Something VERY fishy about 9/11 2001...

[Fez of Mahrez]

After seeing the footage, I very much doubt the story that everybody was told by the American Government and the American media.

I don't understand how you can hold on to lies and ridicule others just for bringing up various valid points that favour a conspiracy.

Europeans are much more critical when it comes to analyzing the attacks and even a large portion of the American population doesn't trust their government any longer.

Don't you think the families of the victims deserve an honest explanation about what really happened that morning?

I think anyone making these sorts of allegations of a genocide on this scale should only deal with facts, not opinions.

I've studied Politics for long enough to know that you can't rule anything out, but I don't think vaguely making a few observations based on watching a video is enough to merit the strength of the position you're taking.

You're free to hold any opinion you want though of course, I just won't be wasting any more time entertaining it! Best of luck.

[MC Prussian]

I think anyone making these sorts of allegations of a genocide on this scale should only deal with facts, not opinions.

I've studied Politics for long enough to know that you can't rule anything out, but I don't think vaguely making a few observations based on watching a video is enough to merit the strength of the position you're taking.

You're free to hold any opinion you want though of course, I just won't be wasting any more time entertaining it! Best of luck.

I personally think the use of the term "genocide" is inappropriate in this context. I suggest you - just like anybody else who thinks making fun of people is better than having a serious debate - take some time, download the DVD, rent it or buy it. Watch and then judge others.

And if you think operating with facts solves the problem, then I'd very much like to hear your facts.

Check Wikipedia for the definition of "genocide".

What did you study again?

[shen]

The scale of a conspiracy would never reach such a grand size as you're suggesing Swiss. But what cannot be counter-argued is that the US Government and the US medias HAVE misinformed people and have done so on purpose! The Al-Qaeida links came suspiciously fast (and on another note, I think all that with Al-Qaeida is a cover-up. In my opinion it was all pre-constructed and ready to use in case of a scenario like 9/11. I'm not even convinced that Al-Qaeida even exists! But that's another story). But while there are still many question marks left and many dubious official claims and statements, an internal conspiracy with such consequences is a bit over the top to say the least.

[The People's Hero]

If it's so obvious that it's all a conspiracy, just from watching some easily obtainable footage, why are you such a lone voice?

We are all reasonable people here. Many of us would like to believe we are intelligent. Do you really think that we have anything to gain by denying it?

In my opinion, you LIKE to be different. If we all said, I think it's a conspiracy, you'd jump to the other side of the fence and continue to argue about it from there.

[MC Prussian]

If it's so obvious that it's all a conspiracy, just from watching some easily obtainable footage, why are you such a lone voice?

We are all reasonable people here. Many of us would like to believe we are intelligent. Do you really think that we have anything to gain by denying it?

In my opinion, you LIKE to be different. If we all said, I think it's a conspiracy, you'd jump to the other side of the fence and continue to argue about it from there.

When was the first time you heard about that footage? On here, just a couple of days ago. Btw, it is not that easy to purchase, as the DVD is excluded from regular sale in the States.

It is a fact that all the events on 9/11 - the four "plane crashes" - are connected. That's what the American Government claimed, too. But since the two incidents with the Pentagon and Flight 93 were made up and all crashes have something to do with each other, that means the official story is a complete lie. An operation of that size takes a vast amount of preparation and insider information. The American Government, Intelligence and Military were directly involved in the incidents. Challenge that fact.

Yes. It must be hard to believe that the WTC incidents involved the participation of the American Government, Intelligence and Military. But then again:

• The planes were not commercial, but military (there are eye witnesses to confirm that). Again, watch the DVD footage for further explanation.
  
• There were explosions within the buildings (described by several NY firefighters).
  
• There was smoke coming out of at least one building connected to the towers after they were hit. Where did that smoke come from if not from a separate explosion within?
  

I'd also like to know what JoBeck as a New Yorker has to say about it.

[The People's Hero]

Fair play, I haven't seen the footage so I can't really take any further part in the discussion.

[MC Prussian]

Just as a general reminder:

It is not my intention to convince people whether my view is the right one.

All I say is that after watching that DVD, I was quite shocked.

Do the same and let me know what you think of it.

