Houses

[grobyfox1990]

58 minutes ago, danny. said:

Good stuff, look forwards to everything being affordable again and there being plenty of rental properties available at cheaper prices for the people who need to/want to rent. No idea what happy clappers means, people are happy Zach has fixed everything and are clapping the move? Good to know it's all in hand. 

Didn't say that, I'm saying the happy clappers that are crying about potential lower returns must've missed the last 10-15 years of boom time and the chance to put resilient structures in place instead of spaffing excess on hot tubs, financed BMWs and a holiday home in Spain. Like you said Blackrock are coming into the market. They are the opposite of dumb money happy clappers so there must be alpha in UK property 

[CornwallFox]

3 hours ago, danny. said:

Yes, because costs have gone up, mortgage interest rates, far higher maintenance costs (esp. post-COVID), and higher taxes plus legislation that makes it more expensive to rent out. And of course supply/demand adds to it too.

I'm sure they will all come back down once Zach has put the private landlords in jail though. Just have to be patient. And Blackrock definitely won't want to make as much money as they possibly can.

The point was simply that costs are already high with landlords. There's more landlords now and costs are exponentially higher. Partly because huge numbers of landlords buying properties at the bottom end of the market have caused massive demand and price inflation over the years. They are passing on high costs because they caused high costs.

And it's not difficult to stop corporate landlordism if we wanted to.

[danny.]

1 hour ago, CornwallFox said:

The point was simply that costs are already high with landlords. There's more landlords now and costs are exponentially higher. Partly because huge numbers of landlords buying properties at the bottom end of the market have caused massive demand and price inflation over the years. They are passing on high costs because they caused high costs.

And it's not difficult to stop corporate landlordism if we wanted to.

Huge numbers of more landlords buying more properties to rent has caused massive demand. OK...

[JonnyBoy]

16 hours ago, CornwallFox said:

The point was simply that costs are already high with landlords. There's more landlords now and costs are exponentially higher. Partly because huge numbers of landlords buying properties at the bottom end of the market have caused massive demand and price inflation over the years. They are passing on high costs because they caused high costs.

And it's not difficult to stop corporate landlordism if we wanted to.

 

I'm sorry but this is a load of bollocks, rightmove search just there are over 1000 1/2 bed's in leicester, not even including Leicestershire.

 

Mortgage rates, cost of landlord insurance, costs of if (when) a tennant wrecks the property - happened to us over £3,000 of damage, money for when the boiler goes, oven, new carpets, obviously get tax'd on all revenue not just profit. 

 

FWIW the estate agent we use said we can put the price up, but we haven't. And yes, it is still expensive for a 1 bed house but people who aren't landlords don't see the costs. It is naive to throw around that it's "because landlords are buying properties at the bottom" we cant get wait to get rid of ours our current the mortgage term is up, we make no money whatsoever only through the property going up, which only matches inflation anyway. 

Edited 28 April by JonnyBoy

[CornwallFox]

1 hour ago, JonnyBoy said:

 

I'm sorry but this is a load of bollocks, rightmove search just there are over 1000 1/2 bed's in leicester, not even including Leicestershire.

 

Mortgage rates, cost of landlord insurance, costs of if (when) a tennant wrecks the property - happened to us over £3,000 of damage, money for when the boiler goes, oven, new carpets, obviously get tax'd on all revenue not just profit. 

 

FWIW the estate agent we use said we can put the price up, but we haven't. And yes, it is still expensive for a 1 bed house but people who aren't landlords don't see the costs. It is naive to throw around that it's "because landlords are buying properties at the bottom" we cant get wait to get rid of ours our current the mortgage term is up, we make no money whatsoever only through the property going up, which only matches inflation anyway. 

I am a landlord. I just have fallen into it and intend to sell the property at some point, not related to changes to rules. 

Landlordism is a scurge on society. 

 

The fact there's loads of properties now, with landlords moaning and exciting the market, is hardly the point.

 

A friend of mine in Leicester sold a 2 bed terraced property a few years ago and actively wanted to sell to a first time buyer. The estate agents told him it was unlikely as cash buyer landlords would come in, and that's exactly what happened. Immediately came in and bought it.

