England's biggest clubs; the definitive list

[4everfox]

7 minutes ago, ceredigion said:

It's interesting, but I find the methodology a bit too arbitrary for my liking in terms of the points awarded for various achievements. I'd have thought that winning the League Cup for instance should garner a club more credit that winning the old Division Four title, but in this method it's the same.

 

Also, clubs like Preston, Blackburn, Sunderland and even Aston Villa had their great periods of success in the early years of football, when the league was much smaller than it became after WWI and contained teams like Darwen, Ardwick, Burton Swifts and Bootle before the clubs of the big cities had started.

 

Huddersfield Town should have a great shout though. The Football League expanded to 4 divisions from the 1919/20 season onwards and all the big clubs existed by then. Between 1920 and 1930 they won the First Division 3 years running in 1924, 1925 and 1926, were Runners-Up in 1927 and 1928 and finished 3rd in 1923. They also won the FA Cup in 1922 and were finalists in 1920 and 1928. But there was no League Cup or European football during their heyday.

 Winning the league cup DOES gain you more points then winning the old division four though, it's three for the league cup and one for division four. 

[murphy]

Interesting thread.

 

City's 50 yrs in the top flight, 82 in the Championship and 1 in league 1 got me thinking, where would we stand in an all time league table?  I found this (below) but I think it is just points gained in the top flight and we are 25th.  Sounds about right.  In other words our average or natural position is 3rd in the Championship.

 

1		Liverpool FC	4046	1877	1009	1160	6672:4933	1739	6640
2		Arsenal FC	4045	1838	1043	1164	6695:5072	1623	6557
3		Everton FC	4430	1804	1114	1512	6909:6134	775	6526
4		Manchester United	3689	1761	907	1021	6363:4714	1649	6190
5		Aston Villa	4070	1643	968	1459	6608:6077	531	5897
6		Manchester City	3531	1381	862	1288	5461:5157	304	5005
7		Tottenham Hotspur	3306	1353	810	1143	5182:4664	518	4869
8		Chelsea FC	3310	1334	860	1116	5054:4665	389	4862
9		Newcastle United	3388	1313	823	1252	5123:4914	209	4762
10		Sunderland AFC	3328	1259	778	1291	5138:5100	38	4555
11		West Bromwich Albion	3058	1093	750	1215	4571:4845	-274	4029
12		Blackburn Rovers	2720	1017	651	1052	4306:4348	-42	3702
13		Bolton Wanderers	2802	1017	641	1144	4156:4467	-311	3692
14		Sheffield Wednesday	2582	980	612	990	3976:4020	-44	3552
15		Wolverhampton Wanderers	2422	943	546	933	4030:3952	78	3375
16		Derby County	2468	906	585	977	3764:3910	-146	3303
17		Sheffield United	2356	871	560	925	3531:3762	-231	3173
18		Leeds United	2060	846	523	691	3079:2784	295	3061
19		Middlesbrough FC	2426	817	611	998	3418:3741	-323	3059
20		West Ham United	2384	811	594	979	3379:3740	-361	3027
21		Nottingham Forest	2178	800	549	829	3069:3171	-102	2949
22		Burnley FC	2084	808	469	807	3261:3329	-68	2893
23		Stoke City	2322	768	568	986	3009:3575	-566	2872
24		Birmingham City	2306	724	583	999	3049:3656	-607	2755
25		Leicester City	2002	643	526	833	2937:3382	-445	2455
26		Preston North End	1720	671	390	659	2701:2569	132	2403
27		Southampton FC	1593	532	437	624	2112:2291	-179	2033
28		Portsmouth FC	1356	484	322	550	2021:2208	-187	1765
29		Huddersfield Town	1260	480	317	463	1874:1854	20	1757
30		Coventry City	1390	430	396	564	1604:1954	-350	1686
31		Blackpool FC	1172	415	282	475	1788:1941	-153	1527
32		Ipswich Town	1084	402	265	417	1442:1500	-58	1471
33		Charlton Athletic	1050	355	253	442	1424:1651	-227	1318
34		Notts County	1068	341	253	474	1403:1712	-309	1276
35		Norwich City	1016	303	304	409	1172:1507	-335	1213
36		Fulham FC	998	298	258	442	1294:1625	-331	1152
37		Queens Park Rangers	936	299	249	388	1143:1310	-167	1146
38		Bury FC	804	279	180	345	1176:1340	-164	1017
39		Cardiff City	668	231	163	274	897:1067	-170	856
40		Luton Town	658	213	168	277	863:1011	-148	807
41		Milton Keynes Dons	554	186	171	197	702:754	-52	729
42		Crystal Palace	670	180	184	306	698:988	-290	724
43		Oldham Athletic	484	159	129	196	604:713	-109	606
44		Grimsby Town	488	167	97	224	756:940	-184	598
45		Bradford City	468	152	126	190	584:671	-87	582
46		Watford FC	390	124	93	173	520:601	-81	465
47		Bristol City	358	114	94	150	428:510	-82	436
48		Swansea City	300	100	72	128	374:434	-60	372
49		Wigan Athletic	304	85	76	143	316:482	-166	331
50		Brentford FC	210	76	46	88	330:359	-29	274
51		Brighton & Hove Albion	168	47	48	73	182:244	-62	189
52		Hull City	178	37	47	94	167:293	-126	158
53		Bradford Park Avenue	122	40	27	55	172:204	-32	147
54		Accrington Stanley (old)	122	35	33	54	226:313	-87	138
55		Reading FC	114	32	23	59	136:186	-50	119
56		Oxford United	124	27	38	59	150:229	-79	119
57		Millwall FC	76	19	22	35	86:117	-31	79
58		AFC Bournemouth	64	18	14	32	81:118	-37	68
59		Northampton Town	42	10	13	19	55:92	-37	43
60		Carlisle United	42	12	5	25	43:59	-16	41
61		Darwen	56	11	8	37	75:195	-120	41
62		Barnsley FC	38	10	5	23	37:82	-45	35
63		Swindon Town	42	5	15	22	47:100	-53	30
64		Leyton Orient	42	6	9	27	37:81	-44	27
65		Glossop North End	34	4	10	20	31:74	-43	22