[Head Honcho]

The scale of a conspiracy would never reach such a grand size as you're suggesing Swiss. But what cannot be counter-argued is that the US Government and the US medias HAVE misinformed people and have done so on purpose! The Al-Qaeida links came suspiciously fast (and on another note, I think all that with Al-Qaeida is a cover-up. In my opinion it was all pre-constructed and ready to use in case of a scenario like 9/11. I'm not even convinced that Al-Qaeida even exists! But that's another story). But while there are still many question marks left and many dubious official claims and statements, an internal conspiracy with such consequences is a bit over the top to say the least.

I've heard it all now

[MC Prussian]

I've heard it all now

It is very much possible.

Have you ever met a member of Al-Quaeda personally?

All we know is what we have been told by the media.

[davieG]

Just as a general reminder:

It is not my intention to convince people whether my view is the right one.

All I say is that after watching that DVD, I was quite shocked.

Do the same and let me know what you think of it.

How can you be anymore certain that what is on the video is any more 'real' than what the US Government are peddling.

There are all sorts of reasons why the government could lie, for instance mayybe they were military planes stolen form the US airforce but the government doesn't want to admit it. Maybe the internal explosions were planted by the 'terrorist' but again maybe the government doesn't want to admit that either, Maybe the Pentagon attack was a missile. Lots of maybes. Hiding/misleading information could be for the reasons you're saying but it could also be to cover up flaws in their defences or for security reasons.

I've an open mind, I've not looked at the DVD but I did watch a satallite programme on the subject, I don't dismiss it but neither do I accept it.

[Head Honcho]

It is very much possible.

Have you ever met a member of Al-Quaeda personally?

All we know is what we have been told by the media.

Rubbish

[MC Prussian]

Rubbish

Then so be it.

[Gamesmaster]

This only supports the things I have seen on the DVD.

(Looking at the blown-out windows in the entry hall:)"Damage was already done." Says it all.

it sure does explain something, but we still think your a cuckoo

[MC Prussian]

it sure does explain something, but we still think your a cuckoo

[Gamesmaster]

that footage was cool tho swiss ( the one i posted) but i couldnt understand why it stopped before the building came down. was it real, who knows.

[Rincewind]

Is this a major leg pull?

Going around with a parrot on my shoulder saying 'Ah, Jim lad' is bad enough but I sure aint gonna go about on a plank of wood with wheels on.

[breadandcheese]

Swissfox, I've got some magic beans that will protect you from George Bush, bird flu (which I actually believe is a chemical weapon employed by the Pentagon to wipe out Asia, only its got out of hand). Would you like some? Only £9.99.

You ask why this DVD is not sold in America. It's a good thing its not because I do not have much faith in the highly intelligent conspiracy loving American public to not watch this and think, "hmmm, what utter boll*cks."

All these facts you point to have easy explanations. Here are some answers to the common questions.

Why did the firemen hear controlled explosions in the towers? Firstly, how did they differentiate between controlled and uncontrolled, and secondly, in a fire, things heat up, expand, put things under pressure and can then explode. All manner of material was burning uncontrollably at a very high heat. It would not be uncommon for explosions to occur in such conditions.

Why was there no plane debris at the Pentagon? Why did it look like missile damage? A plane travelling at high speed with a full fueltank is in effect a missile. It is therefore not surprising the damage looks like missile damage. With the vast heat produced from burning Kerosene, most of the plane's material would have disintegrated to leave only a small amount of ash and maybe a few molten metals (those which hadn't vapourised). This explains why the towers collapsed. The steel supporting the skyscrapers melted in the intense heat, such that the buildings collapsed. It is all simple Physics. I suggest you read a science book based on fact than watch a dvd by a "defence expert" who is probably about as versed as you and I.

Why did George Bush talk about watching the first plane hit the tower? He is an idiot. It is not the first public speaking gaffe he has made. He clearly meant the second plane.

With any conspiracy, you have to ask who is to gain from such a plot? I cannot see one winner.

With regards how intelligence knew it was Al-Qaeda so quickly. I'll tell you how, it was not bloody difficult. I sat watching my TV thinking, "Who would do this?" Reactions were a) an Iranian backed terrorist group or b) Al Qaeda (a group who had a history of either devestating or audacious attacks on US targets with large loss of life e.g. US embassy in Kenya, USS Cole in 2000). Also, it helps that there was wind that Al-Qaeda were plotting to attack US interests. Unfortunately, there was no specific intelligence and nobody suspected that it would be something so grand.

All this fantasy boll*cks detracts from the truth and is probably more closely related to a hatred and distrust of American policy born out of a European inferiority complex.

