Ten essential punk albums.

[SpacedX]

Obviously you could do a top 100, but in the interest of brevity and all that. Don't really expect too many takers on this thread, but my knowledge of grime, dubstep and actually most contemporary music is limited to say the least.

 

I was a kid in London having moved back in the summer of '77 - the Jubilee, but already a City fan having seen Larry May's debut at my first game earlier in the year. Even at the age of eleven the vibe the anger and energy of this emergent genre was incredible. and it ****ing blew me away. These are the top ten definitive albums in my opinion, most pre 1980s...and no, ****ing Green Day aren't included.

 

1/ The Stooges: Raw Power. The first punk album - the template - say no more. (See also The New York Dolls released the same year and also the MC5)

 

2/ The Damned: Damned Damned Damned: Regarded as the first UK punk album proper although I've always thought it borrowed heavily from the above which was also recorded in the UK.

 

3/ The Sex Pistols: Never Mind the Bollocks. Gazumped by the Damned, the Pistols had already assured the mantle of public enemy number 1 through the Bill Grundy show the year before and the release of Anarchy in the UK and God Save the Queen. Lydon's vitriolic rancorous snarl over Jonesy's wall of guitars was so objectionable when the nation did - it consequently sold by the truckload subverting the mainstream. Their only studio album proper before they imploded ingloriously a few months later in San Francisco. Forget the subsequent reformations and the Country Life Butter ads. The Brixton Academy shows were brilliant though - pure pantomime punk...

 

 

4/ The Clash: The Clash. England in the late seventies was an ugly place. Their debut album and the politicised lyrics echoing out of bleak concrete cityscapes over a back drop of Jones and Strummer's stuttering disjointed belligerent guitars captured the urban polemic perfectly.

 

5/ The Ramones: The Ramones. Phil Spector on sulphate and CBGBs on the map.

 

6/ Stiff Little Fingers: Inflammable Material. Soundtrack to the troubles according to the rasping testimony of Jake Burns. Brilliant album

 

7/ The Ruts: The Crack. A punk band that could actually play and with lyrical astuteness that eluded the bandwagon jumpers of the time. Married dub to the genre equally as well as The Slits, PiL and the Clash. Dig out Jah War. 

 

8/ Wire: Pink Flag. Too cerebral for punk, which is why although formed in '77 they were known as the progenitors of the post punk movement. Shame they got unashamedly ripped of during the Brit Pop farce. Step forward and hang your head in shame Elastica.

 

 

9/ Television: Marquee Moon. Too artsy and unpalatable for first gen punk tastes. Reviled by the Damned on Idiot Box, and unlike Wire, generally regarded as too up their own arses for their own good. I disagree. Top of the class graduates of CBGBs to the remedial Ramones .

 

10. Richard Hell and the Voidoids: Blank Generation. Founder of the above, (and the Heartbreakers), as eclectic, but rougher around the edges and the antitheses of Television's whimsical jazz inspired musing. 

 

This is too ****ing hard for ten. Mention also, to Bad Brains: Bad Brains, The Dead Boys: Young Loud and Snotty, Chelsea: Chelsea, Rancid: Rancid, Gang of Four: Damaged Goods, Dead Kennedys: Fresh Fruit for Rotting Vegetables, Black Flag: Damaged, The Heartbreakers: LAMF, 999: 999, The Vibrators: Pure Mania, Crass: Christ, The Album, The Slits: Cut, X-Ray Spex: Germfree Adolescents, Public Image Ltd: Public Image Ltd. Discharge: Hear Nothing See Nothing, Say Nothing, The Misfits: Walk Among Us, The Buzzcocks: Singles Going Steady, The Adicts: Songs of Praise. 

 

 

 

 

[RumbleFox]

Great list, some great albums in there.  Being "only" 36 I was not around for any of these unfortunately but my dad was a big fan so was brought up listening to the Ramones, Clash, etc.  I would probably put Joy Division in there but I know they are not everyone's cup of tea and it could be argued they are not quite "punk".  A shout out to Dr Feelgood too, videos of them live are incredible.  I would just say, purely on a side note and I know some punk aficionados would turn their noses up but the first Dexys album is as raw and powerful as any other made I think.  They "mean it" as I like to say.  Pure emotion.

 

Nice list, off to listen to New Rose now.......

 

X

[PAULCFC]

How did Elastica (a fave band of mine...until now!) get away with that Wire ripoff.To be honest that's the first time i've heard that!