 

If you think demand caused by nearly 3m landlords hasnt affected house prices then, sorry, you're being dishonest. 

 

There is zero risk to landlords. Somebody else is paying the mortgage and buying the house. Yes there can be unexpected costs on the short term but it's guaranteed to lead to a huge profit overall given you'll have a house paid for at the end of it unless you're the worst businessman of all time. 

[dsr-burnley]

13 minutes ago, CornwallFox said:

I am a landlord. I just have fallen into it and intend to sell the property at some point, not related to changes to rules. 

Landlordism is a scurge on society. 

 

The fact there's loads of properties now, with landlords moaning and exciting the market, is hardly the point.

 

A friend of mine in Leicester sold a 2 bed terraced property a few years ago and actively wanted to sell to a first time buyer. The estate agents told him it was unlikely as cash buyer landlords would come in, and that's exactly what happened. Immediately came in and bought it.

 

If you think demand caused by nearly 3m landlords hasnt affected house prices then, sorry, you're being dishonest. 

 

There is zero risk to landlords. Somebody else is paying the mortgage and buying the house. Yes there can be unexpected costs on the short term but it's guaranteed to lead to a huge profit overall given you'll have a house paid for at the end of it unless you're the worst businessman of all time. 

If you're a scourge on society, then perhaps you need to throw your tenants onto the street now, not wait until a convenient moment?

[kenny]

17 minutes ago, CornwallFox said:

I am a landlord. I just have fallen into it and intend to sell the property at some point, not related to changes to rules. 

Landlordism is a scurge on society. 

 

The fact there's loads of properties now, with landlords moaning and exciting the market, is hardly the point.

 

A friend of mine in Leicester sold a 2 bed terraced property a few years ago and actively wanted to sell to a first time buyer. The estate agents told him it was unlikely as cash buyer landlords would come in, and that's exactly what happened. Immediately came in and bought it.

 

If you think demand caused by nearly 3m landlords hasnt affected house prices then, sorry, you're being dishonest. 

 

There is zero risk to landlords. Somebody else is paying the mortgage and buying the house. Yes there can be unexpected costs on the short term but it's guaranteed to lead to a huge profit overall given you'll have a house paid for at the end of it unless you're the worst businessman of all time. 

How to say I don't understand the finances behind being a landlord that didn't involve an inheritance without saying it.

 

You wilfully ignore all posts that explain which landlords that have mortgages don't make money from their property anymore.

 

Hats off to people such as yourself that are able to do it without a mortgage though, it perhaps is worth doing in that case.

[slymunn]

5 minutes ago, kenny said:

How to say I don't understand the finances behind being a landlord that didn't involve an inheritance without saying it.

 

You wilfully ignore all posts that explain which landlords that have mortgages don't make money from their property anymore.

 

Hats off to people such as yourself that are able to do it without a mortgage though, it perhaps is worth doing in that case.

I'm not a landlord so don't understand it all..But if someone else is paying that mortgage as rent, then surely they are making the cost of the mortgage are they are recouping that money? Which in time leaves them with a house that's paid off by someone else?

[kenny]

9 minutes ago, slymunn said:

I'm not a landlord so don't understand it all..But if someone else is paying that mortgage as rent, then surely they are making the cost of the mortgage are they are recouping that money? Which in time leaves them with a house that's paid off by someone else?

Only if the rent covers a repayment mortgage. Many cover the interest only.

 

Plus you pay tax on the income not the profit. So a higher rate taxpayer pays 40% of the rent in tax with the interest on the mortgage often occupying 70% or so of the rest.

 

This is why many rentals lose money for the landlord now that the interest rates have increased. 

 

For those landlords that do not need a mortgage then its different of course.

[grobyfox1990]

21 minutes ago, kenny said:

How to say I don't understand the finances behind being a landlord that didn't involve an inheritance without saying it.

 

You wilfully ignore all posts that explain which landlords that have mortgages don't make money from their property anymore.

