The Monetary System

[cityfanlee23]

If the private banks want to pay large bonuses then why shouldn't they? If they think the staff are worth it then good for them. It's not your money or mine so we don't have any right to tell them what they should do with it.

How do we not have a right to tell them what to do with it it when you have to bail them out? they put 100 million people into poverty globally How can you not get that... If a bank has to be bailed out to the tune of billions how can they justify bonuses? 

It's the private banks that got us into this mess of rising housing prices and cost of living meaning people are STILL in poverty in 2015.

 

The financial service sector has propped up the UK economy for decades. It's the only major thing we're really good at anymore. I'd rather those companies operated in the UK and paid UK based staff large bonuses than watch them pack up and move to frankfurt or Hong Kong because all the top talent have left the country to go where they still pay large bonuses.

 

Absolute rubbish, you think HSBC etc will leave? Rubbish. 

You think costa/starbucks will leave if we forced them to pay more tax, come on.... I voted conservative, but that's the blatant tory spin people are falling for.

[cityfanlee23]

Even if worse case scenario they do leave, another bank will just take their customers and double their profits, people need banks and they will always be here.

 

Metro Bank are already starting to offer better interest rates than some of the big 4, and they have only been going for 5 years, have outgrown their projections, and staff levels are rocketing.

 

If HSBC want to leave, fine... Their customers still need a bank, the uk will still make the same amount in taxes (not enough)

customers will just go to another bank.

[cityfanlee23]

In the last tax year HSBC made £12.6bn 

a fall of 17%

 

So they streamlined the bank, closing 77 businesses and axing 50,000 staff..... 

 

Then gave themselves bonuses for a job well done         

 

Let them go, I'll pack for them, They manipulate markets, cause market bubbles like the housing bubble which destroyed the lives of millions and millions of people, make extortionate profits, avoid taxes, and then use the public purse to bail themselves out, all because we know that if we don't bail them out, the consequences will be worse. 

 

They have us over a barrel so they can piss off for all I care, maybe people will start to realize how these people use their money and risk it all for profit, and start putting their money into much safer avenues like building societies, which are far less corrupt.

[MooseBreath]

Like I said the bailed out banks are subject to restrictions on bonuses. Private banks aren't, but why should they be. Private businesses should have the freedom to decide what they pay their staff.

By claiming that banks "destroyed millions and millions of lives" you're just being absolutely ridiculous. Who are these people whose lives have been destroyed by banks? If there's millions of them we should all know at least one of them, but I don't know any and I've never even heard of any.

On banks moving, it isn't the retail banks we need to worry about, they'll still be here but they don't make anywhere near as much as the investment and financial service departments, which can and would move if all the top talent left the country.

Even if you're right and money is a scam that is definitely going to collapse, why are you so bothered by bankers bonuses?

You're talking a boatload of shit in this thread, Lee.

[cityfanlee23]

Like I said the bailed out banks are subject to restrictions on bonuses. Private banks aren't, but why should they be. Private businesses should have the freedom to decide what they pay their staff.

They ALL contributed to the banking crash, not just the ones that are bailed out. 

Until they are reformed they should have even bigger restrictions on them all.

By claiming that banks "destroyed millions and millions of lives" you're just being absolutely ridiculous. Who are these people whose lives have been destroyed by banks? If there's millions of them we should all know at least one of them, but I don't know any and I've never even heard of any.

100,000,000 were put into poverty by the banking crises. If you think that's ridiculous and don't believe it just because you don't know someone personally, it's the biggest global recession in history, Look at the amount of staff who lost jobs because of bankruptcy/liquidation.. that's just a tiny fraction.... you're so out of touch it's actually embarrassing. 

On banks moving, it isn't the retail banks we need to worry about, they'll still be here but they don't make anywhere near as much as the investment and financial service departments, which can and would move if all the top talent left the country.

What are you on about?? 83% of the £1.2trillion of all private money created 97-07 did not even go into investment!! 7% of the investment based lending went into businesses... how is that investment when 83% of the money created by these institutions is for private profit and pushing housing bubbles etc.

Even if you're right and money is a scam that is definitely going to collapse, why are you so bothered by bankers bonuses?

