Gary Neville Sacked By Valencia

[AKCJ]

1) And most are also realistic enough to know that being a good player and pushing a few buttons on TV doesnt automatically qualify them to manage one of the biggest teams in the world, unless they are deluded, arrogant beyond belief or recklessly confident.

 

2) He wouldnt have even been offered the job had Phil not been a coach and the owner knew him.

 

3) Its like giving the Valencia job to Jamie Redknapp. How laughable would that be? what exactly qualifies Neville to be a football manager? nothing.

 

4) EDIT: And coaching England has little or nothing to do with this either.

 

1) You call it arrogance, I call it ambition. It's the fine line you see in every line of work between winners and losers. You can't say that you can't do something until you've tried it.

 

2) What does that have to do with it? He was offered the job and he took it. You're not wrong in saying that if Phil Neville or Peter Lim were not there then he wouldn't have got the job. But they are there. Lim has stated many times that he chose Gary because of his ability as a coach.

 

3) Jamie Redknapp getting the role would be extraordinary, purely because he's not qualified to get the job. Gary Neville is, however much you like to keep dismissing it.... Gary Neville is a fully qualified coach.

 

4) So yeah, his coaching badges and experience obviously count for nothing    Even for you that's a good one.

[Donut]

1) You call it arrogance, I call it ambition. It's the fine line you see in every line of work between winners and losers. You can't say that you can't do something until you've tried it.

 

2) What does that have to do with it? He was offered the job and he took it. You're not wrong in saying that if Phil Neville or Peter Lim were not there then he wouldn't have got the job. But they are there. Lim has stated many times that he chose Gary because of his ability as a coach.

 

3) Jamie Redknapp getting the role would be extraordinary, purely because he's not qualified to get the job. Gary Neville is, however much you like to keep dismissing it.... Gary Neville is a fully qualified coach.

 

4) So yeah, his coaching badges and experience obviously count for nothing    Even for you that's a good one.

 

Alright. So Danny Mills has done his coaching badges, he played in the champions league, he played for England, some big clubs at the time like Leeds and does punditry on the radio. So he is equally able to do the Valencia job then?

 

No, it would be ridiculous.

 

And you bang on about Gary Neville's experience......EXPERIENCE OF WHAT???

 

Loads of people have got badges, lots of people have played for big teams, lots of people have twiddled nobs on a marginal offside decision, who cares. He hasnt managed one player in his life, let alone players in a massive club on foreign soil.

 

I dont even know how there can be an argument. Managerial nobody gets job and is expected to fail. Fails.

 

Its there in black and white, its really not a surprise is it.

[Dan]

You answered it in your post.

 

They're the 3rd biggest club in the best league in world football. There is no way that any sane person turns down that role. 

 

But he doesn't need to take it. It's not like he's an unknown in the sporting world. Look at Hasselbaink for example who could still yet go on to manage a big club simply because of who he is.

 

He's done his long term chances more harm than good. Imagine if after all the talk of him being a manager the pinnacle of his managerial career is keeping Valencia up. Jesus Christ.

[Dan]

Not everyone has this weird defeatist attitude.

 

Most people (especially sportsmen) are ambitious in life and actually think they can achieve things.

 

If he's that ambitious and that confident he could work his way up instead of jumping to a job he knows he really isn't qualified to be in. It's a complete farce of a situation. He will not come out of this with a higher reputation than he went in with.

 

If I was offered one of the top jobs at my workplace on £150k a year (for arguments sake) I'd not take it because I know full-well I'd be out of my depth.

 

The fans over there are ruthless with things like this.

[RowlattsFox]

Ex Players go into big jobs all the time, some fail some don't! I remember some people saying cambiasso should become our manager during the summer?

[Donut]

But he doesn't need to take it. It's not like he's an unknown in the sporting world. Look at Hasselbaink for example who could still yet go on to manage a big club simply because of who he is.

 

He's done his long term chances more harm than good. Imagine if after all the talk of him being a manager the pinnacle of his managerial career is keeping Valencia up. Jesus Christ.

 

Plus, if hed have done a Hasselbaink, or a Karanka as i eluded to in an older post, he would have commanded a lot of respect.

 

If Karanka takes Middlesboro up for example, he has rightfully commanded a few bigger clubs taking a look at him, and has earned not only a lot of valuable experience but respect along the way.

 

He carries that respect with him into the dressing room when he goes to work with new players. He has some new ideas and a new direction, thats backed up with some good experience.

 

Gary Neville will go into his next job already under pressure to rebuild what happened at Valencia and then convince a bigger team he deserves a chance to manage them, with a CV that shows a disasterous experience when managing a bigger team.

 

Its not ideal

[Dan]

Ex Players go into big jobs all the time, some fail some don't! I remember some people saying cambiasso should become our manager during the summer?