 

Hats off to people such as yourself that are able to do it without a mortgage though, it perhaps is worth doing in that case.

Again this is painfully untrue, I kind of see why those crazed maniacs that got triggered by all of @Paninistickers covid posts feel now LOL. Although he was/is hilarious.

Landlords that are levered don't make money from BTLs?!?! We have had a generation of near zero interest rates and in that time and landlords could have structured appropriately to prepare for normalisation of rates. Rates are not 'high' now they are normal. If during the period when we got given free money landlords weren't hedged, effectively insured or wasted their excess on financed BMWs, that is squarely down to their incompetence. 

[kenny]

2 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Again this is painfully untrue, I kind of see why those crazed maniacs that got triggered by all of @Paninistickers covid posts feel now LOL. Although he was/is hilarious.

Landlords that are levered don't make money from BTLs?!?! We have had a generation of near zero interest rates and in that time and landlords could have structured appropriately to prepare for normalisation of rates. Rates are not 'high' now they are normal. If during the period when we got given free money landlords weren't hedged, effectively insured or wasted their excess on financed BMWs, that is squarely down to their incompetence. 

No BMWs for me, but fair play on recognising my incompetance.

 

 

[CornwallFox]

35 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

If you're a scourge on society, then perhaps you need to throw your tenants onto the street now, not wait until a convenient moment?

When the house comes to get sold the tenants will be well sighted on it and given a very long period to find alternative arrangements because I have a conscience, something apparently lacking from other landlords who only seem to complain about their personal finances, yet never reflect on the morality of turning housing into an investment opportunity rather than it being first and foremost about people owning their own homes. 

I have very little time for the majority of landlords who expected ready returns with very little risk and scream and shout as soon as that situation turns.

Edited 28 April by CornwallFox

[CornwallFox]

25 minutes ago, slymunn said:

I'm not a landlord so don't understand it all..But if someone else is paying that mortgage as rent, then surely they are making the cost of the mortgage are they are recouping that money? Which in time leaves them with a house that's paid off by someone else?

Absolutely this is the case. Danny as usual doesn't see anything that doesn't fit his motivation for posting. 

[dsr-burnley]

28 minutes ago, CornwallFox said:

When the house comes to get sold the tenants will be well sighted on it and given a very long period to find alternative arrangements because I have a conscience, something apparently lacking from other landlords who only seem to complain about their personal finances, yet never reflect on the morality of turning housing into an investment opportunity rather than it being first and foremost about people owning their own homes. 

I have very little time for the majority of landlords who expected ready returns with very little risk and scream and shout as soon as that situation turns.

It's nice to know that you are so much a better person than the rest of the landlords.

 

Surely if landlords with a conscience are desired, then the government should be encouraging individual landlords and not, as they are actually doing, encouraging overseas corporations to take over the market?

[JonnyBoy]

55 minutes ago, kenny said:

Only if the rent covers a repayment mortgage. Many cover the interest only.

 

Plus you pay tax on the income not the profit. So a higher rate taxpayer pays 40% of the rent in tax with the interest on the mortgage often occupying 70% or so of the rest.

 

This is why many rentals lose money for the landlord now that the interest rates have increased. 

 

For those landlords that do not need a mortgage then its different of course.

ours is interest only now, £450 ish on a one bed house. Dread to think how much we would have to charge if we were paying into the mortgage, the revenue wouldn't cover it and people forget a lot are then tax'd 40% on all income 

[CornwallFox]

1 hour ago, dsr-burnley said:

It's nice to know that you are so much a better person than the rest of the landlords.

 

Surely if landlords with a conscience are desired, then the government should be encouraging individual landlords and not, as they are actually doing, encouraging overseas corporations to take over the market?

They should be moving to block that next. 

Before landlords hugely inflated the market, we didn't need nearly 3m landlords. Why do we need them now? Only because landlord demand has helped to make housing unaffordable for many.

 

Get rid of landlordism - not all landlords immediately but regulate % of housing stock to be rented and bring that number down over time as landlords leave the market and demand decreases. 

