ulster and know exactly people like him are like. I also don't like wife-beaters either, does that clear up your question?

[Rincewind]

I think even Corbyn would have a smile at that then get on with the serious issues.

He even joked about the media saying that he would welcome an asteroid hitting earth and wiping mankind out. Shows how serious he takes the rubbish that is spouted about him.

[leicsmac]

You seem to be missing the point here though, yes we were like that but we are long past it, there are large groups in the middle east still doing the things we stopped doing hundreds of years ago.

 

I agree with you on the last sentence, but unfortunately Europe appears intent on turning back into that sort of place with it's current attitude to who it lets arrive and settle here. A great shame that our generation will be shamed for.

 

 

I like him, he's made mistakes but made an effort to rectofy them.

 

No I don't like Corbyn, I have family in Ulster and know exactly people like him are like. I also don't like wife-beaters either, does that clear up your question?

 

Hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis (yes, I know that's just one place) plus many more thousands across central America due to foreign policy decisions made in the name of ideology there beg to differ. Just because the killing isn't overtly done by fighters wearing the Union Flag or the Stars and Bars and that Western methods are more sophisticated than going somewhere and blowing people up (most of the time anyway) doesn't mean that there isn't an element of responsibility. 

 

Realpolitik is a filthy business and everyone is digging in the muck - which is why I honestly don't get the idea that any one nation holds the moral high ground. 

 

Perhaps one day we'll get over the petty differences caused by arbitrary lines on a map or some words a group of blokes wrote in several different books hundreds or thousands of years ago. Or we won't and we'll end up going extinct as a result, in which case I sincerely hope we don't take much of the Earth with us.

[The Railway Man]

Hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis (yes, I know that's just one place) plus many more thousands across central America due to foreign policy decisions made in the name of ideology there beg to differ. Just because the killing isn't overtly done by fighters wearing the Union Flag or the Stars and Bars and that Western methods are more sophisticated than going somewhere and blowing people up (most of the time anyway) doesn't mean that there isn't an element of responsibility. 

 

Realpolitik is a filthy business and everyone is digging in the muck - which is why I honestly don't get the idea that any one nation holds the moral high ground. 

 

Perhaps one day we'll get over the petty differences caused by arbitrary lines on a map or some words a group of blokes wrote in several different books hundreds or thousands of years ago. Or we won't and we'll end up going extinct as a result, in which case I sincerely hope we don't take much of the Earth with us.

 

We didn't go to war in Iraq based on religious ideology, we went to war based on the lie Labour told to the house that Saddam has WMD.

 

Again I agree with the last thing you say and I actually thought we were getting there about 10-15 years ago, I remember walking around Leicester and London thinking how secular we were becoming as a country, a walk through either town now and you think the opposite again, spreading millions of people from the World's most fanatical religion really does seem a strange way to try and move towards the society you (and me) actually want.

 

Our actions seems to completely go against what we are trying to achieve.

[leicsmac]

We didn't go to war in Iraq based on religious ideology, we went to war based on the lie Labour told to the house that Saddam has WMD.

 

Again I agree with the last thing you say and I actually thought we were getting there about 10-15 years ago, I remember walking around Leicester and London thinking how secular we were becoming as a country, a walk through either town now and you think the opposite again, spreading millions of people from the World's most fanatical religion really does seem a strange way to try and move towards the society you (and me) actually want.

 

Our actions seems to completely go against what we are trying to achieve.

 

Absolutely, a lie based on ideology. Not religious ideology, but ideology nonetheless.

 

Personally I think the best way to get over those differences is to be able to interact with those people that you have the differences with and find out that they're actually little different from yourselves. Separating yourself from them (especially when you're doing it in their own country) is stupid and yes, that is a big problem with a fair proportion of the Islamic community in this country. And then you have the rabble rousers on all sides wanting to push for additional division and conflict because...well, because they're fvcking sociopaths. 

 

Hopefully in time there will be more interaction and we'll get to a point when people actually start to think..."hey, hating like this is really bloody stupid, isn't it?"

[The Railway Man]

Absolutely, a lie based on ideology. Not religious ideology, but ideology nonetheless.

 

Personally I think the best way to get over those differences is to be able to interact with those people that you have the differences with and find out that they're actually little different from yourselves. Separating yourself from them (especially when you're doing it in their own country) is stupid and yes, that is a big problem with a fair proportion of the Islamic community in this country. And then you have the rabble rousers on all sides wanting to push for additional division and conflict because...well, because they're fvcking sociopaths. 

 

Hopefully in time there will be more interaction and we'll get to a point when people actually start to think..."hey, hating like this is really bloody stupid, isn't it?"

 

Fair play for your optimism but I fear you are chasing a utopia that will end in something far worse and far more disastrous than what we already have.

 

It took a cChristian Europe about a thousand years to achieve a relative peace, fcuk knows what it would take a mixed or Islamic Europe, probably never.

[leicsmac]

Fair play for your optimism but I fear you are chasing a utopia that will end in something far worse and far more disastrous than what we already have.

 

It took a cChristian Europe about a thousand years to achieve a relative peace, fcuk knows what it would take a mixed or Islamic Europe, probably never.