 

Better case for that than this as he actually knew the club by the end.

 

It would be akin to Arsenal replacing Wenger with Lilian Thuram because he's mates with Kroenke. It's ridiculous.

[AKCJ]

If he's that ambitious and that confident he could work his way up instead of jumping to a job he knows he really isn't qualified to be in. It's a complete farce of a situation. He will not come out of this with a higher reputation than he went in with.

 

If I was offered one of the top jobs at my workplace on £150k a year (for arguments sake) I'd not take it because I know full-well I'd be out of my depth.

 

The fans over there are ruthless with things like this.

 

Dan don't be so ridiculous.

[Donut]

It would kind of make sense if he was a big part of Valencia as a player, and knew intimately some of the people in the background, some of the players on a more personal level, he knew the philosophy of the club from the inside and what makes it tick, he knew exactly what the ethos of Valencia was.

 

It would still be a HUGE ask, but in the short term, he could have steadied the ship in that sense. A few managers have done well out of this situation, Eddie Howe and Gary Monk would be two that come to mind.

 

But he doesnt have that background either unfortunately.

[Dan]

Dan don't be so ridiculous.

 

Not ridiculous in the slightest if I knew I'd be out of it in about a month if I was lucky.

 

Don't think of this as lack of ambition. There may be a time for it. It certainly isn't now though.

[AKCJ]

Why do you think that JFH and Karanka have had to go to places like Middlesbrough and Burton?

 

Oh yeah, it's because they've not had offers from any decent club.

 

You are absolutely off your rocker if you think that someone like Karanka says "No, sorry Valencia. I'm going to take the Middlesbrough job instead".

[Dan]

Why do you think that JFH and Karanka have had to go to places like Middlesbrough and Burton?

 

Oh yeah, it's because they've not had offers from any decent club.

 

You are absolutely off your rocker if you think that someone like Karanka says "No, sorry Valencia. I'm going to take the Middlesbrough job instead".

 

Valencia quite clearly a rare case as they're a massive club who happen to be owned by a prat.

[AKCJ]

Not ridiculous in the slightest if I knew I'd be out of it in about a month if I was lucky.

 

So what happens next? You're back to square one. Big deal?

 

If Gary Neville fails then he either has to go back into punditry (he'll walk back into the Sky job) or do a JFH or Karanka and work his way up, but there is no way he says no to the job. Absolutely no way.

[Donut]

Dan don't be so ridiculous.

 

That isnt ridiculous.

 

I get offered the 150k a year job somehow.

 

I take it, i start to make the company less efficient, i cost them money, i cost them sales, i lose them contracts, the shareholder returns go down.......

 

I get removed with my tail between my legs and have an enormous blot on my resume of how badly i screwed up.

 

I work myself up so hard again to reach a point where i have to convince people i can do a job that ive already messed the hell up with.

[RowlattsFox]

It was/is only a temporary appointment anyway. It's not like they've given him a 3 year contract, have they?

Was probably a bit early in the season for a temp appointment though. Might aswell have just given it to Phil, at least he's been there a little while.

[Donut]

So what happens next? You're back to square one. Big deal?

 

If Gary Neville fails then he either has to go back into punditry (he'll walk back into the Sky job) or do a JFH or Karanka and work his way up, but there is no way he says no to the job. Absolutely no way.

 

Youre back to lower than square one, thats the point!!

[AKCJ]

That isnt ridiculous.

 

I get offered the 150k a year job somehow.

 

I take it, i start to make the company less efficient, i cost them money, i cost them sales, i lose them contracts, the shareholder returns go down.......

 

I get removed with my tail between my legs and have an enormous blot on my resume of how badly i screwed up.

 

I work myself up so hard again to reach a point where i have to convince people i can do a job that ive already messed the hell up with.

 

But this isn't normal life. This if football management.

 

Gary Neville has a tremendous reputation in this country and everyone (bar a few) will see that the Valencia job was a massive ask. He will not be short of offers when he comes back to England and you're only kidding yourself if you think that.

[Dan]

So what happens next? You're back to square one. Big deal?

 

If Gary Neville fails then he either has to go back into punditry (he'll walk back into the Sky job) or do a JFH or Karanka and work his way up, but there is no way he says no to the job. Absolutely no way.

 

Isn't that simple though is it really?

 

Who's to say "square one" hasn't been filled by someone else? Then what? I'm out the door, no job, off the back of a failed experiment that I deep down knew I was out of my depth for.

 

Throw into the equation that I got the job because I knew the top boss, not to do with my ability.

 

No-one honestly believes Peter Lim has picked Neville because he's the best manager Valencia can attract, surely?

 

To be honest it was a bad comparison from me as £150k a year is more to me than anything Valencia could pay Neville. He's done his reputation harm and cannot hide it going forward whereas I probably could.

 

It's a similar kind of concept though.