[ceredigion]

26 minutes ago, 4everfox said:

 Winning the league cup DOES gain you more points then winning the old division four though, it's three for the league cup and one for division four. 

Fair enough, I'd misread your criteria. But I would still think that winning the League Cup should be more prestigious, i.e. get you more points, than winning a 2nd Tier title. Also, your logic is slightly flawed given that you award the same points for winning the 3rd Division as you do for winning the 4th. Surely winning a higher division title ought to get you more points.

[Koke]

I know people joke that football began in 1992 but reality is English football escalated to big levels in the 90s and 00s. Clubs grew bigger both financially and image wise and crowds have grown greatly. Forest are objectively bigger than us due to their trophy haul but their fan base is not bigger than ours. Also, the longer they dick about in the lower league the more irrelevant they become to the football world. An entire generation of Forest fans have only known Forest as a 2nd and 3rd tier club. 

 

Huddersfield have won more league titles and FA Cup than Leicester City but they are not and will never be bigger than us. They're a small club.

[Sir Shep]

Going back to my previous post, surely a dusty old trophy cabinet doesn't show how big a club is. I personally put it down to fan base which yes sadly includes plastics. Man U and the pool will always be the top clubs as they attract the most support.

 

I will always class Chelsea as a smaller club than Spurs purely because Spurs have more fans (or did have but I guess Chelsea may have attracted more plastics than I realise)! 

 

Just imagine if Bournemouth got the same investment as Man City, went on to win the next 5 premier league titles, an FA cup and won the champions league. Surely they wouldn't be considered a bigger club than us despite a bigger trophy haul. 

[davieG]

4 minutes ago, Sir Shep said:

Going back to my previous post, surely a dusty old trophy cabinet doesn't show how big a club is. I personally put it down to fan base which yes sadly includes plastics. Man U and the pool will always be the top clubs as they attract the most support.

 

I will always class Chelsea as a smaller club than Spurs purely because Spurs have more fans (or did have but I guess Chelsea may have attracted more plastics than I realise)! 

 

Just imagine if Bournemouth got the same investment as Man City, went on to win the next 5 premier league titles, an FA cup and won the champions league. Surely they wouldn't be considered a bigger club than us despite a bigger trophy haul. 

How do you measure  the fan base?

[Sir Shep]

2 minutes ago, davieG said:

How do you measure  the fan base?

By how many people say they support the club! Which isn't an exact science or easy to measure but I did read somewhere that Leicester had a fan base of about 400,000 people world wide, probably more since our profile went through the roof! It's why I think you can't say Leicester are bigger than say WBA as our fan base is probably very similar. 

[GorlestonFox]

3 minutes ago, Sir Shep said:

By how many people say they support the club! Which isn't an exact science or easy to measure but I did read somewhere that Leicester had a fan base of about 400,000 people world wide, probably more since our profile went through the roof! It's why I think you can't say Leicester are bigger than say WBA as our fan base is probably very similar. 

 

Goto Thailand and ask people if they know WBA

[VIKTOR-LE5]

1 minute ago, GorlestonFox said:

 

Goto Thailand and ask people if they know WBA

Leicester are now known world-wide, WBA?

[Sir Shep]

10 minutes ago, GorlestonFox said:

 

Goto Thailand and ask people if they know WBA

If you're offering to pay 

[NotTheMarketLeader]

I appreciate your efforts, and feel a little guilty for saying so,  but I don't agree with this assessment. 

 

Just to be clear it's not that the information you have used is incorrect, but I suspect an algorithm is required to give more 'true' weighting to the different variables you have used? 

 

 

[Chico1958]

Stats are all well and good

 

But in my heart I know who I think are Englands biggest club.

 

And they will until I leave this mortal coil................. Simples

[simFox]

22 hours ago, murphy said:

No, it is size.  

 

Hence Boro are bigger than us mainly due to average crowds but only 1 league cup compared to our 3 league cups, prem title and charity shield.

 

We'd be ahead of them in a table of success.

You should have read the second part too. 

 

You cannot apply historical attendance figures and determine the club's size as it is today.

[Terraloon]

To measure a fan base is to a degree subjective but worldwide shirt sales is a fair indicator that in turn manifested itself in the size of the deals with kit suppliers . That places Man Utd top then Chelsea. 

If you use the old trophy cabinet as the measure then Corinthians, still in existence, are bigger than most of the clubs in the PL and indeed the Championship.