It won't collapse if it's reformed... that's obvious.

You're talking a boatload of shit in this thread, Lee.

You're so out of touch it's embarrassing.. You tried to argue that housing prices were not pushed up by banks, which is the biggest ot of crap i've seen in my life, and goes against what major economists have said, and the majority of MP's with a brain. 

You seriously don't know what you're talking about, you seem content on just going along with the sheeple, and are actually using Tory regurgitated spin to defend it... "Restrictions" on banks that had to be bailed out for their mess, and you defend it, priceless.

[cityfanlee23]

If the creation of money is taken away from those that profit from it the most, and given to an independent unbiased body, to balance the economy, and give larger investment into infrastructure, business and overall prosperity, 

Then the private banks can give their bonuses, they can throw money down the toilet for all I care, because we know they have made their profits fairly.

 

You know people are brainwashed, when they accept the fact that a bank can make over £12bn profit, and still shut shops and sack staff, and think it's okay...

The current system of banks risking tax payers money to speculate and manipulate, then forcing us to bail them out when it goes wrong is corrupt and astoundingly accepted by too many people.

 

As I said, Take the power of money creation away from private banks (As John F Kennedy tried to in executive order 11110 right before he was assassinated)

And they can make their profits, this is basic fairness. You don't cut a hedge from the bottom up.

[MooseBreath]

jesus, I give up. You're all over the place. My advice: stay off the dodgy blogs and read some respectable literature. There's some reasonable points hidden deep within your gibberish but they're so covered in jumbled up whacko nonsense that a proper discussion is impossible.

[cityfanlee23]

jesus, I give up. You're all over the place. My advice: stay off the dodgy blogs and read some respectable literature. There's some reasonable points hidden deep within your gibberish but they're so covered in jumbled up whacko nonsense that a proper discussion is impossible.

 

 

No Moose, you just talk alot of crap and don't understand what you're talking about. 

 

What you advocate is not justifiable in the first place, The fact you refuse to believe that bank funny money pushed up housing is astonishing, it's basic economics.

From that point it was clear you could not grasp it. 

You talk about their investment etc but don't even know the fractional figure these banks put into constructive investment, When i tell you that you're statement is rubbish with a figure (which you can easily check) you give up. 

 

Point being, you call it jumbled up whacko nonsense, but you aren't coming back with anything other than an acceptance of the crap that these private banks are dishing out. 

 

Have a watch, you might learn something about private bank money creation (Take special note on housing price manipulation)

 

 

Good day to you.

[Rincewind]

That is a Labour MP so Moose will regard it as rubbish, put his hands over his ears whilst shaking his head and shouting 'No, no no I don't want to hear this' in a mad demonic voice.

 

I have noticed there is more interest from FT posters on this subject than the MP's according to the attendees in that video.

[cityfanlee23]

That is a Labour MP so Moose will regard it as rubbish, put his hands over his ears whilst shaking his head and shouting 'No, no no I don't want to hear this' in a mad demonic voice.

 

 

You'd be surprised Rince, The man who actually starts the debate "Steve Baker" is a Conservative, He was the one who managed to get the debate, the first debate in 170 years! (not sure why the image is from the labour speech which is about 30 mins in! 

[cityfanlee23]

the 97% owned Documentary from "Positive money" which explains our entire monetary system, and the damage from uncontrolled private bank creation causes on the 99%' average daily life. 

EDIT - Must mention because any arsehole can make a youtube video. 

 

*Featuring qualified economists 

 

[Rincewind]

You'd be surprised Rince, The man who actually starts the debate "Steve Baker" is a Conservative, He was the one who managed to get the debate, the first debate in 170 years! (not sure why the image is from the labour speech which is about 30 mins in! 

Yes sorry about that. I was going on that and thought it would only be a minute or two long. I am not watching two hours of it.

[cityfanlee23]

Yes sorry about that. I was going on that and thought it would only be a minute or two long. I am not watching two hours of it.

 

I'm on my own today so I just stick something like that on whilst I work.

[Izzy]

I'm on my own today so I just stick something like that on whilst I work.

 

Like you said before Lee, you definitely need a girlfriend mate!