Edited 28 April by CornwallFox

[grobyfox1990]

2 hours ago, kenny said:

No BMWs for me, but fair play on recognising my incompetance.

 

 

Goes without saying nothing personal in any posts. You were speaking generally and so am I. Certainly have no will or intention to cast aspersions on your personal circumstances on social media 

[grobyfox1990]

1 hour ago, dsr-burnley said:

It's nice to know that you are so much a better person than the rest of the landlords.

 

Surely if landlords with a conscience are desired, then the government should be encouraging individual landlords and not, as they are actually doing, encouraging overseas corporations to take over the market?

How are Gov doing this?

[kenny]

7 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Goes without saying nothing personal in any posts. You were speaking generally and so am I. Certainly have no will or intention to cast aspersions on your personal circumstances on social media 

I should have been more aggressive with rent to say the least. I also should have sold up when the tide against landlords turned under the Tories. 

 

I just really like the house as myself and my wife saved for years to buy it then renovated from a real unloved state.

 

Business head on, we should have sold one we realised that renting in Leicestershire is a bit of a busted flush. We should have ignored the Estate Agent about rental rates and had more rent increases.

 

We probably aren't cut out to be landlords hence we are exiting the market. 

[dsr-burnley]

37 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

How are Gov doing this?

Tax breaks. Individual landlords pay a 2% surcharge on profits, the their mortgage interest expenses are only partly allowable, and they have to pay inheritance tax. Overseas corporates don't have any of those impositions.

[grobyfox1990]

46 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

Tax breaks. Individual landlords pay a 2% surcharge on profits, the their mortgage interest expenses are only partly allowable, and they have to pay inheritance tax. Overseas corporates don't have any of those impositions.

Ok fair enough but that just pushes the case to incorporate/effectively structure your assets. I honestly think happy clappers inherit a house and think the money will just roll in with minimal effort because that's what Instagram tells them, then start crying when some nous, experience and effort is required.

[dsr-burnley]

47 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Ok fair enough but that just pushes the case to incorporate/effectively structure your assets. I honestly think happy clappers inherit a house and think the money will just roll in with minimal effort because that's what Instagram tells them, then start crying when some nous, experience and effort is required.

Is that what you think because you have known landlords and understand how they work, or is that what you think because of prejudice? 

 

An individual can't avoid inheritance tax by incorporating, and if they already have the property there will be a CGT cost on incorporation that might scupper the whole idea. Those extra taxes don't "just push the case to incorporate", they give large advantages to big overseas companies.

[Tommy G]

4 hours ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Again this is painfully untrue, I kind of see why those crazed maniacs that got triggered by all of @Paninistickers covid posts feel now LOL. Although he was/is hilarious.

Landlords that are levered don't make money from BTLs?!?! We have had a generation of near zero interest rates and in that time and landlords could have structured appropriately to prepare for normalisation of rates. Rates are not 'high' now they are normal. If during the period when we got given free money landlords weren't hedged, effectively insured or wasted their excess on financed BMWs, that is squarely down to their incompetence. 

Without trying to wind you up any further, only an idiot would plough money into a depreciating asset like a car, so leasing it is the best option all round 

[FoxesDeb]

3 hours ago, Tommy G said:

Without trying to wind you up any further, only an idiot would plough money into a depreciating asset like a car, so leasing it is the best option all round 

Is this true? I thought it was better from a financial point of view to buy outright, rather than leasing?

[grobyfox1990]

3 hours ago, dsr-burnley said:

Is that what you think because you have known landlords and understand how they work, or is that what you think because of prejudice? 

 

An individual can't avoid inheritance tax by incorporating, and if they already have the property there will be a CGT cost on incorporation that might scupper the whole idea. Those extra taxes don't "just push the case to incorporate", they give large advantages to big overseas companies.

Yes I understand how they work and am able to structure assets/funds. You absolutely can avoid CGT and IHT, that's the whole point of offshore, which you can still do whilst being UK res. As stated repeatedly on this thread, being a landlord isn't for happy clappers, so I have no sympathy for when they start crying about vanilla regulatory changes.