[IDEA OR IKEA]

Swissfox, I've got some magic beans that will protect you from George Bush, bird flu (which I actually believe is a chemical weapon employed by the Pentagon to wipe out Asia, only its got out of hand). Would you like some? Only £9.99.

You ask why this DVD is not sold in America. It's a good thing its not because I do not have much faith in the highly intelligent conspiracy loving American public to not watch this and think, "hmmm, what utter boll*cks."

All these facts you point to have easy explanations. Here are some answers to the common questions.

Why did the firemen hear controlled explosions in the towers? Firstly, how did they differentiate between controlled and uncontrolled, and secondly, in a fire, things heat up, expand, put things under pressure and can then explode. All manner of material was burning uncontrollably at a very high heat. It would not be uncommon for explosions to occur in such conditions.

Why was there no plane debris at the Pentagon? Why did it look like missile damage? A plane travelling at high speed with a full fueltank is in effect a missile. It is therefore not surprising the damage looks like missile damage. With the vast heat produced from burning Kerosene, most of the plane's material would have disintegrated to leave only a small amount of ash and maybe a few molten metals (those which hadn't vapourised). This explains why the towers collapsed. The steel supporting the skyscrapers melted in the intense heat, such that the buildings collapsed. It is all simple Physics. I suggest you read a science book based on fact than watch a dvd by a "defence expert" who is probably about as versed as you and I.

Why did George Bush talk about watching the first plane hit the tower? He is an idiot. It is not the first public speaking gaffe he has made. He clearly meant the second plane.

With any conspiracy, you have to ask who is to gain from such a plot? I cannot see one winner.

With regards how intelligence knew it was Al-Qaeda so quickly. I'll tell you how, it was not bloody difficult. I sat watching my TV thinking, "Who would do this?" Reactions were a) an Iranian backed terrorist group or b) Al Qaeda (a group who had a history of either devestating or audacious attacks on US targets with large loss of life e.g. US embassy in Kenya, USS Cole in 2000). Also, it helps that there was wind that Al-Qaeda were plotting to attack US interests. Unfortunately, there was no specific intelligence and nobody suspected that it would be something so grand.

All this fantasy boll*cks detracts from the truth and is probably more closely related to a hatred and distrust of American policy born out of a European inferiority complex.

Well put

[Rincewind]

Everything points to Swiss being cuckoo, but I still think there is a reason for his sudden conversion to madness.

[breadandcheese]

Everything points to Swiss being cuckoo, but I still think there is a reason for his sudden conversion to madness.

Too much swiss cheese before bed?

[IDEA OR IKEA]

Too much swiss cheese before bed?

Innit

[MC Prussian]

Swissfox, I've got some magic beans that will protect you from George Bush, bird flu (which I actually believe is a chemical weapon employed by the Pentagon to wipe out Asia, only its got out of hand). Would you like some? Only £9.99.

You ask why this DVD is not sold in America. It's a good thing its not because I do not have much faith in the highly intelligent conspiracy loving American public to not watch this and think, "hmmm, what utter boll*cks."

All these facts you point to have easy explanations. Here are some answers to the common questions.

Why did the firemen hear controlled explosions in the towers? Firstly, how did they differentiate between controlled and uncontrolled, and secondly, in a fire, things heat up, expand, put things under pressure and can then explode. All manner of material was burning uncontrollably at a very high heat. It would not be uncommon for explosions to occur in such conditions.

Why was there no plane debris at the Pentagon? Why did it look like missile damage? A plane travelling at high speed with a full fueltank is in effect a missile. It is therefore not surprising the damage looks like missile damage. With the vast heat produced from burning Kerosene, most of the plane's material would have disintegrated to leave only a small amount of ash and maybe a few molten metals (those which hadn't vapourised). This explains why the towers collapsed. The steel supporting the skyscrapers melted in the intense heat, such that the buildings collapsed. It is all simple Physics. I suggest you read a science book based on fact than watch a dvd by a "defence expert" who is probably about as versed as you and I.

Why did George Bush talk about watching the first plane hit the tower? He is an idiot. It is not the first public speaking gaffe he has made. He clearly meant the second plane.

With any conspiracy, you have to ask who is to gain from such a plot? I cannot see one winner.