 

I know...but the way I see it, the only alternative is continuous conflict and eventual annihilation as a result of it. I sincerely hope I'm wrong about that, though.

[Guest MattP]

Corbyn is losing his rag again on Sky News now

 

Why are Labour getting themselves into such a twist over Trident? It's being renewed in 2017 anyway isn't it? It won't matter a jot in 2020 what anyone thinks, this was part of the debate at the last election and the vast majority of people voted for parties who want to renew it, the Greens, Plaid, BNP and the SNP opposed it and combined they got a very small part of the vote. Corbyn has gone on record saying he would never press the button anyway so I don't see any point in Labour having it as policy.

 

I presume it's going to be a free vote anyway in the house so it will be passed comfortably.

[Rincewind]

Not sure which thread this should go in but there is more than one story regarding the growing homelessness around Britain. One is about 5 people who were  jailed after being arrested for setting up a shelter and foodbank in an unoccupie building  in Liverpool. . Another is about homeless people facing jail for using tents.

I do not know if this has been reported in the mainstream media but they have been busy with more important news no doubt  like piggate. 

Anyway if you google streets kitchen you will find links if anyone wishes to see it. If you don't it saves me from doing it and  I can use the time doing other things.

[Sharpe's Fox]

Corbyn is losing his rag again on Sky News now

 

Why are Labour getting themselves into such a twist over Trident? It's being renewed in 2017 anyway isn't it? It won't matter a jot in 2020 what anyone thinks, this was part of the debate at the last election and the vast majority of people voted for parties who want to renew it, the Greens, Plaid, BNP and the SNP opposed it and combined they got a very small part of the vote. Corbyn has gone on record saying he would never press the button anyway so I don't see any point in Labour having it as policy.

 

I presume it's going to be a free vote anyway in the house so it will be passed comfortably.

 

I guess its one of those issues that everyone can really debate for either side and there is a servicable argument for both sides, unlike welfare, immigration, NHS etc where everyone near enough says the same thing because if you don't you just serve to piss people off.

[Rincewind]

http://www.communitiesforcorbyn.org/

 

Its open to all to get involved.

[Guest MattP]

I guess its one of those issues that everyone can really debate for either side and there is a servicable argument for both sides, unlike welfare, immigration, NHS etc where everyone near enough says the same thing because if you don't you just serve to piss people off.

 

I think it's a pretty crucial part of the development of the party.

 

I really don't see how Labour can support a nuclear deterrent whilst also campaigning for it's leader to become Prime Minister who openly says he would never press the button anyway whatever the situation. If Labour does come to a consensus they do want Britain to be a nuclear power I don't see how he could continue in his job.

 

Unless the nuclear alternative is coming out of Diane Abbott's arse, which would certainly make me think twice about engaging in warfare.

 

http://www.communitiesforcorbyn.org/

 

Its open to all to get involved.

 

I think that map pretty much sums up why Corbyn will never be elected. I know it's early days but eleven groups set up, six of which are in London and then four others in Glasgow, Liverpool, Birmingham and Nottingham.

 

Are you setting up a Leicester branch Ken? We could do a FT debate night to kick it off in the King's Head.

[Rincewind]

More satire. Thought I'd better warn you in case anyone took this serious.

 

http://newsthump.com/2015/05/18/tories-commit-to-human-rights-act-after-redefining-human-as-earning-over-50k/

[Guest MattP]

What do you see as the "average man on the street" Ken? You might have missed my question yesterday.

[bmt]

http://www.communitiesforcorbyn.org/

 

Its open to all to get involved.

 

Do you know of anyone wanting to set one up around Leicester(shire)? I would be very interested in joining.

[Rincewind]

I think it's a pretty crucial part of the development of the party.

 

I really don't see how Labour can support a nuclear deterrent whilst also campaigning for it's leader to become Prime Minister who openly says he would never press the button anyway whatever the situation. If Labour does come to a consensus they do want Britain to be a nuclear power I don't see how he could continue in his job.

 

Unless the nuclear alternative is coming out of Diane Abbott's arse, which would certainly make me think twice about engaging in warfare.

 

 

I think that map pretty much sums up why Corbyn will never be elected. I know it's early days but eleven groups set up, six of which are in London and then four others in Glasgow, Liverpool, Birmingham and Nottingham.

 

Are you setting up a Leicester branch Ken? We could do a FT debate night to kick it off in the King's Head.

It is early days. Its not been launched for long. I am sure there will be Leicester groups  of people that work within the community from all political backgrounds who may be interested.

[Guest MattP]

Wouldn't it just be easier to join your local Labour party?

[Rincewind]

Do you know of anyone wanting to set one up around Leicester(shire)? I would be very interested in joining.

Not yet. I sent the link to someone I know who works and deals with a homeless and housing advisory service organisation.

[bmt]

Wouldn't it just be easier to join your local Labour party?

 

I am and will continue to be a Green party member; this idea is about challenging policies Corbyn is against at a community level regardless of political affiliation (I expect to avoid alienating prospective Labour voters in the Green party and SNP).