[SpacedX]

15 minutes ago, PAULCFC said:

How did Elastica (a fave band of mine...until now!) get away with that Wire ripoff.To be honest that's the first time i've heard that!

They didn't, but I think they eventually settled out of court. They also got in the shit with the Stranglers who deemed the 'Waking Up' hookline to be a tad too close to "No More Heroes". 

[RumbleFox]

7 hours ago, Line-X said:

They didn't, but I think they eventually settled out of court. They also got in the shit with the Stranglers who deemed the 'Waking Up' hookline to be a tad too close to "No More Heroes". 

Aye, blatant though somehow I still like Elastica, good song that.  Back to the punk though.....  been listening to Outdoor Miner all morning.  Always been one of my favourite songs from that era, along with Germfree Adolescent.  I am lost on a Youtube loop, haha. X

[Finnegan]

Fresh Fruit and Damaged really should have made the top ten. The lack of Agnostic Front, Minor Threat and Bad Religion in the honourable mentions is also upsetting. 

 

But, yknow, you're a seventies guy. It figures!

[SpacedX]

1 hour ago, RumbleFox said:

Aye, blatant though somehow I still like Elastica, good song that.  Back to the punk though.....  been listening to Outdoor Miner all morning.  Always been one of my favourite songs from that era, along with Germfree Adolescent.  I am lost on a Youtube loop, haha. X

I think Chairs Missing is in some ways better than Pink Flag. The latter was more of a statement though.

[RumbleFox]

2 minutes ago, Line-X said:

I think Chairs Missing is in some ways better than Pink Flag. The latter was more of a statement though.

Aye, both great albums.  hard for me to judge either as a "statement" not being around at the time but both great albums.  A lot of good music was produced then (and  lot of sh1te also, haha).  I tend to listen to 60s music (Phil Spector, girl groups, Scott Walker, Gene Pitney, Roy Orbison, doo wop, Buddy Holly, Velvet Underground, Leonard Cohen) and "soul" (Otis Redding, Frankie Lymon, Sam Cooke Dexys, Northern Soul) and a bit of 70s (Sparks, Roxy Music, the mighty Showaddywaddy, haha) more than punk these days but nice to revisit it as I was brought up on it.  I love a lot of the 90s indie stuff (but that is because it was my childhood, a lot of it is utter sh1t) and 80s electro (Human League, OMD etc) but I lost touch with music in about 2005 (I can pinpoint the exact moment - when Arctic Monkeys came on the scene an I just didn't "get" the hype) so have just regressed and can usually be found listening to obscure 60s girl groups like a hipster twa@t!  But this thread is great as have had a day of none stop punk! Currently listening to Rise by PiL (OK, not quite punk but still great).

 

X

[Fox92]

Never mind the bollocks is a superb album. I'd love to have seen Sex Pistols live.

 

Not that much a fan of the Clash. (White Man in Hammersmith Palais is a superb record though). They were middle class; I once saw an interview with John Lydon and he called them fake. Dunno about at the time because I obviously wasn't born, but to me and what I believe in Sex Pistols stand for more than the Clash do.

[Finnegan]

6 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

Never mind the bollocks is a superb album. I'd love to have seen Sex Pistols live.

 

Not that much a fan of the Clash. (White Man in Hammersmith Palais is a superb record though). They were middle class; I once saw an interview with John Lydon and he called them fake. 

 

Lydon's a thick, gobby sellout (Anchor ****ing butter?) who'd have gotten nowhere if he wasn't used as a commercial vehicle by Mclaren and Westwood. 

 

Of course he's resentful of the fact Strummer was a very authentic genius. 

 

Can't argue with the impact of the Sex Pistols (although I wouldn't have Bollocks on any list of top albums on its musical merit alone, it's dreadful, contrived shit) but who actually deserves the credit and what they actually were is well up for debate. 

 

The Greenday of their age. 

[SpacedX]

2 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

Fresh Fruit and Damaged really should have made the top ten. The lack of Agnostic Front, Minor Threat and Bad Religion in the honourable mentions is also upsetting. 

 

But, yknow, you're a seventies guy. It figures!

And punk was a seventies phenomena - so yes it does. 

 

I meant to add Complete Discography - good call, and of the DC scene, Fugazi should have also made the honourable mention list - but it was late and I like my bed. 

 

For you:

 

 

Agnostic Front???? I'd rather listen to the Exploited.