With regards how intelligence knew it was Al-Qaeda so quickly. I'll tell you how, it was not bloody difficult. I sat watching my TV thinking, "Who would do this?" Reactions were a) an Iranian backed terrorist group or b) Al Qaeda (a group who had a history of either devestating or audacious attacks on US targets with large loss of life e.g. US embassy in Kenya, USS Cole in 2000). Also, it helps that there was wind that Al-Qaeda were plotting to attack US interests. Unfortunately, there was no specific intelligence and nobody suspected that it would be something so grand.

All this fantasy boll*cks detracts from the truth and is probably more closely related to a hatred and distrust of American policy born out of a European inferiority complex.

Firemen & The Explosions: The firefighters clearly stated that they heard controlled explosions, level by level. Watch the DVD and decide for yourself.

The Pentagon Plane: The hole on the outer surface was too small to be caused by a plane. Furthermore, TV footage shows that the outer facade was still intact before it collapsed and there were no plane parts lying around. And yes, I do know something about Physics. Watch the DVD and decide for yourself.

And if you don't see a winner out of this, then I can name you at least two: the American Military and Intelligence who received a blank cheque to sell and test their new technology and weaponry under the approval of the American Government. You didn't think of that, did you?

Oh, so it is easy to blame it on Al-Quaeda? There are numerous other terrorist organisations, even within the States. The reason for this sudden "name and shame"? Where does All-Quaeda operate from? Afghanistan, home of vast oil and drug resources...! Plus, the American Government knew the head of that organisation personally: Osama Bin Laden had been trained by the CIA.

And George W. Bush clearly knew what he was talking about. Even if he has an erratic behaviour, there was a private screen for him and his entourage inside the school. It was all planned.

Inferiority complex? Now, THAT'S bollocks! And then you call me a part of a "I hate America" movement. Until you haven't seen the DVD, I suggest you keep a low profile and stop accusing others of being "cuckoo".

[MC Prussian]

Too much swiss cheese before bed?

I'm not that much a fan of cheese, tbh.

[Gamesmaster]

may i just defend the cuckoo for a min (i wont be long). hes asked us all to view this film and yet no one has, he said that in his first post.

also, swiss has explained that the reason the buildings came down was due to bombs (is that the right phrase swiss?) because it wasnt hot enough for the buildings metal to melt.

cuckoo costume off, this conspiracy is so far fetched its stupid im still downloading that docu mr cuckoo, its taking a long time.

[Gamesmaster]

well well well, ive just watched the docu, and its very very interesting.

the twin towers:

one eye witness explained the 2nd plane as "a cargo plane, it definately had a blue logo on the front". another woman cliamed, "that was not an american airline". a fox news employee said "there was definately a circlier blue logo on the front of the plane".

was it a commercial flight?

in slow motion, the docu shows/explains an explosion INSIDE each building just before the planes hit the towers.

when you look closely, you can see something rather big attached to the bottom of the plane. certainly nothing a commercial plane would carry. have a look?

when you watch the plane arriving at the building in ultra slow motion, you can see something being launched at the building, then creating the explosion. a rocket?

after the buildings collapsed, firefighters were asked about it, and they described it as "explosions one after the other, as each flooor came down, as if they had planned to take down the building".

building 7:

BEFORE either of the 2 towers had colapsed, "building 7" fell to the ground, why? no plane had hit it. CNN are the ONLY media outlet to ever have shown it live, and only once. why not again?

this could explain the $7B insurance policy, that it was blown up deliberately.

the pentagon:

the dimension of the crash where the pentagon was supposedly hit, is 73ft high, 65ft in width.

the supposed plane, a boeing 757 is 124ft and 10inc wide. from nose to tail it is 155ft 3inc, and in height, its 44ft 6inc.

how did a plane that big, only create a hole 65ft wide? the roof and upper floors were still visibly intact. how can this be with a 44ft in height plane hitting the building from a height angle?

on the left hand side of the inner part building, there is no serious damage, nothing burnt. a computer monitor 2 feet away completely untouched, a book, inc`s away from the edge, but no burnt marks whatso ever. yet were led to believe that a commercial plane melts through steel. an expert claims that the 800 gallons of fuel wouldve burnt everything.

pictures of an explosion occuring there, were released some days ago, but with the date 12 september 2001, time 1737pm. how is this possible?

there is not one single picture showing any aspect of a plane. surely the wings would be about?

if this is was made up by the US government (and i believe it is), why? now we have the prospect of i.d. cards etc, is it to keep control of us, by saying, them the terrorists are coming to get us.

view it, its facinating!