[AKCJ]

Youre back to lower than square one, thats the point!!

 

No, you're not though...

 

He didn't have a management position before this and If (when) he loses it then he'll be back to not having a management position.

 

It's not like he's failing at Notts County. He's failing at one of the worlds biggest clubs. Nobody will think "He's failed at Valencia so there is no way i'm going to take him on as chairman of Rotherham".

 

He will not be short of offers when he returns to England. He will still get opportunities as good as the likes of JFH and Karanka.

[Donut]

But this isn't normal life. This if football management.

 

Gary Neville has a tremendous reputation in this country and everyone (bar a few) will see that the Valencia job was a massive ask. He will not be short of offers when he comes back to England and you're only kidding yourself if you think that.

 

He doesnt have a tremendous reputation as a manager......i dont know where you get this idea from. He doesnt have a reputation as a manager, he has to build one.

 

If he was seriously trying to make a career in management, which i actually dont think he is to be honest, we would see him being linked with any of the numerous vacant jobs in the English leagues before Valencia came up.

 

I havent seen his name linked, touted, discussed anywhere.

 

This is the place where you start and you earn your stripes.

[AKCJ]

Isn't that simple though is it really?

 

Who's to say "square one" hasn't been filled by someone else? Then what? I'm out the door, no job, off the back of a failed experiment that I deep down knew I was out of my depth for.

 

Throw into the equation that I got the job because I knew the top boss, not to do with my ability.

 

No-one honestly believes Peter Lim has picked Neville because he's the best manager Valencia can attract, surely?

 

To be honest it was a bad comparison from me as £150k a year is more to me than anything Valencia could pay Neville. He's done his reputation harm and cannot hide it going forward whereas I probably could.

 

It's a similar kind of concept though.

 

But the scenario you're explaining is totally different.

 

Gary Neville did not have a management job. It's more like leaving one job where they would always take you back because of your ability for another, completely different job with massive prospects.

 

I'm sorry Dan, but no person with a shred of ambition turns down the Valencia job. If it was a small club I could see your point. But they are one of the biggest clubs in the world.

[AKCJ]

He doesnt have a tremendous reputation as a manager......i dont know where you get this idea from. He doesnt have a reputation as a manager, he has to build one.

 

If he was seriously trying to make a career in management, which i actually dont think he is to be honest, we would see him being linked with any of the numerous vacant jobs in the English leagues before Valencia came up.

 

I havent seen his name linked, touted, discussed anywhere.

 

This is the place where you start and you earn your stripes.

 

Where have I said that he has a tremendous reputation as a manager? This is a figment of your imagination. He does, however have a brilliant reputation in this country of being a man that knows his football and one that is clearly a talented coach.

[Donut]

But the scenario you're explaining is totally different.

 

Gary Neville did not have a management job. It's more like leaving one job where they would always take you back because of your ability for another, completely different job with massive prospects.

 

I'm sorry Dan, but no person with a shred of ambition turns down the Valencia job. If it was a small club I could see your point. But they are one of the biggest clubs in the world.

 

So youre effectively saying then he would admit he wasnt cut out for management and say screw it, ill just go back to the sky studio instead?

 

This is the exact thing you said was the reason he HAD to take the Valencia job. To show he could actually manage a football team.

 

This guy needs to build a reputation, its as simple as that. You dont just click your fingers and there it is, im a top class manager, and it doesnt come from coaching England players for 2 days every three months or pushing buttons on a screen either.

[AKCJ]

So youre effectively saying then he would admit he wasnt cut out for management and say screw it, ill just go back to the sky studio instead?

 

This is the exact thing you said was the reason he HAD to take the Valencia job.

 

This guy needs to build a reputation, its as simple as that. You dont just click your fingers and there it is, im a top class manager, and it doesnt come from coaching England players for 2 days every three months or pushing buttons on a screen either.

 

What are you on? Honestly...

 

if he gets sacked then he has the security of the job he originally had. He will then wait for clubs to sack their managers and apply for the post. That is why he could not turn down the Valencia job.

 

You're mental if you think he should have turned down the Valencia job and waited for offers like Port Vale or MK Dons. Nobody said he'd turn into a top class manager by getting the Valencia job. It's another figment of your imagination.

[Donut]

Where have I said that he has a tremendous reputation as a manager? This is a figment of your imagination. He does, however have a brilliant reputation in this country of being a man that knows his football and one that is clearly a talented coach.

 

And this hasnt, and wont mean anything until he starts to build a managerial career properly. Its as simple as that.

 

His punditry means zero. Absolutely zero.

 

Why is he sitting in a sky studio and not coaching somewhere like Phil Neville? or Kevin Phillips? If hes a talented coach, get involved, get out there and get working with a club.

 

And not Valencia, a club where you are building for the long term for your skill set and reputation.