 

Later US "punk" too polished, contrived, manufactured and over produced which is why the rawer Bay Area and DC movements were so ****ing great - whilst New York Hardcore strayed too close to thrash territory imo. 

 

Could have been worse - you could have mentioned Offspring, Sum 41 or Rancid.

[Fox92]

3 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Lydon's a thick, gobby sellout (Anchor ****ing butter?) who'd have gotten nowhere if he wasn't used as a commercial vehicle by Mclaren and Westwood. 

 

Of course he's resentful of the fact Strummer was a very authentic genius. 

 

Can't argue with the impact of the Sex Pistols (although I wouldn't have Bollocks on any list of top albums on its musical merit alone, it's dreadful, contrived shit) but who actually deserves the credit and what they actually were is well up for debate. 

 

The Greenday of their age. 

I didn't really like them before I listened to Never Mind .... (I'm not massive into punk anyway). But I bought the album and loved it. Proper got into them. 

 

Im amazed at how many people they influenced though with just one album. I've heard the likes of Morrissey and Weller talk about how influential Sex Pistols were. Even Noel Gallagher, who is very arrogant, said it was a better album than anything he'd ever done!

[SpacedX]

11 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I wouldn't have Bollocks on any list of top albums on its musical merit alone, it's dreadful, contrived shit) but who actually deserves the credit and what they actually were is well up for debate. 

 

I would - or rather did because I remember the impact it made. Also, the opening riff to Bodies justifies its inclusion alone.

 

Viv Westwood recommended John to Malcolm to front the band because she had noticed this charismatic and good looking lad that used to come into SEX all the time, but he got the wrong one. She meant John Simon Ritchie...let me know how that would have turned out?

 

EDIT to add: Bollocks sounded completely different to how it was intended, particularly by Lydon.

[Finnegan]

8 minutes ago, Line-X said:

And punk was a seventies phenomena - so yes it does. 

 

I meant to add Complete Discography - good call, and of the DC scene, Fugazi should have also made the honourable mention list - but it was late and I like my bed. 

 

For you:

 

 

Agnostic Front???? I'd rather listen to the Exploited.

 

Later US "punk" too polished, contrived, manufactured and over produced which is why the rawer Bay Area and DC movements were so ****ing great - whilst New York Hardcore strayed too close to thrash territory imo. 

 

Could have been worse - you could have mentioned Offspring, Sum 41 or Rancid.

 

You put Rancid in your own list. 

 

[SpacedX]

1 minute ago, Finnegan said:

 

You put Rancid in your own list. 

 

I know, because I do like the first album, but not so much what they came to represent. 

[Finnegan]

Just now, Line-X said:

I know, because I do like the first album, but not so much what they came to represent. 

 

You mean because teenage skateboard kids like them? 

 

Because between the (first) self titled album and Out Came The Wolves (which is superb) I can't say they changed enormously other than the recording quality is cleaner. 

[TiffToff88]

7 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

You mean because teenage skateboard kids like them? 

 

Because between the (first) self titled album and Out Came The Wolves (which is superb) I can't say they changed enormously other than the recording quality is cleaner. 

AGREED!

 

Also, why have NOFX not been mentioned yet??

[Finnegan]

1 minute ago, TiffToff88 said:

AGREED!

 

Also, why have NOFX not been mentioned yet??

 

Alright, you've lost me now.

[Rocket-Ron]

[SpacedX]

25 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

You mean because teenage skateboard kids like them? 

 

Because between the (first) self titled album and Out Came The Wolves (which is superb) I can't say they changed enormously other than the recording quality is cleaner. 

Yes, you're probably right, I admit, because the skater kids like them. I added them belatedly and almost begrudgingly last night because I had to concede that both first and you're right, on reflection, the second album are excellent. That entire Berkeley based scene became dreadful though, hence my disparaging comment this morning lumping them in with the pop-punk bands, which was on reflection a tad unfair. Great 'gotcha' btw Finners, which illustrates how blind and contradictory categorisation and opinionated diatribe can be at times. The music on that eponymous album speaks for itself.

 

American 'punk' was to me defined by the West Coast scene, first wave New York and DC and contrary to my comment about the seventies I've mentioned bands who produced great output in the eighties and nineties. Punk came out of the shit and grey of Detroit and gestated in lower East Side NYC before London stamped a brand on it. Irony being, beyond this, I felt that North America just didn't get it and the compressed, clean around the edges contrived polished production, repackaging and marketing for many of these bands left me cold. 