[cityfanlee23]

Like you said before Lee, you definitely need a girlfriend mate!

 

I don't need a girlfriend, I've found Love                 

[Merging Cultures]

I very much enjoyed that discussion. It was a shame more politicians weren't there.

[ozleicester]

Sadly there isnt really a viable alternative, the best option for me was to recognise the bullshit and try to avoid being suckered by it.

 

The banks and governments encourage and survive on an explosion of consumerism, you need the next phone, TV, house etc etc. and of course you cant just buy one that does what you want, it has to have the right brand stuck on the side of it... that brand doubles or triples the cost.

 

Buy your stuff from Ali Express. Dont upgrade your phone just because you can, and dont buy a brand when you can buy the a product that can do the same job for half the price. The difference in the picture on your Samsung TV is barely noticeable and not worth the double price youve paid compared to the "Alba" next door and anyway youll probably chuck it in 4 years when they add a "new" purple bezel to the range.

 

Our society is set up to exploit brand whores and the easily led... so those of us not bothered by them can actually do OK

 

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/30087996/gucci-ysl-others-suing-alibaba-back-down-on-mediation-threat/

[Raj]

Lee sees off Webbo and Webbo tags Moose.... Round 2!!!

[Webbo]

Sadly there isnt really a viable alternative, the best option for me was to recognise the bullshit and try to avoid being suckered by it.

 

The banks and governments encourage and survive on an explosion of consumerism, you need the next phone, TV, house etc etc. and of course you cant just buy one that does what you want, it has to have the right brand stuck on the side of it... that brand doubles or triples the cost.

 

Buy your stuff from Ali Express. Dont upgrade your phone just because you can, and dont buy a brand when you can buy the a product that can do the same job for half the price. The difference in the picture on your Samsung TV is barely noticeable and not worth the double price youve paid compared to the "Alba" next door and anyway youll probably chuck it in 4 years when they add a "new" purple bezel to the range.

 

Our society is set up to exploit brand whores and the easily led... so those of us not bothered by them can actually do OK

 

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/30087996/gucci-ysl-others-suing-alibaba-back-down-on-mediation-threat/

Although I agree with a lot of that, i don't know why you're blaming the govts/banks. Millions of jobs depend on consumerism in shops and manufacturing. Govt and banks employ millions too.

I ordered some stuff of aliexpress yesterday and don't have a problem with it but I'm surprised someone from your political standpoint would want to assist a dictatorship like China.

[cityfanlee23]

Sadly there isnt really a viable alternative, the best option for me was to recognise the bullshit and try to avoid being suckered by it.

 

The banks and governments encourage and survive on an explosion of consumerism, you need the next phone, TV, house etc etc. and of course you cant just buy one that does what you want, it has to have the right brand stuck on the side of it... that brand doubles or triples the cost.

 

Buy your stuff from Ali Express. Dont upgrade your phone just because you can, and dont buy a brand when you can buy the a product that can do the same job for half the price. The difference in the picture on your Samsung TV is barely noticeable and not worth the double price youve paid compared to the "Alba" next door and anyway youll probably chuck it in 4 years when they add a "new" purple bezel to the range.

 

Our society is set up to exploit brand whores and the easily led... so those of us not bothered by them can actually do OK

 

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/30087996/gucci-ysl-others-suing-alibaba-back-down-on-mediation-threat/

 

 

Essentially yes, it's set up to use the people as sheep to keep the economy going, we have to be good people and work hard and spend all our money, if we save it, the economy goes into decline because the money supply shrinks, so they conveniently push housing prices through the roof in market bubbles, thus making it virtually impossible for young people to save enough to buy things new, meaning they need loans to pay for it. More funny money, viscous cycle in which the only real benefit, is better technology and higher living standards, Great, better living standards, shame we have to work longer and harder to get any sort of benefits? And people don't even notice.

 

If we take control back of who can create money, who takes the risk on it (It should be banks and not Government/People) and who profits from it the most (It should be society, not the private banks that print it and invest poorly)

We can sort the issues out!

 

Theres no coincidence that Boom and Bust became a real issue when the Bank of England was first created and we lost control of it.