[Finnegan]

I love a deep and meaningful conversation, I love a good debate, but I always feel that if you're thinking too hard about punk then you're doing it wrong. 

 

I hate being told it was a 70s movement. I hate being told it's dead. I hate hearing that 90s, 00s, bands don't deserve the same legitimacy. 

 

Everyone has an influence, even the New York Dolls, The Ramones, Television et all were just ripping off their own idols. At what point you start and stop calling it punk is irrelevant but being snobbish about it is definitely missing the point. 

 

I grew up with Pennywise, Dropkick Murphys, Rancid, Bad Religion, Anti Flag, Ignite, early AFI, Leftover Crack, Social Distortion etc, all of whom have produced some ****ing brilliant records. 

 

To my ears, a lot of early punk was absolute balls and the good stuff didn't really start until hardcore took off. 

[TiffToff88]

27 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

I love a deep and meaningful conversation, I love a good debate, but I always feel that if you're thinking too hard about punk then you're doing it wrong. 

 

I hate being told it was a 70s movement. I hate being told it's dead. I hate hearing that 90s, 00s, bands don't deserve the same legitimacy. 

 

Everyone has an influence, even the New York Dolls, The Ramones, Television et all were just ripping off their own idols. At what point you start and stop calling it punk is irrelevant but being snobbish about it is definitely missing the point. 

 

I grew up with Pennywise, Dropkick Murphys, Rancid, Bad Religion, Anti Flag, Ignite, early AFI, Leftover Crack, Social Distortion etc, all of whom have produced some ****ing brilliant records. 

 

To my ears, a lot of early punk was absolute balls and the good stuff didn't really start until hardcore took off. 

AGREED

 

But, but... NOFX!!

[Finnegan]

Iol sorry, never really been a NOFX fan. 

 

Their early stuff was musically alright but I've always found Fat Mike's voice intensely annoying. 

 

Dropkick Murphys probably my all time favourite band. Both the early hardcore with Mike and even the more recent more hard rock stuff. Fab. 

[SpacedX]

18 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

I love a deep and meaningful conversation, I love a good debate, but I always feel that if you're thinking too hard about punk then you're doing it wrong. 

 

I hate being told it was a 70s movement. I hate being told it's dead. I hate hearing that 90s, 00s, bands don't deserve the same legitimacy. 

 

Everyone has an influence, even the New York Dolls, The Ramones, Television et all were just ripping off their own idols. At what point you start and stop calling it punk is irrelevant but being snobbish about it is definitely missing the point. 

 

I grew up with Pennywise, Dropkick Murphys, Rancid, Bad Religion, Anti Flag, Ignite, early AFI, Leftover Crack, Social Distortion etc, all of whom have produced some ****ing brilliant records. 

 

To my ears, a lot of early punk was absolute balls and the good stuff didn't really start until hardcore took off. 

Then whatever you do avoid John Savage's "England's Dreaming" book at all costs.

 

Yeah every band has influences, but it's how you draw on, blend and summon them to produce something unique - I dare not say progressive because in its inception punk was supposed to be the antithesis of all that - although I do think ironically one of the angriest and subversive albums of '77 was actually Animals by Floyd!!

 

I don't think defining what punk actually is - or more to the point, isn't is in any way "snobbish" and is no different to your own dismissal of Never Mind The Bollocks on the grounds of it being contrived.  

 

To my own ears, early punk was loose, spontaneous, shabbily produced, cathartic and chaotic. It just exploded out of anger and frustration and burnt out very quickly. Its legacy beyond the immediacy of the bandwagon jumpers, was the impotency of new wave and the depth of the post punk movement. Not to say it died, but with the exception of Bad Religion I don't regard any of the bands you mentioned as particularly relevant...although as we discussed Rancid in particular ushered in a new movement. That doesn't mean they are not relevant to you or many others, or even as you say legitimate, but in my opinion, American hardcore is a closer to metal and certainly not what I'd regard as definitive punk. The movement became an industry, unless of course your name is Penny Rimbaud or Steve Ignorant. 

 

Some mention of NOFX earlier...****ing fair play for never signing for a major. 

 

 

[SpacedX]

10 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

Dropkick Murphys probably my all time favourite band. Both the early hardcore with Mike and even the more recent more hard rock stuff. Fab. 

Great band. 

 

Just inspired me to put on "The Meanest of Times".